Continuation Part 14: Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito

[Methos]

It can always be improved.

00:41:49 Amanda calls unidentified person (local number) (20 seconds) - Massei Report pg 345

The number called (+39-329-3473230) belonged to "Internet Cafe Man" Spyros Gatsios.
See: http://www.amandaknoxcase.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/AK_Phone_Traffic.pdf

 

[Grinder]

Actually, I have no problem wither it. In fact, I think it is interesting. I also wouldn't say that a "fools errand" is a personal attack. It is basically saying that the action is pointless. I certainly wouldn't take it personally.

You rarely ever see them even attempt to put together a time line and if the do, they abandon aspects of the prosecution case. It seems as if they are abandoning Curatolo... (good idea, he's worthless)and ignoring the ear witnesses, Naruto, and of course, the digestion.

I thought it was clear by my starting the second paragraph "seriously" that I was just joking about the fools errand.

They don't drop either of them, they just make them fit their timeline by changing the testimony as Massei did. The Massei change should be one of the top points at how ridiculous the Italian judicial system is. The trial that convicted them for murder at 11:30 had a witness that said they were there until just before midnight when HE left.

Re: digestion Dan O perhaps you could add when Meredith may have eaten to your timeline.

 

[Strozzi]

Mignini refers to police suspending the recording of the interrogation

This is a must watch:

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2mk1uz

I just watched again Mignini's video-recorded presentation to an audience explaining in Mignini's words how Amanda's confession and calunia came about on the night of Nov 5/6 2007, and blaming Amanda. The English translation of Mignini's comments at minute 8:50 in the video-recording says the police "suspended the recording".

The statement in English implies that the police were recording the interrogation, although it is possible that this is a mistranslation from Italian to English of what Mignini is saying. I would like to ask an Italian speaker to please listen to Mignini speaking at 8:50 minutes and confirm if he in fact is referring to a recording of the interrogation.

 

[LondonJohn]

They're getting bits of it...... slowly..... even though they don't even know they are

One of the idiots has just (correctly) pointed out that in human blood, there is a vastly higher proportion of red blood cells (which contain no DNA) than white blood cells (which do contain DNA). In fact, in any drop of blood there will typically be around 800-1000 red blood cells present for every white blood cell present (this commentator said 400, but at least he's roughly in the right ballpark.....).

And, as he correctly pointed out, this means that with certain small blood stains, it's not uncommon to be unable to get a positive DNA result, since there may well be very few DNA-containing white blood cells present.

Now.......... I wonder how long it might take this commentator (or any of the other idiots) to figure out the logical companion to this: that if you get a positive DNA test without a positive test for blood, you can be (to all practical purposes) certain that this was not blood DNA (since if there were sufficient white blood cells present to yield a positive DNA result, there should be many thousand red blood cells also present to give a positive test for blood).

And then how long will it take the idiots to apply this new-found piece of scientific deduction to the issue of the DNA on Sollecito's kitchen knife?

I'm not confident the the penny will drop. But you never know

 

[LondonJohn]

I just watched again Mignini's video-recorded presentation to an audience explaining in Mignini's words how Amanda's confession and calunia came about on the night of Nov 5/6 2007, and blaming Amanda. The English translation of Mignini's comments at minute 8:50 in the video-recording says the police "suspended the recording".

The statement in English implies that the police were recording the interrogation, although it is possible that this is a mistranslation from Italian to English of what Mignini is saying. I would like to ask an Italian speaker to please listen to Mignini speaking at 8:50 minutes and confirm if he in fact is referring to a recording of the interrogation.

I think this may have been covered already. IIRC, the view is that Mignini's choice of words is ambiguous but could also apply to any sort of written "notarising" rather than an electronic recording.

 

[Grinder]

They're getting bits of it...... slowly..... even though they don't even know they are

One of the idiots has just (correctly) pointed out that in human blood, there is a vastly higher proportion of red blood cells (which contain no DNA) than white blood cells (which do contain DNA). In fact, in any drop of blood there will typically be around 800-1000 red blood cells present for every white blood cell present (this commentator said 400, but at least he's roughly in the right ballpark.....).

And, as he correctly pointed out, this means that with certain small blood stains, it's not uncommon to be unable to get a positive DNA result, since there may well be very few DNA-containing white blood cells present.

Now.......... I wonder how long it might take this commentator (or any of the other idiots) to figure out the logical companion to this: that if you get a positive DNA test without a positive test for blood, you can be (to all practical purposes) certain that this was not blood DNA (since if there were sufficient white blood cells present to yield a positive DNA result, there should be many thousand red blood cells also present to give a positive test for blood).

And then how long will it take the idiots to apply this new-found piece of scientific deduction to the issue of the DNA on Sollecito's kitchen knife?

I'm not confident the the penny will drop. But you never know

How many white cells in 100 picograms of blood? I know it didn't test positive for blood.

If that 100 picogram number is the sample size Steffi claimed was there then that's 1/580,000 of a grain of salt. I think it important to remind or inform them how tiny an amount we are talking about and that yes DNA can fly.

 

[Grinder]

I think this may have been covered already. IIRC, the view is that Mignini's choice of words is ambiguous but could also apply to any sort of written "notarising" rather than an electronic recording.

I think he goes on to say something about recording his later spontaneous convo with AK meaning writing it down.

 

[Grinder]

One poster from the otehr side wrote:

If that was Sollecito's car at the cottage then I think he would want to remove it as soon as possible afterwards, if not immediately. I really don't see him as risking an interval involving a big clean up back at his apartment. If he did get Meredith's blood on the inside then the "supercleaning" missed two blood traces which forensics spotted but which turned out not to be human.

It could however be that he simply got lucky with the car in the same way that Guede got lucky with his apartment. Remember that forensics did not find any traces of Meredith's blood at Guede's apartment despite that we are now required to believe that it was Guede who stabbed Meredith through an artery and left bloody shoeprints on his way out. That being so he must have headed straight home and then stripped and showered before heading off to the disco. Maybe a clean up at his apartment occurred afterwards but it's strange that forensics found nothing.

Strange that no blood was found at Rudi's but not strange that nothing was found at Raf's.

 

[LondonJohn]

How many white cells in 100 picograms of blood? I know it didn't test positive for blood.

If that 100 picogram number is the sample size Steffi claimed was there then that's 1/580,000 of a grain of salt. I think it important to remind or inform them how tiny an amount we are talking about and that yes DNA can fly.

Well......

There are up to around 10,000 white blood cells per microlitre of blood. A microlitre of blood has mass of approx 1mg. So 10,000/mg.

In 100 picograms of blood therefore, there's actually a very very small likelihood of finding even a single white blood cell. The ratio works out at 0.001 white blood cells per 100 picograms of blood!

 

[anglolawyer]

At this juncture, I would like to make the point once more that if Stefanoni really has scraped 4 or 5 white blood cells from the blade then she must have also sampled 3-5,000 red blood cells too. That seems quite a lot and certainly enough to be able to put the sample under a microscope and actually look at, classify and photograph them, a step she mysteriously omitted, but which is consistent with their having been no such cells and her being a liar.

 

[Grinder]

At this juncture, I would like to make the point once more that if Stefanoni really has scraped 4 or 5 white blood cells from the blade then she must have also sampled 3-5,000 red blood cells too. That seems quite a lot and certainly enough to be able to put the sample under a microscope and actually look at, classify and photograph them, a step she mysteriously omitted, but which is consistent with their having been no such cells and her being a liar.

I don't trust the DNA on the blade at all. Having said that, is it possible that the "find" was something with DNA that didn't contain blood?

Regardless, the lab methods were not of a standard and quality that could be accepted, but I'm just curious if it would be possible.

 

[anglolawyer]

I don't trust the DNA on the blade at all. Having said that, is it possible that the "find" was something with DNA that didn't contain blood?

Regardless, the lab methods were not of a standard and quality that could be accepted, but I'm just curious if it would be possible.

I wouldn't know. She described whatever 'it' was as 'presumed haematic substance' but didn't stick it on a slide and check it out. Ordinarily, if you stick a knife in someone's throat I imagine you get blood on it. So there's that.

 

[Chris_Halkides]

red blood cells are very rich in hemoglobin

At this juncture, I would like to make the point once more that if Stefanoni really has scraped 4 or 5 white blood cells from the blade then she must have also sampled 3-5,000 red blood cells too. That seems quite a lot and certainly enough to be able to put the sample under a microscope and actually look at, classify and photograph them, a step she mysteriously omitted, but which is consistent with their having been no such cells and her being a liar.

3-5,000 red blood cells is about one hundred fold more than one needs to get a positive result a TMB test (25 cells per microliter). I don't have the numbers handy, but I suspect it is also enough to do a HemaTrace test.

 

[anglolawyer]

3-5,000 red blood cells is about one hundred fold more than one needs to get a positive result a TMB test (25 cells per microliter). I don't have the numbers handy, but I suspect it is also enough to do a HemaTrace test.

Thank you, Chris. I felt unqualified to make that further point so I am glad you showed up.

 

[Strozzi]

Mignini referred to police interrogation recording being suspended

I think he goes on to say something about recording his later spontaneous convo with AK meaning writing it down.

Mignini was not referring to later when he met with AK. I believe Mignini referred to AK having said sufficient compromising information that the recording was suspended. Is he deliberately referring to a police recording which was stopped at that point? Maybe Mignini knows something we don't about a recording being stopped.

This is something I hope an Italian-speaker will listen to to see if the English translation is correct.

This is the link to the video of Mignini speaking. Mignini's statement that the recording was suspended is at 8:50 minutes on the video.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2mk1uz

 

[Grinder]

Mignini was not referring to later when he met with AK. I believe Mignini referred to AK having said sufficient compromising information that the recording was suspended. Is he deliberately referring to a police recording which was stopped at that point? Maybe Mignini knows something we don't about a recording being stopped.

This is something I hope an Italian-speaker will listen to to see if the English translation is correct.

This is the link to the video of Mignini speaking. Mignini's statement that the recording was suspended is at 8:50 minutes on the video.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2mk1uz

At 9:50 Mignini says he recorded what she said in her spontaneous statement to him. He uses the same term, at least as translated.

 

[Strozzi]

At 9:50 Mignini says he recorded what she said in her spontaneous statement to him. He uses the same term, at least as translated.

When he says "recorded" in Italian, is he saying transcribed or audiorecorded?

Was his "recording" made available to the defense? Is it part of the file?

If he did record it, where did he get the budget funds?

 

[MichaelB]

That guys translations aren't accurate.

 

[codyjuneau]

How many white cells in 100 picograms of blood? I know it didn't test positive for blood.

If that 100 picogram number is the sample size Steffi claimed was there then that's 1/580,000 of a grain of salt. I think it important to remind or inform them how tiny an amount we are talking about and that yes DNA can fly.

.
Hi Grinder.

I know you are referring to Stefanoni's (or was it Commodi's) statement, but I think float is a better and more accurate word, which is probably why she used 'fly' instead.

Most dust floating in the air is not visible to humans under normal lighting conditions, however it does become visible when a beam of sunlight pierces a darkened room, as most of us have observed. There is often lots of it, at least in my home.

Cody
.

 

[codyjuneau]

One poster from the otehr side wrote:

If that was Sollecito's car at the cottage then I think he would want to remove it as soon as possible afterwards, if not immediately. I really don't see him as risking an interval involving a big clean up back at his apartment. If he did get Meredith's blood on the inside then the "supercleaning" missed two blood traces which forensics spotted but which turned out not to be human.

It could however be that he simply got lucky with the car in the same way that Guede got lucky with his apartment. Remember that forensics did not find any traces of Meredith's blood at Guede's apartment despite that we are now required to believe that it was Guede who stabbed Meredith through an artery and left bloody shoeprints on his way out. That being so he must have headed straight home and then stripped and showered before heading off to the disco. Maybe a clean up at his apartment occurred afterwards but it's strange that forensics found nothing.

Strange that no blood was found at Rudi's but not strange that nothing was found at Raf's.

.
I also think it is strange that blood was not found at Rudi's place, unless Rudy cleaned up downstairs before going home. There was blood there, wet sandals, a chair by the shower, some kind of curtain/rod on the floor in the kitchen, maybe a knife print according to RWVBWL and other strange things. I wonder if Rudy cleaned up and borrowed some clean clothes? I suspect Rudy knew that the boys were all gone for the weekend.

Cody
.