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Continuation Part 14: Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito

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That's all clear-cut and true, but after the 2013 ISC decision and the Nencini trial, we know that they operate on expediency and favour, rather than logic and justice - which really weren't considerations in 2013 and won't necessarily be in play now.

The Mignini faction within the judiciary have shown a single-minded determination to pin the crime on Amanda, yet they know they have little chance of getting her back in their clutches. At the same time, it's bad PR within Italy to lock up a young Italian who was never their target (except as a lever against her).

Of course, I have no handle on whether this ISC panel is in thrall to Mignini or not.

Mignini is small potatoes, imo. He has zero weight within his own hierarchy, (my guess). Because he's a buffoon who has brought shame and ridicule on the entire judiciary already when he arrested Mario Spezi.

So no, cassation is not enthrall to Mignini. But the party to which Mignini belongs within the judiciary may be another matter. So protecting or reacting to Mignini, I don't buy that. But the larger political forces, is what I think has and will determine the course of the case.

It would be nice if justice mattered, or were the priority, but I think its a secondary consideration.
 
I'm not actually saying it's a nation wide looney bin at all. Just that logic seems to have little to do with how justice operates in Italy. I was shocked when the acquittals were annulled. This case is a disaster from any pr perspective so why would they keep it alive? The opportunity was perfect for putting this mess away and they declined to do that.

Perhaps I just don't understand the political elements at play in Italy.

Girlanda had a letter signed by (IIRC) 11 legislators demanding an investigation of the prosecutors and judges in the Kercher case after the acquittals, while the prosecutors and judiciary were trying to put Burlesconi in jail (CBS article from Doug Loughini? IIRC).

If cassation didn't overturn the acquittals, they would have opened up their membership to a politically motivated investigation, with no reason to expect it to be any more fair than any other trials in Italy.

Not saying you have to agree, its speculative of course. But more believable to me that people do things for reasons, than because they are illiterate monkeys incapable of simple logic.
 
I would call what he did as tactical not really turning on her.
Technically though, they have better evidence against him than her.


It's tactical, sure, but Raff hasn't made any attempt to stop his supporters in Italy basically accuse Amanda of committing the murder alone. He's done as much as he can to appear to be turning on her without actually saying the words. Probably because if he does actually throw her under the bus he'll end up with a callunia conviction for his previous statements!
 
It's tactical, sure, but Raff hasn't made any attempt to stop his supporters in Italy basically accuse Amanda of committing the murder alone. He's done as much as he can to appear to be turning on her without actually saying the words. Probably because if he does actually throw her under the bus he'll end up with a callunia conviction for his previous statements!

I think Raf is desperate, and tempted, but he can't. I think he is a person for whom honor and doing the right thing actually means something. I think its so much a core part of his identity that he wouldn't know how to lie or "throw her under the bus". It's not in his nature, he lacks the guile. They both do. They're not made of the same coarse sleazy clay as Mignini or Maresca. Not all people are the same. Some stink. Raf's ok, imo.
 
I think Raf is desperate, and tempted, but he can't. I think he is a person for whom honor and doing the right thing actually means something. I think its so much a core part of his identity that he wouldn't know how to lie or "throw her under the bus". It's not in his nature, he lacks the guile. They both do. They're not made of the same coarse sleazy clay as Mignini or Maresca. Not all people are the same. Some stink. Raf's ok, imo.


Man you're optimistic! He knew Amanda for a week and if he was that fussed about honour he wouldn't let his bonkers relatives smear her. I'm sticking with my avoiding-calunnia theory!
 
Girlanda had a letter signed by (IIRC) 11 legislators demanding an investigation of the prosecutors and judges in the Kercher case after the acquittals, while the prosecutors and judiciary were trying to put Burlesconi in jail (CBS article from Doug Loughini? IIRC).

If cassation didn't overturn the acquittals, they would have opened up their membership to a politically motivated investigation, with no reason to expect it to be any more fair than any other trials in Italy.

Not saying you have to agree, its speculative of course. But more believable to me that people do things for reasons, than because they are illiterate monkeys incapable of simple logic.

While what you say maybe correct and this was done entirely because of political reasons, it still seems crazy. But I know that politics often make little sense to outsiders. Logic tells me that they will confirm the convictions because the court of cassation got the result that they demanded in their earlier ruling. Still, I remain hopeful that they will rule in Knox'so favor because part of their earlier ruling emphasized the importance, even deciveness of further DNA testing which went entirely in Knox's favor.
 
I think Raf is desperate, and tempted, but he can't. I think he is a person for whom honor and doing the right thing actually means something. I think its so much a core part of his identity that he wouldn't know how to lie or "throw her under the bus". It's not in his nature, he lacks the guile. They both do. They're not made of the same coarse sleazy clay as Mignini or Maresca. Not all people are the same. Some stink. Raf's ok, imo.

I agree. So far Raf has proven to me that he is a stand up guy. But that could easily disappear when faced with the real possibility of spending the next two decades in prison .
 
Man you're optimistic! He knew Amanda for a week and if he was that fussed about honour he wouldn't let his bonkers relatives smear her. I'm sticking with my avoiding-calunnia theory!

Apparently just today one of the "bonkers-relatives" figured out that they've been manipulated by anonymous guilters. One Twitterer who'd been silent on Raffaele's guilt, just today admitted to one of the aunts that he/she believes Raffaele is guilty, but "thank you for all the documents".

If I were a relative of someone in the position either of the two innocents are, I'd be bonkers too.
 
It's tactical, sure, but Raff hasn't made any attempt to stop his supporters in Italy basically accuse Amanda of committing the murder alone. He's done as much as he can to appear to be turning on her without actually saying the words. Probably because if he does actually throw her under the bus he'll end up with a callunia conviction for his previous statements!

Raffaele has twice said that the only two people competent to speak on his behalf about his legal position are himself and Bongiorno.
 
I agree. So far Raf has proven to me that he is a stand up guy. But that could easily disappear when faced with the real possibility of spending the next two decades in prison .

He's faced it already and didn't crack. He had confidence and courage, he fought and won. Even from jail, there's still the ECHR, as long as he keeps fighting. WHat kind of a life would it be to admit to a crime you didn't do. You'd still be in a prison of reputation, seen as a confessed murderer. It would be accepting defeat, really accepting death. There is no choice but to fight this phoney buffoon Mignini to the end, and I am betting on Raf to win. Mignini's only win in the shadows, when they can tilt the odds in their favor.

Did you see the article linked to above, Gill's intevriew with the Daily Mail?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...V-says-world-s-leading-forensic-profiler.html

Too bad he couldn't have said something sooner. he sure waited for the last minute. Jesus, why didn't he just hop a plane and crash the courtroom like Perry-f'in Mason?
 
Raffaele has twice said that the only two people competent to speak on his behalf about his legal position are himself and Bongiorno.

Yup, he always stays on just the right side of "honourable". Would be pretty easy for him to say, "Amanda's innocent, STFU auntie". Like I said, I don't blame him under the circumstances, but I'm not going to pretend that he's honourably martyring himself, cos he clearly isn't. I think he's motivated purely by practicality at this point, and throwing Amanda under the bus would open him up to some very shady accusations and a probable calunnia charge.
 
Apparently just today one of the "bonkers-relatives" figured out that they've been manipulated by anonymous guilters. One Twitterer who'd been silent on Raffaele's guilt, just today admitted to one of the aunts that he/she believes Raffaele is guilty, but "thank you for all the documents".

If I were a relative of someone in the position either of the two innocents are, I'd be bonkers too.


And how many of Amanda's relatives have been smearing Raffaele?
 
He's faced it already and didn't crack. He had confidence and courage, he fought and won. Even from jail, there's still the ECHR, as long as he keeps fighting. WHat kind of a life would it be to admit to a crime you didn't do. You'd still be in a prison of reputation, seen as a confessed murderer. It would be accepting defeat, really accepting death. There is no choice but to fight this phoney buffoon Mignini to the end, and I am betting on Raf to win. Mignini's only win in the shadows, when they can tilt the odds in their favor.

Did you see the article linked to above, Gill's intevriew with the Daily Mail?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...V-says-world-s-leading-forensic-profiler.html

Too bad he couldn't have said something sooner. he sure waited for the last minute. Jesus, why didn't he just hop a plane and crash the courtroom like Perry-f'in Mason?

Yes, he did. But at least at that time he knew that Knox was in the same position behind bars. This time of course Knox will be free in the US while he would be in prison. That said, the name of Raffaele's book is "Honor Bound" This is one reason tHat I think it is a joke that rags like the Daily Mail keep reporting that Raffaele is now saying that he can't say that Amanda was with him all night. I'm convinced that he'should just saying that he has no idea what happened while he was sleeping. It's just the lawyer's way of trying to separate the two so the Italians can save face.
 
"MY, WHAT BIG TEETH YOU HAVE..."

http://gmancasefile.com/1/post/2015/03/my-what-big-teeth-you-have.html

EXCLUSIVE: The DNA evidence on the kitchen knife and bra clasp used against Amanda Knox is 'like a fictional CSI TV show' says world's leading forensic profiler

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-leading-forensic-profiler.html#ixzz3VLxyXUS8
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

Wow, never thought I'd see an article like that from the Daily Mail. Awesome! But they do manage to throw in a "Foxy Knoxy" reference or two...

Let's see what tomorrow brings. It should be interesting either way!
 
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I'm not in favor of going completely cynical, and saying that they are all mad buffoons (although there are a few).

I'd rather try to view this as 'inside baseball' to some degree, and a cascade of errors, with a few bad players driving the train.

I think the conflict with Burlesconi absolutely played a role in the rejection of Hellman's acquittal, based on judge Hellman saying it did. Hellman said, as soon as it became political, he knew the acquittal would get overturned.

I blame Girlanda for that. And I doubt Girlanda would do that on his own. I find it very curious that Burlesconi was finally acquitted by cassation last week (you could sense the cessation of hostilities), and Girlanda's party was put under investigation (including Girlanda), and Girlanda's boss resigned.

Rudy Guede got another 1.5 years (?) on his sentence for possession of stolen property, so the murderer of Meredith will be in jail for a bit longer.

I may be way off, Bill W says I'm nuts, but I swear to god, I smell a deal. Renzi doesn't want to be put in the middle, so they cut a deal - the judiciary lets Burlesconi off as a gesture of good faith, but they keep the scalp of Girlanda's boss as the price for threatening them over this case, and they have Girlanda on a short leash if he tries to make trouble after the acquittals.

The kerchers have their daughter's killer still in jail, its something at least, and Italy doesn't have to look like a country of anti-modern medieval barbarians.

Its easier for me to believe, then the comical dysfunctional societal wide looney bin you're suggesting.

But who really knows?

Anyway, that's my guess as to what happened and why. Amanda and Raf were trapped in Mignini's witch hunt, because he needed a girl for his satanic orgy hoax that he had been perpetuating in the Narducci trail, a distraction from his own criminal case, and a misdirection for his failure to prosecute Guede for his earlier crimes.

I could go on. Ok, I will. The judiciary was protecting the MOF convictions of Vanni and Lotti, without affirming the Giuttari/Mignini Monster/MOF satanic sect hoax, and they slowly freed Amanda and Raf after they obligingly spent four years in prison. While the judiciary eased Mignini out of his prosecutor's role, and can't cause anymore trouble in his new role.

Girlanda tries to use the case against the judiciary as part of the battle between the judiciary and Burlesconi's party. And now that battle has subsided, so the full weight of the Italian state TV and media is pumping out non-stop favorable coverage of Raffaele (neutral to Amanda), and discrediting the case against them.

I smell a deal. I see an acquittal coming. Best I can do. So, they're not crazy, just not drawing conclusions based on the evidence, justice is not as big a priority as self-preservation. They're doing the best they can, while living in a moderately corrupt society in the heart of modern europe.
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They also postponed the original date from January (I think) to March 25th (tomorrow).

Why would they do that if they were just going to rubber stamp the guilty verdict? Why bother postponing it at all?

I personally believe (have a feeling) they will send it down for a fourth re-trial (or whatever they call it in Italy) with strict instructions to only look at, in detail, a specific short list of items...

And then, they'll acquit.

It does seem odd that Raffaele would be acquitted. Like someone else here noted, there is better evidence against him than Amanda,

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I agree. So far Raf has proven to me that he is a stand up guy. But that could easily disappear when faced with the real possibility of spending the next two decades in prison .
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I agree also, but what could he say without getting his own self in trouble. The worst he could say was I remember her going out, but could he testify that she actually left the house? He'd have to have followed her.

I've watched the movie Amelie (that's the movie they were watching during the probable TOD), and it was a nice overly cheerfully kind of movie, but I actually fell asleep while watching it... twice.

When Raffaele says he isn't sure she left the house, I personally believe that's what he's talking about. Only two people in the house. If one goes to the bathroom, who knows for sure if they didn't just leave the house and go kill their roommate.

Happens all the time,

d

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They also postponed the original date from January (I think) to March 25th (tomorrow).

Why would they do that if they were just going to rubber stamp the guilty verdict? Why bother postponing it.

I personally believe they will send it down for a fourth re-trial (or whatever they call it in Italy) with strict instructions to only look at, in detail, a specific short list of items...

And then, they'll acquit.

It does seem odd that Raffaele would be acquitted. Like someone else here noted, there is better evidence against him than Amanda,

d

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I hope that some kind of sensible decision is made tomorrow but it's difficult to be optimistic. Still there is a part of me that thinks they will acquit them saying Nenccini's court ignored the most important part of their earlier ruling which is the part that said the DNA test that RIS would be decisive.
 
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