Continuation Part 14: Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito

[Desert Fox]

One issue is Alabama has been the their supreme court is elected, making them political animals.

 

[Ampulla of Vater]

I love how it turns sex into sexton and sexual into seal. Does it every time. I have to remember to correct the correction. And it does it for countless other words and terms. It turns FBI into FBT.I have no idea what FBT stands for.

In the world of gastroenterology it stands for fecal blood test.

 

[acbytesla]

Maybe I didn't express myself clearly enough. What I meant was that I have (and had) no emotional need for Knox or Sollecito to be found guilty or not-guilty or whatever.

If Knox had been my sister, for example, I'm sure I would have had a strong emotional wish for her to be innocent, and if it had turned out that she truly had participated in the murder, I'm sure I would have been emotionally devastated. That's the kind of thing I'm talking about.

What I wasn't meaning was that I didn't care about the outcome. I did care, at an intellectual and a personal level. After all, having concluded in my own mind that neither Knox nor Sollecito should be convicted for murder, and that they almost certainly had absolutely nothing to do with it, I felt it important to contribute to the debate since I felt I was seeing a miscarriage of justice in action. (Had I concluded that Knox and Sollecito had participated, I am certain that I would have felt no need to engage in online debate on the matter.)

And in addition, I did feel for Knox and Sollecito and their families at a personal level, since I believed they were being put through unnecessary and improper trauma (and incarceration). I also felt (and continue to feel) at a personal level for the Kercher family and friends, because they have clearly been through massive emotional trauma - not only on account of the murder of Meredith, but also through the many years of uncertainty and reverses of judgements on who was responsible for her death.

I certainly had an emotional wish that Amanda and Raffaele were found innocent. I know what it is like to go to jail for something you didn't do. (it was only a few days for me) I can't imagine spending 4 years or 24 or 28 years for something they did not do. How horrible.

 

[Strozzi]

Primary and Secondary Evidence

The biggest lesson for me is tell your kids not to talk to the cops. Talk to a lawyer first.

People need to understand that there is such a thing as credible primary evidence (generally crime scene evidence), and then there is secondary evidence which is often collected by (often created by) the police. Tell your kids not to talk to the police without an attorney - do not be an unwitting participant as the police create secondary evidence.

 

[Bill Williams]

Damn! This has got to be the worst possible decission. Years spent collecting sorting and analizing evidence in this case is suddenly moot. Now I have to start all over and find a life

Mine was around here a while ago! If you see it, can you send a PM!?

 

[Bill Williams]

Damn! This has got to be the worst possible decission. Years spent collecting sorting and analizing evidence in this case is suddenly moot. Now I have to start all over and find a life

I still think we should chase down those EDFs and the questura recordings if they exist.

Your contributions here, both before I started posting and since, have been immense.

That is one of the two enduring mysteries in the judicial handling of this case. Two things that strain credulity and are hard to fathom:

1) the non-release of the EDFs from Stefanoni, with at least one judge implying Stefanoni first needed to be charged with a crime!!!
2) no testing of the presumed-semen stain on the pillow case.​

Will not ANYONE in the Italian judicial system sneak into the evidence locker and do the testing on the sly? Then leak it to the press?

 

[Desert Fox]

People need to understand that there is such a thing as credible primary evidence (generally crime scene evidence), and then there is secondary evidence which is often collected by (often created by) the police. Tell your kids not to talk to the police without an attorney - do not be an unwitting participant as the police create secondary evidence.

Canada does not allow a lawyer to advice you during an interrogation. In addition, while you can remain silent, you cannot stop the police from talkign to you. Sounds like a recipe for problems.

 

[acbytesla]

In the world of gastroenterology it stands for fecal blood test.

I really didn't need to know that ...yuck

 

[Strozzi]

Ah, the lawsuit. What a good idea. It turns out they were never convicted of murder, transporting a knife, stealing phones or staging a break in, so plenty of slander and libel to deal with. Peter Quennell will be glad he was brave enough to ue his real name, but Margaret Ganong may regret being outed.

What about the poo? Who gets smeared for pushing that sorry excuse for a murder?

 

[acbytesla]

That is one of the two enduring mysteries in the judicial handling of this case. Two things that strain credulity and are hard to fathom:

1) the non-release of the EDFs from Stefanoni, with at least one judge implying Stefanoni first needed to be charged with a crime!!!
2) no testing of the presumed-semen stain on the pillow case.​

Will not ANYONE in the Italian judicial system sneak into the evidence locker and do the testing on the sly? Then leak it to the press?

Do you really believe that they still exist? I don't. I think that they existed at one time, but just like the interrogation tapes, I think they are long gone. That said, it's possible that a computer forensics technician could find them. You would be surprised at the number of corporations that have been screwed because of some document or emailthat they deleted was found. Good backup procedures have companies doing regular and full backups and archiving them frequently. So that email that you don't see in your inbox or deleted file folder is often on sometimes more than a few backup tapes stored off site.

 

[Bill Williams]

I'm reminded of the sage advice of a lawyer on these pages about suing others for defamation. There are only two things you really need:

1) a lot of money up front
2) the truth on your side.​

Well, this from one of Raffaele's support pages on FaceBook:

DESIDERIAMO COMUNICARE CHE ANCHE LA DIFFAMAZIONE SUI SOCIAL E' ORA PUNIBILE PENALMENTE. INFORMIAMO, PERTANTO, CHE RAFFAELE SOLLECITO PROVVEDERA' AD AGIRE NELLE SEDI OPPORTUNE VERSO TUTTI QUELLI CHE LO DIFFAMERANNO, PER TUTTI I REATI CHE VERRANNO CONTESTATI. PROVVEDERMO A TENERE MEMORIA DI TUTTE LE INGIURIE RICEVUTE A SEGUITO DELLA SENTENZA DI ASSOLUZIONE E QUELLE CHE VERRANNO.

We wish to communicate that even the defamation on social and hour criminally punishable. We inform, therefore, that raffaele sollecito is providing to act in the appropriate fora to all those who diffameranno For all the crimes that are going to be contested. Provvedermo to keep memory of all the insults received following the judgment of acquittal and those that will be.​

WE WISH TO COMMUNICATE THAT THE DEFAMATION ON SOCIAL (MEDIA) (IS) NOW PUNISHABLE CRIMINAL(LY). (WE) INFORM (EVERYONE), THEREFORE, THAT WILL URGE RAFFAELE TO ACT (AGAINST) ALL THOSE WHO DEFAME, FOR ALL CRIMES WILL BE CHALLENGED. WE WILL KEEP A RECORD OF ALL INJURIES RECEIVED AFTER THE JUDGMENT OF ACQUITTAL.

 

[kwill]

People need to understand that there is such a thing as credible primary evidence (generally crime scene evidence), and then there is secondary evidence which is often collected by (often created by) the police. Tell your kids not to talk to the police without an attorney - do not be an unwitting participant as the police create secondary evidence.

That can't be stressed enough. I'm sure the youtube video in which an attorney and a police officer explain why has been posted here before, but it's worth mentioning again.

Do not ever talk to police. Just don't.

 

[Onofarar]

She could. I CA actually imagine Arline doing this but not John. I have always suspected that he is/was the famed Harry Rag. If I was Amanda, I would sue the websites he posted his malicious and false comments to uncover his true identity.

I don't think John Kercher had the necessary technical computer chops to post his screed everywhere on the internet that Amanda's name was mentioned and the case discussed.
However, I do agree with John Bremmer's (Anne Bremmer's brother and a renowned researcher at Emory University in Atlanta) accusation / guess that Harry Rag/The Machine was Meredith's brother who does work in the computer field in UK.

 

[acbytesla]

I don't think John Kercher had the necessary technical computer chops to post his screed everywhere on the internet that Amanda's name was mentioned and the case discussed.
However, I do agree with John Bremmer's (Anne Bremmer's brother and a renowned researcher at Emory University in Atlanta) accusation / guess that Harry Rag/The Machine was Meredith's brother who does work in the computer field in UK.

I would love for Knox to sue the websites for the identity of Harry Rag. Now it is possible, maybe even probable that it too will result in a dead end but maybe not.

 

[Diocletus]

I'm reminded of the sage advice of a lawyer on these pages about suing others for defamation. There are only two things you really need:

1) a lot of money up front
2) the truth on your side.​

Well, this from one of Raffaele's support pages on FaceBook:

​

WE WISH TO COMMUNICATE THAT THE DEFAMATION ON SOCIAL (MEDIA) (IS) NOW PUNISHABLE CRIMINAL(LY). (WE) INFORM (EVERYONE), THEREFORE, THAT WILL URGE RAFFAELE TO ACT (AGAINST) ALL THOSE WHO DEFAME, FOR ALL CRIMES WILL BE CHALLENGED. WE WILL KEEP A RECORD OF ALL INJURIES RECEIVED AFTER THE JUDGMENT OF ACQUITTAL.

This is not going to end well for certain people.

 

[Bill Williams]

I'm reminded of the sage advice of a lawyer on these pages about suing others for defamation. There are only two things you really need:

1) a lot of money up front
2) the truth on your side.​

Well, this from one of Raffaele's support pages on FaceBook:
WE WISH TO COMMUNICATE THAT THE DEFAMATION ON SOCIAL (MEDIA) (IS) NOW PUNISHABLE CRIMINAL(LY). (WE) INFORM (EVERYONE), THEREFORE, THAT WILL URGE RAFFAELE TO ACT (AGAINST) ALL THOSE WHO DEFAME, FOR ALL CRIMES WILL BE CHALLENGED. WE WILL KEEP A RECORD OF ALL INJURIES RECEIVED AFTER THE JUDGMENT OF ACQUITTAL.

This is not going to end well for certain people.

Gentlemen - start your screen capture keys.

 

[Annella]

That is one of the two enduring mysteries in the judicial handling of this case. Two things that strain credulity and are hard to fathom:

1) the non-release of the EDFs from Stefanoni, with at least one judge implying Stefanoni first needed to be charged with a crime!!!
2) no testing of the presumed-semen stain on the pillow case.​

Will not ANYONE in the Italian judicial system sneak into the evidence locker and do the testing on the sly? Then leak it to the press?

Frank Sfarzo has always insisted the interrogation tapes will surface sometime. And lest we forget, as you wrote, Frank is like the Oracle of Delphi and so far has never been wrong.

 

[toto]

Maybe I didn't express myself clearly enough. What I meant was that I have (and had) no emotional need for Knox or Sollecito to be found guilty or not-guilty or whatever.

If Knox had been my sister, for example, I'm sure I would have had a strong emotional wish for her to be innocent, and if it had turned out that she truly had participated in the murder, I'm sure I would have been emotionally devastated. That's the kind of thing I'm talking about.

What I wasn't meaning was that I didn't care about the outcome. I did care, at an intellectual and a personal level. After all, having concluded in my own mind that neither Knox nor Sollecito should be convicted for murder, and that they almost certainly had absolutely nothing to do with it, I felt it important to contribute to the debate since I felt I was seeing a miscarriage of justice in action. (Had I concluded that Knox and Sollecito had participated, I am certain that I would have felt no need to engage in online debate on the matter.)

And in addition, I did feel for Knox and Sollecito and their families at a personal level, since I believed they were being put through unnecessary and improper trauma (and incarceration). I also felt (and continue to feel) at a personal level for the Kercher family and friends, because they have clearly been through massive emotional trauma - not only on account of the murder of Meredith, but also through the many years of uncertainty and reverses of judgements on who was responsible for her death.

I should add I don't see myself as an online commentator, rather I see myself as a juror (mainly lurker!) weighing up the evidence from both sides. This is why I have regularly looked at PMF and IIP sites but only really fully trust this site as a place where both sides can come together on neutral ground (which is why I find the censored sites and the lack of pro guilt commentators prepared to debate openly so revealing and in some ways worrying).

 

[codyjuneau]

Congratulations to Amanda and Raffaele! I was really delighted to hear the latest veredict. I didn't really expect it but I have to say that I was thought that carbonjam72's analysis was correct. Cheers all

The test of any theory, is the ability to predict an outcome.

Since we have a non-repeatable event, its difficult to rely on a prediction where one of perhaps 5 or 6 outcomes were possible. It's literally as accurate a roll of the dice, except not quite because the judicial result is so statistically rare.

Fact remains, I laid out a very careful analysis of why I expected a full acquittal with no re-trial.

I think its an interesting alternative explanation, because it isn't 'evidence based' (meaning from the facts of the case), but rather a political argument concerning the conflict between Burlesconi and the Italian judiciary, and all of them struggling to put a lid on their madman Mignini, and a sock in the mouth of their fantasizing self-aggrandizing fabulist Michele Giuttari.

This is a skeptics board, and I'd be interested to hear if people buy into what I've proposed. (plus, I'm feeling needy).

.
Hi CJ

Since no one else has responded, I will, maybe that will get the ball rolling.

I don't know!

Your research and analysis were brilliant, the hypothesis sounded plausible to me, and the result was what you predicted.

But I don't think we have enough information yet to determine the actual reasons for the result.

So it is difficult to judge the accuracy of your hypothesis.

Sorry, hopefully someone else will have a more useful answer for you.

I do think it would help if we knew how the judges are/were selected for the various trials.

Cody
.

 

[codyjuneau]

What about the poo? Who gets smeared for pushing that sorry excuse for a murder?

.
Hey, there is one I think I do know.

As I recall, it was Crini the Pooh.

Cody
.