Can one disprove Jesus' resurrection?

[poblob14]

It says that he came from somewhere else in another form, became a man, died, resumed that form, then returned as another human which he had done previously, though previously his body hadn't perished.

Wait, what?

 

[tsig]

I'm suggesting that if you want to know what the Bible says look at what it says, just as if you want to know what science says look at the books of science.

If you say that Jesus was a zombie on a stick that doesn't come from the Bible, if you say that his dead body was resurrected it doesn't say that either. It says that he came from somewhere else in another form, became a man, died, resumed that form, then returned as another human which he had done previously, though previously his body hadn't perished. His body was in the grave, his other form was in the abyss, the latter was resurrected.

It's a bit more complicated than a zombie on a stick.

The Devil wrote the bible to confuse mankind.

 

[Slowvehicle]

You would think that when either a believer or a skeptic becomes acquainted with an issue, especially if the issue is important or in question, the proper methodology would be, like the Beroeans, (Acts 17:12-15) to check the facts, as, in this case, given by the Bible. Unfortunately that isn't the case. The Believers believe blind and the skeptics follow their lead.

Most of the responses in this thread so far are a demonstration of that. Set aside for the sake of integrity the intellectually retarded knee jerk reaction and look at the facts as presented in the Bible in order to determine accurate knowledge.

If you do that you will be confronted with the following questions, which the Bible will address.

"Intellectually retarded knee-jerk reaction" is an...odd...(not to say, uncivil) phrase, leveled by one purporting to present the contradictory claims of the inconsistently-recorded, sectarially-redacted, and contentiously-canonized, collection of non-eyewitness accounts collected from at least four major sources into at least two major traditions, for multiple different reasons, that has come to be referred to as "the bible", as "facts".

1. Jesus existed before he was a man on Earth, as a higher form of intelligent life. Even before the Earth, heaven and universe were created.

There is absolutely no evidence of any "higher form of intelligent life". Feel free to present such evidence, remembering that the claims in the bible are not evidence of the veracity of the claims in the bible.

There is no evidence that the universe was "created". Feel free to present such evidence, remembering that the claims in the bible are not evidence of the veracity of the claims in the bible.

2. He had come to Earth in the past as Jehovah God's Word, or spokesman, at various times in the form of various men.

Again, your clams are not supported by the first scintilla of evidence, even so far of the mere existence of "jehovah". Feel free to present such evidence, remembering that the claims in the bible are not evidence of the veracity of the claims in the bible.

3. Jesus' specific bodily sacrifice was for one time only, and having sacrificed that physical body he couldn't have it back.

Perhaps you are unaware of the weakness of basing an entire argument upon special pleading.

4. The angels took that body away.

Not a single shred of evidence for this superstition exists. Feel free to present such evidence, remembering that the claims in the bible are not evidence of the veracity of the claims in the bible.

5. Some of Jesus followers didn't recognize him at first.

I wonder what you think this unevidenced claim is supposed to mean.

The current skeptical criticism of "a zombie on a stick" isn't very accurate.

Unlike the "son of" the "creator" existing "as a higher form of life" and being "unable" to keep "his" "body"...

I guess.

How do you feel about the presence of horses in the cultures of the pre-Colombian Americas?

 

[Slowvehicle]

Is that a fact? Present the alleged passage and I will demonstrate where you are wrong.

You could start with the entirety of the plagiarized (and contradictory) narrative regarding ƴ^e fludde...

 

[Slowvehicle]

Correct. Those are the answers which the Bible addresses. My poor editing is at fault.

All of those claims were made in the Bible. They effect the nature of the criticisms being made.

I see. You do not, in fact, understand the inherently fallacious nature of circular argument, and special pleading.

Perhaps you should educate yourself: https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/

 

[Slowvehicle]

I'm suggesting that if you want to know what the Bible says look at what it says, just as if you want to know what science says look at the books of science.

Inherently false.

To understand science, look to facts. Do the experiments. Make the observations. Test the conclusions.

If you say that Jesus was a zombie on a stick that doesn't come from the Bible, if you say that his dead body was resurrected it doesn't say that either. It says that he came from somewhere else in another form, became a man, died, resumed that form, then returned as another human which he had done previously, though previously his body hadn't perished. His body was in the grave, his other form was in the abyss, the latter was resurrected.

It's a bit more complicated than a zombie on a stick.

...but supported by not one single skerrick more evidence, even if one accepts your interpretation as correct.

 

[Leumas]

...

If you do that you will be confronted with the following questions, which the Bible will address.

1. Jesus existed before he was a man on Earth, as a higher form of intelligent life. Even before the Earth, heaven and universe were created.

2. He had come to Earth in the past as Jehovah God's Word, or spokesman, at various times in the form of various men.

3. Jesus' specific bodily sacrifice was for one time only, and having sacrificed that physical body he couldn't have it back.

4. The angels took that body away.

5. Some of Jesus followers didn't recognize him at first.

The current skeptical criticism of "a zombie on a stick" isn't very accurate.

I will tell you exactly what your above hermeneutic poppycock is ..... it is nothing more than

intellectually retarded knee jerk reaction and look at the facts claptrap as presented in the Bible in order to determine accurate knowledge deluded wishful thinking.

 

[Ladewig]

With that in mind, are there still more proofs that the Resurrection didn't occur?

The forum does not have any rules that pertain directly to polls.
However, in the interests of efficiency and completeness, many posters follow the suggestion that every poll have a "Planet X" option. This selection serves as a catch-all for people who, for one reason or another, do not find any of the offered selections correct enough to choose. Also, the Planet X option is chosen when posters want to show that the poll is inherently flawed in some manner.

It is the desired option for posters who want to express one or more of the following ideas.

- the question (or options) is too biased to give meaningful results.
- the options are too limited to give meaningful results.
- the question, as it is phrased, is unanswerable.
- the question, as it is phrased, contains logical errors.
- the answer I want to give is not listed.
- the question is too poorly worded to give useful results.
- the question is based on a poorly-constructed hypothetical.
- the question assumes facts not in evidence.

The above list is not complete. Some posters will not even vote in polls that do not have the Planet X option even if their desired option is present.

 

[Leumas]

Is that a fact? Present the alleged passage and I will demonstrate where you are wrong.

All of those claims were made in the Bible. They effect the nature of the criticisms being made.

...
If you say that Jesus was a zombie on a stick that doesn't come from the Bible, if you say that his dead body was resurrected it doesn't say that either. It says that he came from somewhere else in another form, became a man, died, resumed that form, then returned as another human which he had done previously, though previously his body hadn't perished. His body was in the grave, his other form was in the abyss, the latter was resurrected.
....

I will tell you exactly what your above finagling is ..... it is nothing more than

intellectually retarded knee jerk reaction and look at the facts claptrap as presented in the Bible in order to determine accurate knowledge deluded wishful thinking.

 

[Leumas]

...
It says that he came from somewhere else in another form, became a man, died, resumed that form, then returned as another human which he had done previously, though previously his body hadn't perished. His body was in the grave, his other form was in the abyss, the latter was resurrected.
....

Can you cite biblical verses that say the above highlighted stuff?

 

[Leumas]

The Devil wrote the bible to confuse mankind.

Evidence, please?

Can you prove otherwise? Can you prove it was not?

 

[Manopolus]

You know, to be fair, I think that almost everyone who believes that Jesus raised from the dead also acknowledges that this would violate the laws of physics. In fact, I don't think that's controversial.

I'm pretty sure that violating the laws of physics constitutes disproof, doesn't it? If not, it's a pretty heavy weight of evidence against it. From a scientific perspective, it's quite a bit more than enough to discredit the notion, even if you don't use the word "proof" per se.

 

[abaddon]

Evidence, please?

It contradicts itself. In fact, that is the only consistent thing about the bible. Genesis to Revelation, Wall to wall contradictions.

 

[Slowvehicle]

Evidence, please?

Oh, that is humorous, given your other posts!

 

[Leumas]

What would you accept as proof?

Intentionally lying and using any ploys and subterfuge for the sake of Jesus is an OLD custom.

Jesus (a.k.a. YHWH) started it

• 2 Chronicles 18:22: Now therefore, behold, the LORD hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of these thy prophets
• Ezekiel 14:9: And if the prophet be deceived when he hath spoken a thing, I the LORD have deceived that prophet
• Ezekiel 20:25-26: Wherefore I gave them also statutes that were not good, and judgments whereby they should not live; And I polluted them in their own gifts, in that they caused to pass through [the fire] all that openeth the womb, that I might make them desolate, to the end that they might know that I [am] the LORD.

Paul continued with it

• 1 Corinthians 9:20-23:To the Jews I became like a Jew, to win the Jews. To those under the law I became like one under the law (though I myself am not under the law), so as to win those under the law. To those not having the law I became like one not having the law (though I am not free from God's law but am under Christ's law), so as to win those not having the law. To the weak I became weak, to win the weak. I have become all things to all people so that by all possible means I might save some. I do all this for the sake of the gospel, that I may share in its blessings."

Eusebius, Emperor Constantine's bishop, was one of the earliest active advocates of it

• How it may be lawful and fitting to use falsehood as a medicine, and for the benefit of those who want to be deceived.

And Martin Luther the founder of Protestantism sanctified it

• What harm would it do, if a man told a good strong lie for the sake of the good and for the Christian church ... a lie out of necessity, a useful lie, a helpful lie, such lies would not be against God, he would accept them.

Martin Luther also explained why reason is not something most theists value

• Reason is the greatest enemy that faith has; it never comes to the aid of spiritual things, but - more frequently than not - struggles against the divine Word, treating with contempt all that emanates from God

And the Bible fully supports him

• 1 Corinthians 1:19: For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.
• 1 Corinthians 1:21: For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.
• 1 Corinthians 1:27: But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise;

 

[Slowvehicle]

That is doing science, I indicated instead, to see what it says.

Implying, or at least acting as if, the understandings of the physical world provided by "doing science" were canonical, that is, contained only in, and supported only by, approved texts (however macculate their provenance).

Such, as practitioners know, is not the case.

Challenge my interpretation - or, as you say - look to fact. Experiment, observe, test the conclusions.

The fact that there is, in fact, no practical, empirical, objective, "congruent, fruitful, and luminous", non-anecdotal evidence to support a single one of your superstitions is challenge enough. Yours the claim, yours the onus.

Whenever you're ready.

,,,you could start with ƴ^e fludde...

 

[Slowvehicle]

What would you accept as proof?

Et tu, Ponito Pilatus?

 

[Aepervius]

That is an excellent suggestion! Just let me make this, my 15th post, so that I may link to some stuff I've written.

Sure. but do us and yourself a favor : before posting a wall of text and link to some christian web site , make sure you read the actual generally accepted historical facts about that.

 

[Rum]

To quote a man who is I am sure of favourite many atheists here 'extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence'.

 

[Ladewig]

Colassians 1:15-17 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation; because by means of him all other things were created in the heavens and on the earth, the things visible and the things invisible, whether they are thrones or lordships or governments or authorities. All other things have been created through him and for him.  Also, he is before all other things, and by means of him all other things were made to exist,

Genesis 1:26 Then God said: “Let us make man in our image, according to our likeness, and let them have in subjection the fish of the sea and the flying creatures of the heavens and the domestic animals and all the earth and every creeping animal that is moving on the earth.”

Proverbs 8:30 Then I was beside him as a master worker. I was the one he was especially fond of day by day; I rejoiced before him all the time; I rejoiced over his habitable earth, And I was especially fond of the sons of men.

John 8:23  He went on to say to them: “You are from the realms below; I am from the realms above. You are from this world; I am not from this world.

John 8:58 Jesus said to them: “Most truly I say to you, before Abraham came into existence, I have been.”

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god.

The original claim included Jesus dying before being born by Mary. The cited passages do not mention Him dying.