Continuation Part 14: Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito

[JREF2010]

I think that's actually way more likely than Amanda seeking further legal trouble, other than seeking compensation from the state and ECHR on the calunnia. Why would she bother or want to be involved with these criminals?

Raf's family is a different story. It's their country, and they go hog wild over insults and lies, etc. Apparently for good reason. But I think they are far more likely to leave no stone unturned, and nail everyone who hurt them.

Yes, Im going to look for that comment in Frank Sfarzo's site. That's were I first read it was a possibility.

The poor investigative work and the errors of the prosecution, that has left the Kerchers in a situation, I agree with the article that they feel they were let down. They probably dont know what to think or who to look to in Italy.

There were several prisoners who supposedly heard Rudy talking about how it wasn't Amanda and Raffaele. The video of Raffaeles lawyer and Alessi was not believed because the prosecution assumed it was some conspiracy.

I dont know statistics on prisoners confessing years later? Hopefully Rudy has it in him to explain it all clearly and truthfully.

 

[Bill Williams]

Arline Kercher wants to meet Rudy Guede! Wow, just when you think you've seen it all.

Meredith Kercher's mother: 'We have waited in vain' http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...h-Kerchers-mother-We-have-waited-in-vain.html

Mrs Kercher suggested she may make a prison visit to see Rudy Guede, who is serving a 16-year jail sentence for the murder of Miss Kercher, but said she didn't know whether it would be possible.

Maybe she can get the truth out of him. Up until this point, Rudy Guede has had very good legal counsel. I doubt the lawyer would be in favour of this.

 

[carbonjam72]

Calling Carlizzi, come in Gabriella...

Yes, Im going to look for that comment in Frank Sfarzo's site. That's were I first read it was a possibility.

The poor investigative work and the errors of the prosecution, that has left the Kerchers in a situation, I agree with the article that they feel they were let down. They probably dont know what to think or who to look to in Italy.

There were several prisoners who supposedly heard Rudy talking about how it wasn't Amanda and Raffaele. The video of Raffaeles lawyer and Alessi was not believed because the prosecution assumed it was some conspiracy.

I dont know statistics on prisoners confessing years later? Hopefully Rudy has it in him to explain it all clearly and truthfully.

You don't by any chance have a link to Frank's site?

And Rudy did after all apologize to his adopted family for not calling for help on the night Meredtih was killed. I think Rudy is so invested in his own lie at this stage, there's no point expecting him to come off of it now.

Showing where he disposed of his knife is probably never going to happen. But he might be willing to admit he went downstairs? Or does that also conflict with his narrative of distress? No, I can't see Rudy coughing up the goods.

However, if you can get "the dog" or "the professor" to talk when Rudy's not there, they might tell you what they saw.

I think that's the answer: we have to wait for Rudy's next Fugue state, to see if we can contact the dog or the professor. Where oh where is that p[sychic medium carlizzi when we finally need her?? Why God, Why?

 

[carbonjam72]

Maybe she can get the truth out of him. Up until this point, Rudy Guede has had very good legal counsel. I doubt the lawyer would be in favour of this.

Unless he got paid. Not a joke. If a deal could be structured so Rudy wouldn't face additional charges, and Biscotti could get his filthy palms greased, that's a deal I could see happening.

I still say Rudy confessing to the media, in exchange for money being paid to the Kerchers, is just win-win-win.

 

[anglolawyer]

Arline Kercher wants to meet Rudy Guede! Wow, just when you think you've seen it all.

Meredith Kercher's mother: 'We have waited in vain' http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...h-Kerchers-mother-We-have-waited-in-vain.html

Mrs Kercher suggested she may make a prison visit to see Rudy Guede, who is serving a 16-year jail sentence for the murder of Miss Kercher, but said she didn't know whether it would be possible.

He can tell her face to face how sorry he is not to have called for help.

 

[Diocletus]

He can tell her face to face how sorry he is not to have called for help.

Ninjaed.

 

[JREF2010]

You don't by any chance have a link to Frank's site?

And Rudy did after all apologize to his adopted family for not calling for help on the night Meredtih was killed. I think Rudy is so invested in his own lie at this stage, there's no point expecting him to come off of it now.

Showing where he disposed of his knife is probably never going to happen. But he might be willing to admit he went downstairs? Or does that also conflict with his narrative of distress? No, I can't see Rudy coughing up the goods.

However, if you can get "the dog" or "the professor" to talk when Rudy's not there, they might tell you what they saw.

I think that's the answer: we have to wait for Rudy's next Fugue state, to see if we can contact the dog or the professor. Where oh where is that p[sychic medium carlizzi when we finally need her?? Why God, Why?

Franks site was shut down by Migninni charges/court order, you know.
I dont have any idea where all his Perugia Shock articles are.

Rudy did admit to the shoeprint being his, in some way....so would he on the right moment admit to the knife, the footprint? the motive?..the truth?
Nothing of Rudy was discussed much, mainly because the prosecution and Maresca wouldnt allow it.

 

[carbonjam72]

Franks site was shut down by Migninni charges/court order, you know.
I dont have any idea where all his Perugia Shock articles are.

Rudy did admit to the shoeprint being his, in some way....so would he on the right moment admit to the knife, the footprint? the motive?..the truth?
Nothing of Rudy was discussed much, mainly because the prosecution and Maresca wouldnt allow it.

And Rudy's case file is still sealed for no apparent reason.

I'd like to see what Rudy told Mignini in December 2007 when he was first brought back to Perugia. ("Amanda wasn't there, and Raf who?").

I can't see Rudy ever admitting guilt though. his story is he didn't kill Meredith, he was on a date. How can he change that story?

 

[Numbers]

He can tell her face to face how sorry he is not to have called for help.

And since he maintains he was the last person to have had a date with Meredith, perhaps the Kerchers view him as someone who was close to their daughter/sister.

Have the Kerchers ever contacted Meredith's actual Italian boyfriend, Giacomo?

 

[Sonia]

Well, because you can drink from 18, drinking clubs aren't something I've heard of per se. You go to the student union bar, or you have a house or corridor party with BYOB. There was wine soc., but anyone could join, there was a CAMRA group (likewise). Cambridge has something called the Pitt club which is a men only club, in a rather nice building. They did have good parties, but rather unattractive men. There is something similar at Oxford called the Grid. Most colleges have a 'social' club or two that organise parties (which involves drinking so I guess they are drinking clubs). These tend to come and go. Most are pretty open although college specific. The right sort of girl can have quite a round of parties (there are some girls clubs as well, there is a reason for the phrase 'Cambridge Bicycle'). I'm not sure they have any influence outside of the social. Probably useful if you are wanting to be a journalist or politician. Most of the law students are too serious and left wing to want to join anything too elitist, any way the inns of court have enough of that. I cannot say it is something there seems to be much of at London, but since I don't drink and aren't a socialite I may have missed this and anyway they are mostly undergraduate, PhD students just obsess about their PhD then you suddenly find yourself worrying about jobs, housing, marriage and not leaving it too late to have children.

ETA
In science and medicine and law these clubs are utterly irrelevant, all three are pretty elitist, you are dependant on the class of your degree / post grad qualifications / and continued hard work and success. In science Mentors are important. The Royal Society should be the closest thing to the Masons or the Illuminati. But secrecy is really anathema to science.

Thanks for that. I was actually thinking of the social clubs you mention, like the Bullingdon.

http://www.theguardian.com/education/2008/may/09/oxbridgeandelitism.highereducation

 

[codyjuneau]

Who knows the technicality of reinstating Hellmann.... but it certainly seems like an identical conclusion. The motivations report will explain all: which is the best part of the Italian system. (When the Hellmann motivations report came in well before its 90 day time-limit, one main .ORG denizen said, "This reads like an FOA press release!")

So with the Gogerty-Marriott PR firm now out of business, I wonder who will be writing Bruno's report for him?

My vote goes to RandyN!

.
Is RandyN posting anywhere?

Nobody could write a critique quite the way RandyN could. I always looked forward to reading his posts. As they say, he did not suffer fools easily, and there was no shortage of people to not suffer.

For those who don't know, RandyN got the boot from the moderators, I am not sure what for. It was probably justified, but still a shame. If you want some good reading search for his posts when this forum was still part of jref.

Cody
.

 

[codyjuneau]

I think they can weasle their way around attacking Chieffi. He said the DNA test in the knife would be decisive for one thing, so they could rest on that.

But I also agree, there's so much that Chieffi got wrong its hard to see how they don't make some corrections to the logic applied in the case; certainly in regard to importing judicial truths from other cases, and requiring contamination to be proven. And possibly re-evaluating witnesses like Curatolo without actually hearing them. Maybe even access to discovery, and insisting that suspect interviews be performed in accordance with the law.

I agree, should be interesting to see. Glad its done.

.
I think the motivations report is the saving grace for Italy's justice system. I think it should be written before the decision is given, rather than after though. That would give the authors time to recognize stupid logic, rather than justifying stupid logic after the fact.

I still wonder if Nencini is as dumb as his motivation report makes him seem to be. I find it almost inconceivable that a judge could write such nonsense. But if you believe the juror that said there was an atmosphere of guilt right from day one, then I guess you have to believe it was what he sincerely believed. He must have been talking to Machi.

Cody
.

 

[Strozzi]

A link for anybody that is interested:
http://www.newsweek.com/2015/03/27/will-amanda-knox-be-dragged-back-italy-murder-case-314970.html

About 50% of the comments I read argued for guilt. I had not seen such a high percentage of anti-Knox and Sollecito comments on any other article I could remember reading. One thing that is going on appears to be that the pro-guilt side are really motivated and a few people make a whole lot of posts.

Dave, I started reading the Newsweek article. It is so full of factual errors that I stopped. For example, it says the bra clasp was cut from the victim. Nina, the clasp was torn from the bra strap, not cut - get it right! Too bad Newsweek didn't have the article edited before publication by someone who follows the case.

 

[Samson]

I don't know that repasting their bilge here serves much purpose. And is their extreme emotional investment in a matter of no rational interest to them really so unlike our own?

I have to disagree with this, and agree with LondonJohn. The future of this case is for the Kercher family to admit the truth, and apologise to Amanda and Raffaele. They have been die hard gulters. The last thing I recall John Kercher being qoted saying was about something Amanda said, "We have heard all this rubbish before". Well it is now a judicial truth that Amanda is very unlikely to have been talking rubbish, and she is due many apologies.
I totally agree with an ongoing attempt to understand the minds of guilters, and quoting and analysing them must be part of that process.

Of course the key to the truth is around Rudy's release. He is not half way through his sentence, but keen for release. I don't know about elsewhere, but here he would never get parole without satisfying the officials he was acknowledging his crime. Now it is a judicial truth that Amanda and Raffaele were not there, he must revert to his original skype theory at least, which will aid the guilters including the Kerchers to understand Amanda and Raffaele were not there. To ever again suggest they were should be a sure way to mean he serves his full sentence. There is everything to be won by Amanda and Raffaele by being close Rudy watchers from here.

 

[Samzilla]

Is it common place for fast-track trials to be sealed, or is Rudy Guede's the exception? Any word on when it may be unsealed?

 

[Strozzi]

Arline Kercher wants to meet Rudy Guede! Wow, just when you think you've seen it all.

Meredith Kercher's mother: 'We have waited in vain' http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...h-Kerchers-mother-We-have-waited-in-vain.html

Mrs Kercher suggested she may make a prison visit to see Rudy Guede, who is serving a 16-year jail sentence for the murder of Miss Kercher, but said she didn't know whether it would be possible.

I can see it now. Inspector Giobbi will drive her to the prison. Anna Donino will translate.

 

[JREF2010]

And Rudy's case file is still sealed for no apparent reason.

I'd like to see what Rudy told Mignini in December 2007 when he was first brought back to Perugia. ("Amanda wasn't there, and Raf who?").

I can't see Rudy ever admitting guilt though. his story is he didn't kill Meredith, he was on a date. How can he change that story?

wow? sealed....who would have authority to open it?
Could the Kerchers request it?

I didnt know that, theres the truth and then theres the law.

 

[JREF2010]

I can see it now. Inspector Giobbi will drive her to the prison. Anna Donino will translate.

Speaking of Giobbi, I hope someone tells him to get his picture of Amanda off his wall. What he does with it is his business, but it should be taken down form the Govt. office.

Did he even put one up of Rudy? probably not.

Some people arent very good at their jobs.

 

[Samson]

Members seem interested in what Machiavelli has to say, so here is some of it. (He has said here that he is Yummi who wrote the following).

1. The SC definitively established that Guede acted with other people, and that he could not be holding the murder weapon. This is what the Italian newspapers pointed out yesterday.
2. Cassazione didn't throw out the final verdict on Guede, nor the Chieffi verdict. They are all still valid, this is the bizarre thing.
3. If the Guede verdict is reviewed and changed, if there is no evidence of multiple attackers, then he could not be convicted at all. There is no chance he could be convicted as a lone perpetrator. If there is no evidence that multiple attackers were there - we know 100% there is of course - but assume there isn't, then try to imagine if there could be evidence that he did everything alone: zero evidence that he broke the window, zero evidence that he could perform all physical actions alone and leave those traces, zero evidence he walked back to lock the door or washed himself in the bathroom on the murder scene, zero evidence he came back to alter the scene. Absolutely zero possibility to present a consistent scenario on that evidence. Guede cannot be accused of this.

 

[anglolawyer]

Time for RandyN's take, as posted on Facebook:

Thats right Alexander...the reporter asked Knox yesterday, "who killed Kercher?" The answer to that has always been so clear that one would have to be a dense to not really know that answer. And the Perugia prosecutor and police and several lower court judges knew that answer as well....Rudy Guede killed poor Miss Kercher. You really have to have a wild imagination to fall for all the varying stories that were used to try to implicate RS and AK. Forget trying to weave in the lack of evidence. The failed CSI ...the abusive interrogation without lawyers, the continued denial of attorney's up until the minute of the first hearing. The numerous sub-related cases filed by the prosecutor to either deny a fair and free press or to intimidate witnesses or even scare the families into silence for talking about their daughter's beatings at the hands of police. There are literally more than a hundred examples of official abuse, lies and deceit. Witnesses lying in court, prosecutors trying to sneak fake documents into the court record...(this would be the fake control data sheets)...twice the judge caught them and twice let them slide... If the average joe knew the true facts of the level of corruption in this case they would howl for justice...but not for Miss Kercher or her family...that time passed long ago when the real killer Guede was given only a slap, meanwhile they worked for the devil to convict two completely innocent persons. Only a fool would not know this. Not the average joe, because most people could not spend the time to study the facts, but certainly the families? Please....how can anyone be that oblivious? I feel sorry for them on two counts...they lost a loved one and second they were cheated and lied to by police and prosecutor and a dishonest lawyer or three. Who burns up 4 computers and then denies a defense motion to try and recover and repair this damage... caused by who? Why the police thats who. And THEN...as if it never happened, to try and use the now lack of data to prove that what??? A relationship never happened? The roommates were not friends? The alibi was no good. It is a case so full of wrong that it should go down in history for the sheer volume of mafia like behavior of the officials. All pretending. No one being fully honest...even the first appeal judge allowing a false slander charge to stand in order to save Italy a few millions in false imprisonment charges. I hope the case against this prevails in the ECOHR and that Italy is held up to the light for allowing such open and gross abuse of the law and of persons. The murdered girl and her family will never get justice. The two wrongly accused and their families suffered irreparable damages, grief and strife. Meanwhile, the real protagonists have all been happily promoted or else given a unbelievably light sentence as in Guedes case...Several of the original police have been caught up in other corrupt acts... Not small things, but tampering with evidence and going after the husband of the chiefs soon to be ex-husband. How does this movie not get made? The facts are there for a 3 movie series easily. And right...how did this mess start? What motivated this? A police informant and a whack job of a prosecutor. Not an unknown rouge but a known and examined screwball. So many corrupt acts. They cant be mistakes...Toto, the store clerk, the ear witnesses, the lab tech, the knife, the bra clasp, the fake DNA tests, the outright lies of police in court...Stefanoni stating that samples were large when they were so small as to be untestable...maybe zero in size! How did they get away with this? Not without severe cronyism and corruption. In the end they punted. I hope the Kerchers get some answers about why the Italians failed them ...but honestly how could they be so clueless after 8 years? Never an expressed doubt? That says enough for me. Trying to get clearly innocent persons locked away...using the convoluted words of a scared and confused and abused girl to arrest Lumumba and then pretending that this was not a stupid police move but rather the power and persuasion of a 19 year old non native speaking co-ed. Shameful! And then Mr Lumumba's bar is kept closed for months or until assured bankruptcy and still he slanders Miss Knox rather than suing the police for the same abuse he received from them... as Miss Knox did...beating and threats and actual abuse...why keep him out of business other than to shut him up? I could list a dozen pages of odd and irregular facts that officials used over the years but they all started with one crazy man...a chubby prosecutor from Perugia. He speaks to mediums who channel dead priests. He suspects Masons. He is "pure". Who could believe this is all true and yet it is. Impossibly weaved to be so confusing as to be unexplainable. A level of crazy that is incredulous in the amount of blatant gall required to even attempt such a farce and yet...it happened and a fair number went along for the ride on the crazy bus....sigh.

Nothing quite like a tour de force from Randy to stir the blood!

ETA reproduced with Randy's kind permission, I should add.