Merged The Ted Cruz Birther Thread

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BobTheCoward said:
For an assertion of an untested constitutional provision? What would qualify? Outside of an obvious reading?

Well, there are the 3 senators that served under age.

The next point. If congress certifies the president, who decertifies?
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BobTheCoward said:
For an assertion of an untested constitutional provision? What would qualify? Outside of an obvious reading?

Well, there are the 3 senators that served under age.

The next point. If congress certifies the president, who decertifies?
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I thought that each state's Secretary of State determines a candidate's eligiability to be on a ballot. Given that no Secretary of State would allow a non-citizen to be on a presidential ballot, then the only way a non-citizen could win electoral votes would be if the state's electors went bananas and threw the votes to someone who received no popular votes.

And even if Congress were to ignore the results of the electoral college completely , and attemp to certify a non-eligible candidate, there is a procedure in place for members of Congress to object to the certification between January 6 and the date of the oath of office.
 
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Ladewig said:
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I thought that each state's Secretary of State determines a candidate's eligiability to be on a ballot. Given that no Secretary of State would allow a non-citizen to be on a presidential ballot, then the only way a non-citizen could win electoral votes would be if the state's electors went bananas and threw the votes to someone who received no popular votes.

And even if Congress were to ignore the results of the electoral college completely , and attemp to certify a non-eligible candidate, there is a procedure in place for members of Congress to object to the certification between January 6 and the date of the oath of office.
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So we agree if congress successfully certifies that another branch doesn't have authority to stop it?
 
BobTheCoward said:
So we agree if congress successfully certifies that another branch doesn't have authority to stop it?
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I am still unsure. There is a formal procedure for members of congress to object to the certification. I don't know if SCOTUS could be brought in to that part of the fight. Also, without a "January Surprise" in which congress decides to certify someone who won neither the popular vote nor the electoral vote (nor came in second place in either of those votes), the electoral vote returns would be known immediately after the November election. There might be challenges in state (faithless elector laws) or federal courts before the congressional certification.

In any case, the whole thing sounds more like an obscure trivia question than like something we will ever see in our lifetimes.
 
Ted Cruz born in Canada - How's that work?

Sorry if this has a thread already, but I don't get how Ted Cruz thinks he can be president, if Obama is considered "invalid" by many in the GOP since we can't be sure he wasn't born in Kenya. Somehow. Did we annex Canada?:boggled:
 
I think because his mother was an American citizen, he had it at birth even though he was born in Canada. This wouldn't apply to Obama if he was actually born in Kenya (and since he wan't it is moot) because the law says something like the mother had to live in the US for five years after the age of 16 and Obama's mother gave birth at age 18. I may be messing up some of the details, but that's the gist.
 
Ted Cruz is an American. Barack Obama is an American. John McCain is an American. Mitt Romney is an American. My son is an American.

All of them have slightly different circumstances surrounding their births, but the legality of any of them running for President should not be in doubt.

Liberals/Progressives constantly bringing this up* is getting rather annoying. Is this "turnabout is fair play"? An ugly form of Tu Quoque.

*This is a sidebar conversation in every Cruz thread, every politics thread and a dozen other unrelated threads where Cruz comes up. Not picking on the OP, but could we give it a rest?
 
Tony Stark said:
I think because his mother was an American citizen, he had it at birth even though he was born in Canada.
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That's as stupid as saying someone is Jewish just because their mother is, and no more true.

I thought humanity has moved on past this sort of nonsense already, but I guess not.
 
Mudcat said:
That's as stupid as saying someone is Jewish just because their mother is, and no more true.

I thought humanity has moved on past this sort of nonsense already, but I guess not.
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I fail to see why. My brother was born in Germany but because my parents are American citizens, so is he. Should he instead be a German citizen even though he would be the only one in my family that is?

ETA: Wait are you saying that what I said is stupid? Or the law making it so that if your parent(s) are American citizens, so are you no matter where you were born?
 
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Tony Stark said:
I fail to see why. My brother was born in Germany but because my parents are American citizens, so is he. Should he instead be a German citizen even though he would be the only one in my family that is?
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It can be complicated......

I may be misremembering but a friend of mine is Thai but now a naturalised British citizen, his wife is Swedish.

Their first two children were born in the UK and were automatically granted British citizenship based on their parents' nationality and residency status.

Their third child was born in The Netherlands and because neither parent was Dutch did not get Dutch citizenship. I think he was officially stateless until his mother took him to Sweden (this is why I think I am remembering wrongly, how can a stateless child travel internationally ?) and now he is Swedish. In the event that the UK leaves the UK, this could make thing interesting in the future although at the moment they all live in the U.S.
 
Mudcat said:
That's as stupid as saying someone is Jewish just because their mother is, and no more true.

I thought humanity has moved on past this sort of nonsense already, but I guess not.
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Being Jewish is religious and/or cultural. Being American is a legal citizenship status. When did humanity move beyond country citizenship?
 
Mudcat said:
That's as stupid as saying someone is Jewish just because their mother is, and no more true.

I thought humanity has moved on past this sort of nonsense already, but I guess not.
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Except that that's the law....in both cases.

Stupid, perhaps, but the law.
 
Ted Cruz born in Canada - How's that work?

Well, when a mommy Cruz and a daddy Cruz love each other very much - even when they are in far distant Canada - they spend time with each other and become very close. Soon enough, the mommy Cruz has a tiny, tiny baby in her tummy. Not a fetus, but a fully invested human being, only really small.

After that... ask your pastor.
 
The requirement is not that you be born here. It's that you be a natural (born) citizen. One way for that to happen is if you're born here. Another is if your parents are citizens, regardless of where they are at the time of birth. It wouldn't make sense to tell citizens that their children are not citizens just because of where they were at that time.

However, there are ways that a citizen can lose the ability to pass on citizenship to children born elsewhere. For example, they can voluntarily renounce citizenship, become citizens of another country that doesn't have a dual citizenship agreement with this one, or even just spend more than a certain amount of time away (with the details on that last one being different depending on whether the child has one citizen parent or two).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birthright_citizenship_in_the_United_States
 
The confusion probably goes all the way back to Elementary school. I remember, probably 5th grade or so, learning the requirements to be US president. Now, I think that many of us at 11 years old hear "natural born citizen" and think "you must be born in America", and it just sort of sticks. I didn't figure it out until I was in my 20s and there were people saying Arnold S. wanted to have the law changed so he could run for President.
 
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