Continuation Part 14: Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito

[Kauffer]

As much as I see this happening at some point, I do not expect it to happen for years. It will only happen after public opinion in Italy Is firmly behind Amanda and Raffaele. I imagine there are more than a few nutters over there that are raising a stink at the moment. But over time they will be marginalized just like the nutters here and the UK.

Well, if you believe the press today, she'll be going back to Italy sooner rather than later - to write a book about the Italian legal system.

 

[Bill Williams]

Ok. Here's an anonymously-passed-on poster for the event Mignini was at, to do with Satanism.

When the YouTube video of Mignini attending was first shown here at JREF/ISF, our good friend Machiavelli said that Mignini was invited up from the floor. We could certainly now use a clarification.

This poster seems to indicate he was part of the panel all along.



A Google translation of the poster:

at the Hall Of Jordan to Janus Umbria (Pg)

presentation of
Crimes & Mysteries

The Beasts of Satan and Satanism

and the new scientific director
Franseco Bruno

Giuliano Mignini
Magistrate Sust. proc. general
the prosecutor of Perugia​

 

[Bill Williams]

Ok, that did not come out well. Here is a close-up of the speaker's list.

 

[acbytesla]

Well, if you believe the press today, she'll be going back to Italy sooner rather than later - to write a book about the Italian legal system.

1. Italian press?
2. I would first expect that her book "Waiting to be heard" is published in Italy. Which brings up a big question for everyone. How does that work for her publisher? Amanda received a 4 million dollar guarantee and for many reasons it did not sell as well as they hoped.(not Amanda's fault) Authors do have a responsibility to help sell their books. But this is unusual circumstances. Would they pay her more for an addendum to the book and another promotional tour?

 

[Bill Williams]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...er-about-italian-courts-verdict-10141391.html

"Seven and a half years after the murder of Ms Kercher in Perugia, and a number of legal proceedings, Franceso Maresca, the lawyer representing the Kerchers, said yesterday: “The family is in shock after the verdict. They don’t wish to make any other declarations. I’ve had to explain to them there are now no avenues open to them. There is a great sense of bitterness.”"

Sure there are:

1) Demand all the evidence in the cases is released.

2) Sit down with Peter Gill and let him explain the forensic evidence from the complete case file.

3) Insist on an independent review of the conduct of the case.

After all, they've always wanted to know the truth.

Bypass Maresca and demand the presumed semen-stain be tested!

 

[acbytesla]

Well, if you believe the press today, she'll be going back to Italy sooner rather than later - to write a book about the Italian legal system.

Where have they written that?

 

[Bill Williams]

Members seem interested in what Machiavelli has to say, so here is some of it. (He has said here that he is Yummi who wrote the following).

1. The SC definitively established that Guede acted with other people, and that he could not be holding the murder weapon. This is what the Italian newspapers pointed out yesterday.
2. Cassazione didn't throw out the final verdict on Guede, nor the Chieffi verdict. They are all still valid, this is the bizarre thing.
3. If the Guede verdict is reviewed and changed, if there is no evidence of multiple attackers, then he could not be convicted at all. There is no chance he could be convicted as a lone perpetrator. If there is no evidence that multiple attackers were there - we know 100% there is of course - but assume there isn't, then try to imagine if there could be evidence that he did everything alone: zero evidence that he broke the window, zero evidence that he could perform all physical actions alone and leave those traces, zero evidence he walked back to lock the door or washed himself in the bathroom on the murder scene, zero evidence he came back to alter the scene. Absolutely zero possibility to present a consistent scenario on that evidence. Guede cannot be accused of this.

Except for his DNA inside the victim, and his bloody palm-print in the murder room. Plus 8 of nine experts at the Massei trial said there was nothing ruling out a single attacker. But if you yell loud enough, Machiavelli, you can establish a new truth, I suppose. And his admission to being there during the murder! M'God, what more can you ignore?

Remember, Machiavelli - the whole cottage is the crime-scene, including the murderroom.

 

[Kauffer]

Where have they written that?

Here:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...y-s-legal-cleared-death-Meredith-Kercher.html

It was also in the Sunday Times here in the UK

 

[Antony]

"Forgive Amanda"? Was this a typo? They were the ones trying to destroy her life!

Sure they were, but probably not the present or future officials. Keep in mind for example, that enrollment from foreign students is down considerably in Perugia and locals attribute it to the case and how it has been portrayed by the media.

At some time, it would be fantastic PR for them to invite Amanda back. It all depends on who's running the show. If their ties and loyalties are to Mignini and his cabal...then there is no chance. But if those ties are severed and people move on and realize that this stain will never disappear without a sincere "mea culpa" it will happen.

But on the other hand, I could be wrong.

My post was in response to one of yours which suggested the Kerchers might some day "forgive" Amanda. Nothing to do with the Perugia municipality.

 

[davefoc]

While the family might be deceived, I consider it really unlikely that Maresca does not know that Amanda and Raff are not guilty and that Guede most likely is the sole attacker.

Exactly who were true believers and who were cynical actors in all this is one of the things that interests me about this. Right now it looks unknowable. After the Simpson trial the issue of which of his lawyers were true believers and which knew he was guilty came up. There was speculation that F. Lee Bailey was actually a true believer and the rest knew he was guilty.

In this case I've wondered about that kind of thing without much of a basis to make a judgment. It seems like Mignini was probably a true believer. I would lean to this just based on his beliefs in the supernatural. What about Stefanoni? She must have understood that her procedures were flawed, but did she think she was lying for a good cause? As far as Maresca goes I don't know enough to make a guess. It is easy to assume that he was the most cynical actor in this whole thing. It is hard to imagine given his actions which seemed to be aimed at convicting Knox and Sollecito and obscuring the truth that he was anything but cynical. But I don't know. Presumably John Kercher is a true believer, but the rest of his family?

And what of the various judges that were involved? Was self interest the only driver? Perhaps they believed protecting the credibility of a prosecutor was more important that justice or truth? Again I don't even have a good hunch as to what was going on with regard to what they truly believed.

 

[acbytesla]

My post was in response to one of yours which suggested the Kerchers might some day "forgive" Amanda. Nothing to do with the Perugia municipality.

OK. I am probably just being hopeful about them. Believing in the best of humanity is some times one of my biggest failings.

 

[Kauffer]

OK. I am probably just being hopeful about them. Believing in the best of humanity is some times one of my biggest failings.

Antony's point is that the use of the word 'forgive' is inappropriate. Amanda did nothing that she needs to be forgiven for.

 

[Sergei Walankov]

It seems to me that the "true belief" tended to come from people of advanced years who had cultivated fantastical notions about the moral degeneracy of modern youth. I wasn't aware until today that the chief culprit behind the Supreme Court's disgraceful ruling of March 2013 was 72 years old. This seemed to fit nicely into a broader pattern.

 

[Samson]

Exactly who were true believers and who were cynical actors in all this is one of the things that interests me about this. Right now it looks unknowable. After the Simpson trial the issue of which of his lawyers were true believers and which knew he was guilty came up. There was speculation that F. Lee Bailey was actually a true believer and the rest knew he was guilty.

In this case I've wondered about that kind of thing without much of a basis to make a judgment. It seems like Mignini was probably a true believer. I would lean to this just based on his beliefs in the supernatural. What about Stefanoni? She must have understood that her procedures were flawed, but did she think she was lying for a good cause? As far as Maresca goes I don't know enough to make a guess. It is easy to assume that he was the most cynical actor in this whole thing. It is hard to imagine given his actions which seemed to be aimed at convicting Knox and Sollecito and obscuring the truth that he was anything but cynical. But I don't know. Presumably John Kercher is a true believer, but the rest of his family?

And what of the various judges that were involved? Was self interest the only driver? Perhaps they believed protecting the credibility of a prosecutor was more important that justice or truth? Again I don't even have a good hunch as to what was going on with regard to what they truly believed.

I think it can be logically proved beyond any doubt Mignini knew they were uninvolved after interviewing Rudy. He would have been asked questions he could not answer, and it would have been obvious he was fabricating. The story Mignini brought was specific. Mignini was between a rock and a hard place. His career was over if he released another three suspects. Instead he relied on the normal process of convicting all people at the first trial, and his friend Massei obliged. I don't know if he was a friend of Micheli...
I am more than happy to have holes picked in this argument of course.

 

[acbytesla]

Antony's point is that the use of the word 'forgive' is inappropriate. Amanda did nothing that she needs to be forgiven for.

I guess what I meant and said inarticulately is that they would apologize and make amends with Amanda. But maybe this is just hope on my part.

 

[Chris_Halkides]

cutting Patrick some slack on a one-time basis

I thought about this the other day, when I happened to hear a quiz question on TV about Patrice Lumumba.

I'd say it was not only dim of Patrick (Diya) Lumumba to make this false claim of close familial relationship to Patrice Lumumba - it also perhaps offers insights into his character. It suggests that he might be something of a fantasist who has little problem lying and exaggerating if he thinks it might be to his personal benefit.

LondonJohn,

Diya (Patrick) Lumumba is not my favorite person. He is a victim of the police's hamfisted tactics, but he has been willfully stupid with respect to Amanda's interrogation. However, he was a musician and a bar owner, and if claiming kinship with Patrice Lumumba was good for his business, then I am tempted to give him a pass on that one. With respect to the Daily Mail, I wonder whether or not the police kept his bar closed primarily because of the Daily Mail article. Impossible to prove.

 

[acbytesla]

LondonJohn,

Diya (Patrick) Lumumba is not my favorite person. He is a victim of the police's hamfisted tactics, but he has been willfully stupid with respect to Amanda's interrogation. However, he was a musician and a bar owner, and if claiming kinship with Patrice Lumumba was good for his business, then I am tempted to give him a pass on that one. With respect to the Daily Mail, I wonder whether or not the police kept his bar closed primarily because of the Daily Mail article. Impossible to prove.

I'm actually with you on this Chris. The bar never re-opened after his release from jail. What right do they have to keep it closed? I can't imagine that happening in the US.

 

[Numbers]

LondonJohn,

Diya (Patrick) Lumumba is not my favorite person. He is a victim of the police's hamfisted tactics, but he has been willfully stupid with respect to Amanda's interrogation. However, he was a musician and a bar owner, and if claiming kinship with Patrice Lumumba was good for his business, then I am tempted to give him a pass on that one. With respect to the Daily Mail, I wonder whether or not the police kept his bar closed primarily because of the Daily Mail article. Impossible to prove.

That closure of his bar may also have contributed to the pressure on him to file the civil suit against Amanda.

 

[acbytesla]

Here:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...y-s-legal-cleared-death-Meredith-Kercher.html

It was also in the Sunday Times here in the UK

Thank you Kauffer. The book on Italian justice sounds interesting. But given how insane their laws are there, I have to wonder if she wants to open herself up for further attacks.

 

[acbytesla]

That closure of his bar may also have contributed to the pressure on him to file the civil suit against Amanda.

I'm sure it did. I always thought the guy was between a rock and a hard place. I wonder if he thinks he will ever be paid by Knox?