Continuation Part 14: Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito

[lonepinealex]

What's with the "extra diet"?

It's prudish and puritan.

 

[toto]

The intended word was "extradited".

 

[acbytesla]

The intended word was "extradited".

Yes it was. More about the word sex on this tablet that is hilarious. That is that when you type it in is that it doesn't even offer the word sex as an option....it does however list sexton, sextile, sextet, sextant. Yea, these are much more commonly used in the English language.

 

[lonepinealex]

[/HILITE]

I fear that her level of comfort, if she did come to understand, would be seriously affected by the knowledge that her daughter's killer, as a result of a botched investigation and judicial incompetence, received an absurd mitigation, which because of the equally absurd peculiarities of the fast track system, culminated in a sentence reduced by almost half from the one originally set - and he will not serve the 16 years.

For comparative purposes, in the UK, the killer of Joanna Yeates (in the well known case involving the wrongful arrest of Christopher Jeffries), received a sentence of life imprisonment with a minimum of 20 years. Indeed, he may not be released after 20 years.

I mention this, because in one interview, Mrs Kercher expressed the view that the Italian system could be regarded as better than the British, because the judge has to write a report and we don't have these reports in Britain.

Yes the Kerchers really are between a rock and a hard place now. If they come to realise the truth about how much the investigation and prosecution screwed up, they're still never going to get any closure. Not without a huge inquiry anyway.

 

[Planigale]

Yes it was. More about the word sex on this tablet that is hilarious. That is that when you type it in is that it doesn't even offer the word sex as an option....it does however list sexton, sextile, sextet, sextant. Yea, these are much more commonly used in the English language.

The PC word is gender.

As in 'You look really gendery in those tight jeans'.

 

[acbytesla]

The PC word is gender.

As in 'You look really gendery in those tight jeans'.

Is gendery a word? Sexy btw is also not listed as a word on this either. Sexy turns into Sean and Seychelles. The programmers for this thing should have gone out and got laid.

 

[anglolawyer]

Ok, I just read on PMF that Knox is facing a possible six years on a second "calunnia" charge. Is this true, and can she be extradited for that?

If I were an Italian persecutor I would be thinking about my own skin rather than figuring out ways of pissing her off. Assuming this gossip has some substance (a big assumption) it looks as though we should get another few threads out of this case yet.

 

[Samson]

All this from a country that won't pick up the phone and call when a Marine is rotting in a jail in Mexico and from an Embassy that failed to even do their duty when this American was charged. I thought that according to the experts over there, the US wasn't even going to fight an extradition. I'll add this to list of wild Conspiracy Theories from this poster. Just more of the same, Let's Pretend. At least it's a change from the Hellmann bribed by US media people with the help of the evil Masons.

I have no knowledge beyond the internet obviously, but I do buy the theory that lobbyists for Amanda to the state department have made the critical difference, particularly including some from this forum. I think Raffaele was very unlucky Amanda was an American and very lucky she is an American.
Only my opinion.

 

[Bill Williams]

Thanks for your reply. I don't understand the highlighted part. I thought you had spoken well of the film but then you referred to it as "mediocre". So I just wanted your take on it. The rest of my questions were also simple curiosity! My perspective would be that I would be disappointed if a director whose work I admired, such as his "The Trip" with Steve Coogan, made a film that hinted towards the guilt of the girl suspect, and that if the film ended with the acquittal (that the director appears to sympathise with), then I would enjoy the film more, even though I would know it was just an art film that ultimately had no bearing on the Knox case.

ETA I will see the film!

I speak well of the film as it presents "the case", esp. as the early tabloids, and hacks like Nick Pisa and Barbie Nadeau hopelessly compromised the public record. The irony of ironies is that the film gets its traction by buying the rights to Nadeau's slutty little book.....

..... and then does a 180 degree turn on her. Nadeau doesn't seem to care. As the Sfarzo-character says in the film, "Why should you be the only one making money from this....." Beckinsale plays the Nadeau-character, and there's one seminal scene....

Beckinsale is up in Bruhl's room discussing the case. They were talking about all the free-sex and drug use among students in Perugia, and potentially how it had played in the murder.

Then Bruhl says something like, "I guess you're spending the night with that other reporter." Her response, "Not tonight I'm not." Then the two of them fall into bed..... later what with all the cocaine floating between the reporters, even a dimwit like me gets it.....

Winterbottom is casting those early reporters as tabloid-hacks, and hardcore money-grubbing hypocrites to boot. With the exception of Sfarzo. It's not until Bruhl ditches Beckinsale, and turns to the Cara-character (fictional) does he even have a chance to figure out student life in Perugia.

So, I think the film is good in that it understands the case. With exceptions. The film, as a film, is probably mediocre. At TIFF it had no traction, and if Cara had not appeared in Toronto in that incredible green dress, it would have had no mention at all from the 350+ films featured.

The exceptions? The interrogations (both of Raffaele and of Amanda) are simply headshots, with the two only speaking to people off-screen; no dialogue coming from off-screen either. The Amanda-character simply dead-pans her "false confession" with no context. This could have been Amanda telling a friend about Lumumba over coffee atStarbucks, rather than an interrogation.

It was suggested to me that Winterbottom purposely did the interrogations that way to avoid his own calunnia. It could not have been more minimalist, and it was deceiving, mainly due to (it was suggested) legal concerns.

There was also another brief scene when a larger gaggle of reporters were (early on) discussing if there'd be a conviction - this was set in 2009. One of the American reporters makes a reference to an obvious PR campaign back in the States that was polluting the record for Americans!!! I mean, that was probably the lone nod to Nadeau in the whole film.

I apologize for going off on thinking you were giving me grief!!!

It's been put to me even from a pro-innocence point of view, that this film is still yet another commercial enterprise making money off of the Kercher's grief, and the victimization of Sollecito/Knox. I'm not sure what to think of that - capitalists are going to exploit this sort of thing, that's what they do.

Anyway, there is a thread on IIP about the film. I have a rather disorganized summary at the beginning, and then the debate rages from there!

http://www.injusticeanywhereforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=85&t=3111&p=149836&hilit=winterbottom#p149836

There's also a review by Nigel Scott.

http://wrongfulconvictionnews.com/face-of-an-angel-directed-by-michael-winterbottom-film-review/

 

[katy_did]

Yes it was. More about the word sex on this tablet that is hilarious. That is that when you type it in is that it doesn't even offer the word sex as an option....it does however list sexton, sextile, sextet, sextant. Yea, these are much more commonly used in the English language.

I have a friend called "Geoff", but whenever I try to type his name on my phone it gets changed to "Herod". Because that's so much more likely to be what I was trying to type.

I just call him Herod now, it's easier.

 

[NancyS]

I hope people Stateside can access the BBC video segments and watch Arline's little interview.

You have to feel sorry for her. She's completely out of her depth trying to understand anything to do with the case. And she's also clearly sick.

Someone needs to find a way to get through to her and her family - then this thing will be truly over.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-32122369

This makes me feel really sad, she just appears a bit lost and broken

One of the most awful things about this, is that the crazy fantasy prosecution narrative and the incessant misinformation provided by some on the Internet, have helped to obscure the truth for the family. I doubt whether they quite have the stomach to go over each and every bit of evidence in detail - and their lawyer should have been their advocate. Instead, their legal team did everything they could to further obscure the truth and this seems to have left them confused and broken. And yet if you claim to think AK/RS are innocent, you are considered by many to be anti-Kercher family - whereas in reality, the more rabid anti-AK/RS have helped contribute to their distress, by helping to obscure the truth. It makes me cross!

 

[RoseMontague]

I have a friend called "Geoff", but whenever I try to type his name on my phone it gets changed to "Herod". Because that's so much more likely to be what I was trying to type.

I just call him Herod now, it's easier.

Is he the actor Geoff Herod?

 

[Samson]

Well, I'm glad we can't help them out anymore--will probably keep us from getting accidentally swept into the lawsuit.

Ah, the lawsuit. What a good idea. It turns out they were never convicted of murder, transporting a knife, stealing phones or staging a break in, so plenty of slander and libel to deal with. Peter Quennell will be glad he was brave enough to ue his real name, but Margaret Ganong may regret being outed.

 

[Diocletus]

I wouldn't expect Raf's lawsuit to disappear as quickly though. His lawyer Brizioli was among those charged by Mignini in the Florence 20 Narducci trail case, finally resolved only last year. Cassation had sent the case back down in 2013 (right around when the Hellman acquittal was overturned) after taking out the element of conspiracy (satanic sect), and every charge against every defendant left was subject to a statute of limitations.

Brizioli alone demanded his case be heard and judged to acquittal, refusing to prevail on the technicality of statute of limitation.

I fully expect Brizioli to, in Mach's word, 'take his revenge' on Mignini in the case over Honor Bound. The revelations will drip out slowly I predict, and Mignini will become a long-running Sunday comic in the Italian press, finally seen for the buffoon that he is. And even that's assuming Mignini manages to stay out of jail. Otherwise, he'll be experiencing the same excursions to court that Amanda and Raf endured for 4 years.

LOL. Big Mig is screwed. Nothing like an overly-motivated opposing lawyer in a case in which proof of your own misconduct is the defense.

 

[katy_did]

Is he the actor Geoff Herod?

That would make so much sense.

But sadly (I just google imaged him) no.

 

[acbytesla]

I have no knowledge beyond the internet obviously, but I do buy the theory that lobbyists for Amanda to the state department have made the critical difference, particularly including some from this forum. I think Raffaele was very unlucky Amanda was an American and very lucky she is an American.
Only my opinion.

It wouldn't surprise me that the State Department warned them that if they did request extradition be prepared for a rigorous examination of the case and the evidence. That they should only expect a positive result under those conditions. We had no desire to interfere in Italy's judicial proceedings, but because of the notoriety in this case nothing short of a solid case would be acceptable. Basically a warning to Italy to get it right. No ****** around .

 

[LondonJohn]

It wouldn't surprise me that the State Department warned them that if they did request extradition be prepared for a rigorous examination of the case and the evidence. That they should only expect a positive result under those conditions. We had no desire to interfere in Italy's judicial proceedings, but because of the notoriety in this case nothing short of a solid case would be acceptable. Basically a warning to Italy to get it right. No ****** around .

I don't think it's even as strong as this. I doubt there was any communication whatsoever between the US DoS and the Italian judiciary, nor that there was any communication from US DoS to Italian Executive Govt to Italian judiciary. I do however think that the SC judicial panel would have been minded of the US's stance on extradition, and that this might possibly have prompted them to consider the logical ramifications: is the US DoS saying the US wouldn't extradite simply because they are blindly protecting a US citizen regardless of the evidence of guilt, or is this instead a useful indicator that convictions would be wrongful here?

I think we have to bear in mind that it's a cornerstone of justice systems in modern democracies that 1) everyone is equal under the law, 2) nobody can buy or otherwise influence the administration of justice, 3) the judiciary must be - and must be seen to be - wholly independent from every other arm of government.

And that's why I would argue that if this SC panel of five judges really was "nobbled" (and I think it's a preposterous and incorrect accusation, but for the sake of this argument...), then observers - especially Italian ones - should be focussing their attention pretty heavily on the shocking thought that the Italian judiciary, from the very highest level down, can be bought, influenced, corrupted etc.

I feel confident that if there was ever any credible thought in the UK that our Supreme Court or High Courts (or even Crown Courts of Magistrates' Courts) could be corrupted at will, or bought off, or politically influenced, there would be a stupendous outcry at a number of levels. In fact, it would trigger something of a constitutional crisis here, I'm sure.

 

[Numbers]

Ok, I just read on PMF that Knox is facing a possible six years on a second "calunnia" charge. Is this true, and can she be extradited for that?

That second criminal charge for calunnia relates to Amanda Knox stating in court testimony that Italian police threatened her and hit her during her Nov. 5/6, 2007 interrogation, IIUC.

Assuming she were convicted of that charge in Italy, the first question would be, what would be the US crime? (To extradite someone, the crimes must be identical, in facts not name, in the two countries, and be a punishable by at least one year in prison.) If perjury, where is the objective evidence that she was not telling the truth? The police did not make any audio or video recording of the interrogation, if one exists, public. So it is doubtful if there would be "probable cause" in the US. Plus, that interrogation should have had at least an audio recording to comply with Italian criminal procedure law, and she should have been warned of her right to silence an been provided with an attorney during the interrogation. And she has applied to the ECHR regarding her conviction for calunnia against Patrick Lumumba, alleging that Italy violated her rights under the European Convention on Human Rights in the interrogation.

So, the short answer is she would not be extradited if an Italian court somehow convicted her of this "calunnia" against the police, IMO.

 

[Numbers]

I think that's to do with her book - Raffaele is being sued over his book too. Hopefully all these opportunistic additional trials will fizzle out or be dismissed by the courts.

It's not altogether to do with her book. It's more to do with what she said in court about having been hit over the head, though she repeated the accusations in her book and in a few interviews.

Any statement that related to the book would be "defamation". "Calunnia" must a report of a crime falsely accusing someone stated to a judicial authority.

 

[Antony]

Yes it was. More about the word sex on this tablet that is hilarious. That is that when you type it in is that it doesn't even offer the word sex as an option....it does however list sexton, sextile, sextet, sextant. Yea, these are much more commonly used in the English language.

I'm told if you ask a man under a certain age to name a 3-letter word ending in "x", he will immediately say "sex". If you ask the same question to a man over that age, then he will immediately say "tax".
(Can't remember what the watershed was: 25? 35?)