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Merged The Ted Cruz Birther Thread

Spindrift said:
It's a fact that Cruz was a US citizen at birth, as was John McCain and George Bush and Abraham Lincoln. The only reason this is even being discussed is that a lot of people would not accept the same fact about Obama.
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That's not very skeptical of you. It's a serious question, and the rules should be followed. Actually my main objection to Obama birtherism is that such arguments should have been raised at the time his announcement for President was made, so that the issue could be fairly adjudicated before the primaries had begun. Raising the issue after he had already started to win primaries, let alone the nomination, let alone the Presidency, was untimely, unfair, and ridiculous.

By the way, do you realize the birtherism stuff started with Hillary's campaign during the primaries?
 
Actually my main objection to Obama birtherism is that such arguments should have been raised at the time his announcement for President was made,
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Well, Orly Taitz was being held captive by scientologists in Iran for planning Donald Trump's run for congress, so she got delayed.
 
Upchurch said:
Weird. I wonder what the distinguishing factor was between all those...




Clearly, it was because Obama is a Democrat, amirite?
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The distinguishing factor was that since Obama's father was not a US citizen, and his mother was a just a touch too young, he would not have been a natural born citizen if his mother had actually traveled to Kenya for the birth. Obviously, the existence of a birth certificate showing he was born in Hawaii makes the whole point moot, but Obama didn't release an official copy until well after he had wrapped up the nomination and well after the conspiracy theory had taken on a life of its own. It's a common dynamic with all conspiracy theories. The longer you take to provide a key piece of evidence, the less likely that evidence will be believed once it is provided.
 
sunmaster14 said:
By the way, do you realize the birtherism stuff started with Hillary's campaign during the primaries?
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There is no evidence that her campaign had anything to do with it. Certainly she was never a birther herself. And of course it was the GOP who ended up with a bunch of conspiracy theory loons in their party.
 
sunmaster14 said:
That's not very skeptical of you. It's a serious question, and the rules should be followed. Actually my main objection to Obama birtherism is that such arguments should have been raised at the time his announcement for President was made, so that the issue could be fairly adjudicated before the primaries had begun. Raising the issue after he had already started to win primaries, let alone the nomination, let alone the Presidency, was untimely, unfair, and ridiculous.
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What's to be skeptical of? Cruz's mother is an American. He could have been born on Pluto and he'd still be an American. Same as Obama.

sunmaster14 said:
By the way, do you realize the birtherism stuff started with Hillary's campaign during the primaries?
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The fact it didn't work for her didn't deter others from beating that deceased equine.
 
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Tony Stark said:
There is no evidence that her campaign had anything to do with it. Certainly she was never a birther herself. And of course it was the GOP who ended up with a bunch of conspiracy theory loons in their party.
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Even if it did, the far right did her a huge favor by adopting it for themselves.
 
Spindrift said:
What's to be skeptical of? Cruz's mother is an American. He could have been born on Pluto and he'd still be an American. Same as Obama.
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Well, no. Under the law at the time, a US citizen mother had to have lived in the US for five years after her fifteenth birthday in order for her child to have US citizenship if born abroad. Since she was nineteen at the time, if Barack had been born outside the US, he would not have been born a US citizen.

Since he was born in Hawaii, it’s a moot point, but that was why the birther crowd was so hell-bent on showing he was born in Kenya. It was the best legal argument that they had. After that it went downhill in a hurry, with the British dual-citizenship argument, the school-enrolement silliness, and the complete swan dive off the cliffs of insanity of the Indonesian passport/travel ban theory.
 
Random said:
Well, no. Under the law at the time, a US citizen mother had to have lived in the US for five years after her fifteenth birthday in order for her child to have US citizenship if born abroad. Since she was nineteen at the time, if Barack had been born outside the US, he would not have been born a US citizen.

Since he was born in Hawaii, it’s a moot point, but that was why the birther crowd was so hell-bent on showing he was born in Kenya. It was the best legal argument that they had. After that it went downhill in a hurry, with the British dual-citizenship argument, the school-enrolement silliness, and the complete swan dive off the cliffs of insanity of the Indonesian passport/travel ban theory.
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Link to that law?
 
Spindrift said:
Link to that law?
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Here you go, under subsection G. Got the dates a bit wrong, it's five years after the mothers 14th birthday, and Ann Dunham gave birth at 18. Please note that the current law says two years after the 14th birthday, but if you look under the "Notes" tab, you can see where the law was changed in 1986.

Again, all irrelevant since he was born in Hawaii...
 
Bikewer said:
They actually discussed this seriously on NPR yesterday when announcing the Cruz news. (Nice ring to that...Cruz News...)
Anyway....The Constitution apparently specifies "Natural Born" citizen. However, they did not bother to specify what that term means. So Cruz is indeed a citizen, but he was born in Canada.
One could argue that he was "natural born" in that he was not decanted from a test tube (so far as we know...) but does "natural born" mean "In the United States"?

This has actually been challenged in court a couple of times in history, but the courts decided that the plaintiffs had no "standing".... No one could be shown to have been harmed.
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I guess nether of my kids can grow up to be president ether, they were both C-sections. :(
 
Doesn't Canada have government-run health insurance? That alone makes Cruz kind of suspicious to me. He ain't from around here, and he was subject to Canadian (which shares the three letters with Communism) propaganda at a very early age. How do we know that, once in office, he wouldn't give Maine and the upper peninsula of Michigan to Canada?
 
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sunmaster14 said:
The distinguishing factor was that since Obama's father was not a US citizen,
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Neither was Cruz's father, a Cuban national, who didn't become a US citizen until 2005

sunmaster14 said:
and his mother was a just a touch too young, he would not have been a natural born citizen if his mother had actually traveled to Kenya for the birth.
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I've heard brithers make that argument, too, but I've never seen any legal support for the argument.

I would like to see some legal precedent for this, although I doubt there is any.


Aside from birther conspiracy theories, there is no rational difference between Obama and those other guys except ...you know ...the obvious.
 
Upchurch said:
Neither was Cruz's father, a Cuban national, who didn't become a US citizen until 2005


I've heard brithers make that argument, too, but I've never seen any legal support for the argument.

I would like to see some legal precedent for this, although I doubt there is any.


Aside from birther conspiracy theories, there is no rational difference between Obama and those other guys except ...you know ...the obvious.
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8 U.S. Code § 1401 - Nationals and citizens of United States at birth as it is today. In 1986 the section was amended thusly:*
Subsec. (g). Pub. L. 99–653 substituted “five years, at least two” for “ten years, at least five”.
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* Select NOTE tab at link for source.
 
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Metullus said:
8 U.S. Code § 1401 - Nationals and citizens of United States at birth as it is today. In 1986 the section was amended thusly: Subsec. (g). Pub. L. 99–653substituted “five years, at least two” for “ten years, at least five”.
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Yeah, I know. Hawaii was an "outlying possession" since 1898 and a was a state prior to Obama's birth. His mother resided in the US her entire life prior to Obama's birth.

I was asking for a legal precedent for the child of an underaged US citizen and resident, especially the mother, with one foreign parent not getting citizenship.
 
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