Continuation Part 14: Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito

[Magister]

Yes, he did. But at least at that time he knew that Knox was in the same position behind bars. This time of course Knox will be free in the US while he would be in prison. That said, the name of Raffaele's book is "Honor Bound" This is one reason tHat I think it is a joke that rags like the Daily Mail keep reporting that Raffaele is now saying that he can't say that Amanda was with him all night. I'm convinced that he'should just saying that he has no idea what happened while he was sleeping. It's just the lawyer's way of trying to separate the two so the Italians can save face.

Frank Sfarzo's latest article.
He is not impressed with Bongiorno, particularly re the separation strategy.

http://wrongfulconvictionnews.com/amanda-knox-and-raffaele-sollecito-the-science-says-innocent/

Raffaele has appeared on several tv shows recently, saying he can't remember if Amanda went out that night.

I'm trying to remain positive for tomorrow but....

 

[Bill Williams]

Yup, he always stays on just the right side of "honourable". Would be pretty easy for him to say, "Amanda's innocent, STFU auntie". Like I said, I don't blame him under the circumstances, but I'm not going to pretend that he's honourably martyring himself, cos he clearly isn't. I think he's motivated purely by practicality at this point, and throwing Amanda under the bus would open him up to some very shady accusations and a probable calunnia charge.

The ironic thing is that AFAIK, his book is available only in the USA and is in English. In the book he has a full discussion of the full-court press some members of his family subjected him to. It is ironic because perhaps his family has not read it! Who knows? The upshot of all that was he simply would not lie to save his skin.

 

[Bill Williams]

Frank Sfarzo's latest article.
He is not impressed with Bongiorno, particularly re the separation strategy.

http://wrongfulconvictionnews.com/amanda-knox-and-raffaele-sollecito-the-science-says-innocent/

Rafaelle has appeared on several tv shows recently, saying he can't remember if Amanda went out that night.

I'm trying to remain positive for tomorrow but....

It's also what he says in his look. At the time he had no particular reason to remember, and it wasn't until his own interrogation 4 nights later that it was put to him that he had to. He'd known she'd gone out on Oct 31, and from four-days' distance couldn't particularly remember which night it was that Amanda did not have to go to work. It simply was not part of his thinking, according to the book, until he was pressured to remember - without a calendar to sourt out the days of the week from the dates.

 

[acbytesla]

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I agree also, but what could he say without getting his own self in trouble. The worst he could say was I remember her going out, but could he testify that she actually left the house? He'd have to have followed her.

I've watched the movie Amelie (that's the movie they were watching during the probable TOD), and it was a nice overly cheerfully kind of movie, but I actually fell asleep while watching it... twice.

When Raffaele says he isn't sure she left the house, I personally believe that's what he's talking about. Only two people in the house. If one goes to the bathroom, who knows for sure if they didn't just leave the house and go kill their roommate.

Happens all the time,

d

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I wish that was funny but given the stakes it is hard to laugh. Amelie is considered to be a classic French rom-com. Not exactly the kind of movie you watch to work yourself into a homicidal frenzy.

 

[Chris_Halkides]

Peter Gill at the Daily Mail

EXCLUSIVE: The DNA evidence on the kitchen knife and bra clasp used against Amanda Knox is 'like a fictional CSI TV show' says world's leading forensic profiler

MichaelB,

This illustrates a key point we were discussing today: "He said: ‘It’s very, very tenuous to use this [DNA] evidence to link to the conclusion that it proves an activity such as stabbing a victim.'" The article also noted that Sollecito's appeal used Dr. Gill's book.

Carbonjam72,

Within the last month Dr. Gill has done a couple of interviews before this one. And of course the final chapter of his book is about this case. With 180 peer-reviewed papers to his credit, I think he knows what he is talking about.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-leading-forensic-profiler.html#ixzz3VMHxjW5h

 

[AmyStrange]

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I hope that some kind of sensible decision is made tomorrow but it's difficult to be optimistic. Still there is a part of me that thinks they will acquit them saying Nenccini's court ignored the most important part of their earlier ruling which is the part that said the DNA test that RIS would be decisive.

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Any who, hopefully we'll know in 24 hours,

d

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[JREF2010]

Frank Sfarzo's latest article.
He is not impressed with Bongiorno, particularly re the separation strategy.

http://wrongfulconvictionnews.com/amanda-knox-and-raffaele-sollecito-the-science-says-innocent/

Rafaelle has appeared on several tv shows recently, saying he can't remember if Amanda went out that night.

I'm trying to remain positive for tomorrow but....

I wonder how much time the Judges spend on these cases. If I recall years ago Frank called the ISC "the courts that dont care" or something like that....they have too many cases, they dont care, they just are a mess.

Why did they send the Hellman verdict back?

Why wont they send this one back again?

Its a mess, Nencini's report doesnt even make sense? How can that happen after all this time, where the Judges dont even get the story right.

The ISC....how much time do they spend reading this case? People on this forum, Guiltards and others probably know more about the details than the Judges do.

 

[carbonjam72]

I wish that was funny but given the stakes it is hard to laugh. Amelie is considered to be a classic French rom-com. Not exactly the kind of movie you watch to work yourself into a homicidal frenzy.

No, granted. But it could be the "Amelie" defense, claiming that no legitimate hetero male could watch that film without dozing off at least twice.

That could be put to experiment in the lab too, so don't laugh.

 

[carbonjam72]

And how many of Amanda's relatives have been smearing Raffaele?

Fair point. BUt Amanda is not in immediate jeopardy like Raf. And soemhow I get the feeling that citizens feel less safe in Italy from well recognized miscarriages of justice.

So not apples to apples. But point well taken.

 

[AmyStrange]

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I wish that was funny but given the stakes it is hard to laugh. Amelie is considered to be a classic French rom-com. Not exactly the kind of movie you watch to work yourself into a homicidal frenzy.

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I apologize. Sometimes, my black humor gets the better of me.

I agree about Amelie. It was a good movie. I actually enjoyed watching this movie about a perpetually sunny person who sees the good in everything and everyone, although to me that got a little annoying*, but I still liked it and still fell asleep a couple times while watching it.

And yes, that is not a movie I would watch just before going to kill someone,

d

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*Not "want to kill someone" annoying, but annoyed like "too sweet" for words annoying. Maybe Amanda identified Meredith as like the heroine and this turned into a murderous rage inside her and Raffaele went along for sheets and giggles, and it was just pure luck was already over there, and how did they know when Meredith was going to be home to begin with, and then throw a rock through the window and announce to the world "hey come look at the dead body," and on and on and on...

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[AmyStrange]

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No, granted. But it could be the "Amelie" defense, claiming that no legitimate hetero male could watch that film without dozing off at least twice.

That could be put to experiment in the lab too, so don't laugh.

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Getting paid to sleep. I like it. Where do I sign up,

d

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[Desert Fox]

I know what really happened. . . . They were actually watching "Natural Born Killers" but the file was renamed "Amelie" to fool everybody

 

[AmyStrange]

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I know what really happened. . . . They were actually watching "Natural Born Killers" but the file was renamed "Amelie" to fool everybody

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It's the only possible explanation that makes sense,

d

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[Desert Fox]

It's the only possible explanation that makes sense,

I am half afraid that that will be the next pro guilt argument

 

[Machiavelli]

Machiavelli's posts about Amanda Knox's personality are completely out of line, and without factual basis. They are not supported by anyone who knows her, or anyone who has ever met her. Just because a few college girls found some of her behavior annoying does not make her anything out of the ordinary, nor does it indicate she is mean or angry. Those who know her well have testified she is one of the kindest people they have ever met.

(...)

Straw men. This is an exercise of downplaying, denying and twisting.

Btw a statement like "not supported by anyone who knows her" is intrinsically nonsense to the point... what else but a laugh? supported by someone sho knows her... Don't you see how ridiculous you sound? "support" here means information, not supporters...

It's not based on opinions of few college girls, it is not because "a few colleg girls found annoying". No. It's information about facts, partly reported by witnesses, and it's not only the college girls: it's information about facts, partly reported facts, and those reported facts come from a variety of witnesses. There's multiple sources, includes writings and diaries, witnesses' reports and more, in all this there is abundant evidence to draw opinions about aspects of a personality.

You should rather think about your comrades mouthing that Stefanoni doesn't have a PhD or lied or that Mignini is corrupt.
You have geniuses who deduce that Meredith's friends were only catty and vicious and not reliable witnesses.
Those in your company should not dare to object to the fact that I have an opinion about a human charachter, based on evident factual data.

 

[Machiavelli]

Mignini is small potatoes, imo. He has zero weight within his own hierarchy, (my guess). Because he's a buffoon who has brought shame and ridicule on the entire judiciary already when he arrested Mario Spezi.
(...) .

Did you know that Spezi was also convicted for calunnia in Milan, and found to be a liar? And that the motivations report also acknowledges that Narducci's body was swapped?
I am talking about a calunnia conviction, not a defamation one. Has no penal effect because time limit has expired, but acknowledges a judicial truth. It's MIlan, and it's note the only one.

 

[Machiavelli]

(...)
Machiavelli has also told lies about what is in either Amanda's or Raffaele's book. He cited one of them as saying that after Meredith rejected Amanda, she walked home alone. Raffaele's book says that Amanda went out drinking with Spiros, the Greek friend, and at 1 am Raffaele met the two of them at the piazza, and Raffaele walked her home.

Machiavelli just invents things.

And this would be "the lie"?

This is exactly what I meant to say. I think I said Amanda Knox was left alone, with no one to walk her home.
Because of this, Sollecito came to pick her at the fountain and walked her home.
If it wasn't for him, she would have remained alone. And if she were not being alone, and if she was happy with friends, he wouldn't have come to walk her home. She was alone.
I think it's crystal clear.

 

[Bill Williams]

Machiavelli has also told lies about what is in either Amanda's or Raffaele's book. He cited one of them as saying that after Meredith rejected Amanda, she walked home alone. Raffaele's book says that Amanda went out drinking with Spiros, the Greek friend, and at 1 am Raffaele met the two of them at the piazza, and Raffaele walked her home.

Machiavelli just invents things.

And this would be "the lie"?

This is exactly what I meant to say. I think I said Amanda Knox was left alone, with no one to walk her home.
Because of this, Sollecito came to pick her at the fountain and walked her home.
If it wasn't for him, she would have remained alone. And if she were not being alone, and if she was happy with friends, he wouldn't have come to walk her home. She was alone.
I think it's crystal clear.

Machiavelli. Raffaele clearly says she was not left alone, she was with the Greek friend.

I don't think you are a liar. I think you are so embedded in your confirmation bias that it blinds you to the plain text. Did you not read the part about Spiros?

 

[Bill Williams]

Straw men. This is an exercise of downplaying, denying and twisting.

Btw a statement like "not supported by anyone who knows her" is intrinsically nonsense to the point... what else but a laugh? supported by someone sho knows her... Don't you see how ridiculous you sound? "support" here means information, not supporters...

It's not based on opinions of few college girls, it is not because "a few colleg girls found annoying". No. It's information about facts, partly reported by witnesses, and it's not only the college girls: it's information about facts, partly reported facts, and those reported facts come from a variety of witnesses. There's multiple sources, includes writings and diaries, witnesses' reports and more, in all this there is abundant evidence to draw opinions about aspects of a personality.

You should rather think about your comrades mouthing that Stefanoni doesn't have a PhD or lied or that Mignini is corrupt.
You have geniuses who deduce that Meredith's friends were only catty and vicious and not reliable witnesses.
Those in your company should not dare to object to the fact that I have an opinion about a human charachter, based on evident factual data.

Your opinion does not matter. For the record, my opinion doesn't matter either!

The ONLY reason we are talking about this is that, as you summarized upthread, Mignini raised all this at the 2009 trial.

The bizarre thing is that you then implied that anyone who would do that is incompetent and doesn't know the law!

 

[carbonjam72]

MichaelB,

This illustrates a key point we were discussing today: "He said: ‘It’s very, very tenuous to use this [DNA] evidence to link to the conclusion that it proves an activity such as stabbing a victim.'" The article also noted that Sollecito's appeal used Dr. Gill's book.

Carbonjam72,

Within the last month Dr. Gill has done a couple of interviews before this one. And of course the final chapter of his book is about this case. With 180 peer-reviewed papers to his credit, I think he knows what he is talking about.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-leading-forensic-profiler.html#ixzz3VMHxjW5h

Yes, I didn't communicate well here. Dr Gill has been terrific in speaking out on this case. My sense is that he wrote his book in large measure because he wanted to have a chapter on this case.

His previous statements though have been very cautious, criticizing the DNA evidence without taking an overt position on guilt or innocence, IIUC.

I'm just a little amazed that after 7+ years, within hours of a final verdict, we're finally having an unequivocal statement from a a leading authority, in no uncertain terms, that the DNA evidence used to convict isn't just weak, but that you'd have to be an idiot to believe the arguments its being used in.

I'm glad to see it being said, I'm just a little perplexed that its taken this long for people in a position to make these kinds of statements in public, to do so. I'm not talking of US experts. Where are all the British crime scene investigation experts explaining the case? Where are all those people?

Why have the Kerchers been allowed to go on talking about their "search for truth" without being asked to actually deal with the evidence?