Continuation Part 13: Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito

[NancyS]

Out of many problems with Machiavelli's own summary of Mignini's speech about the psychosexual maladies he sees in Amanda Knox.....

.... are the highlighted bits.

Like everything on the PM/Judge side of things, they get to speculate; something "may have happened", something "may be true" even if there was nothing entered at trial.

Yet the burden on the defence!? As per contamination - it is not required that a DNA lab show it has competence or even follows protocol, other than asking the technician herself.... but the defence has to prove a route of contamination!

However, getting back to the specifics of Machiavelli's excellent summary of Mignini's sexual fantasies about this case, where is the evidence that:

1) Knox had a psychological profile of a "humiliated/wounded self"?
2) Meredith was cutting Knox out of the circle of friendship? (Where is there any evidence that Meredith was this catty?)
3) Meredith was disturbed by some of Knox's sexual behaviours? (For heaven's sake, they borrowed condoms from each other.)
4) Amanda was offended by Meredith's (imagined) attitude? (Note how Mignini buttresses one fantasy with another!)
5) There was ANY element of sexual revenge, or even simple revenge in this killing? (Massei is plain in saying the trigger for the killing was Rudy's lust.)
6) Raffaele used "extensive" drugs, as opposed to Rudy simply only using drugs?
7) Sexual violence, other than Rudy's lust, was the trigger for this murder?
8) Knox regarded Meredith as "prissy"?
9) That Knox had an ability to manipulate Guede and/or Sollecito, particularly since there is no record of Knox ever, in any meaningful sense, communicating with Guede?
10) Guede and Sollicto were competing for Amanda's attention?​

This is all Mignini's fantasy, built on his "may haves". Can you imagine sitting their in court listening to yourself described this way, knowing that your fate is in the hands of a madman, and that because he is a PM, the court will listen to him, just because?

Exactly, it really is erotic fiction

 

[Bill Williams]

In a crime like this, one's sex life will be brought up... whether it's Jodi Arias, Casey Anthony, or Amanda Marie Knox.

That says it all really - and the logical conclusion from this, is that the defence should have countered with some of the rather indelicate claims that have been made about Meredith Kercher's sex-life, in order to prove that she had no reason to disapprove of Amanda's sex-life. I find it incredibly depressing that people have these views

In fact, not to do this with all the friends reveals this investigation's fatal flaw.

It was suspect-centric. Even Massei has the decency in his 2010 report to at least raise this as an issue. Yet, Massei ultimately rejects that this was a suspect-centric investigation/prosecution because..... people like Mignini and Stefanoni told him it wasn't.

 

[christianahannah]

That says it all really - and the logical conclusion from this, is that the defence should have countered with some of the rather indelicate claims that have been made about Meredith Kercher's sex-life, in order to prove that she had no reason to disapprove of Amanda's sex-life. I find it incredibly depressing that people have these views

I dont think the claim was that Meredith disapproved of Amanda's sex life but rather that she did not feel comfortable with some of the people Amanda was bringing to the cottage.

 

[Chris_Halkides]

rifling through magazines

An amateur blog. Written in English. Is the equivalent of the "Italian Press"?

Please name any Italian newspaper or magazine that published that photo before or during the trail.

Vibio,

Are you the same commenter who claimed that Ms. Knox was not a big news story in Italy who then ignored the fact that you were presented with articles referring to Ms. Knox being on the cover of one or more Italian magazines? If so, then your assertions about Italian media have little credibility. My point is that the image was easily accessible to Italians and (given the name of the blog) something that a citizen of Perugia might follow.

 

[Bill Williams]

An amateur blog. Written in English. Is the equivalent of the "Italian Press"?

Please name any Italian newspaper or magazine that published that photo before or during the trail.

There are many who now look at Perugia Shock as the only "press" which understood this case.

 

[Bill Williams]

I dont think the claim was that Meredith disapproved of Amanda's sex life but rather that she did not feel comfortable with some of the people Amanda was bringing to the cottage.

Was Meredith uncomfortable with Amanda bringing Raffaele to the cottage?

 

[christianahannah]

Are you saying that you think Rudy's burglary history is normal?

No but being a burglar does not mean you are also a murderer. I understand why prior acts are brought into court, such as Rudy's burglaries, Amanda's ticket or Raffaele's drug history but that doesn't necessarily mean one will be a murderer.

 

[MichaelB]

Posted on Remo Croci's Facebook page.

Per gli errori ed orrori commessi in questa vicenda investigatori e giudici andrebbero rimossi. Addirittura la Corte d'Appello di Firenze ha trasformato un'impronta di scarpa in un'orma di piede femminile e addirittura attribuito un Dna a Sollecito sul coltello quando nessuna perizia lo ha mai accettato.For the mistakes and atrocities committed in this matter investigators and judges should be removed. Even the court of appeal of florence has turned a shoe impression in a footprint of Foot female and even given a dna to urge on the knife when any expertise it has never accepted.

Google:

For the mistakes and atrocities committed in this matter investigators and judges should be removed. Even the court of appeal of florence has turned a shoe impression in a footprint of Foot female and even given a dna to urge on the knife when any expertise it has never accepted.

Per la prima volta da quando seguo casi di cronaca sento il dovere di fare delle scuse ad uno degli indagati. Nel caso specifico si tratta di Raffaele Sollecito. Nel novembre del 2007 seguii per conto del tg5 il delitto di Meredith Kercher e fin dai primi giorni avevo maturato la convinzione che il giovane allora studente pugliese fosse coinvolto nel delitto. Il mio convincimento era dettato esclusivamente dalle informazioni che venivano fornite da parte degli inquirenti. Un castello di accuse che sembrava inattaccabile. Il mio errore fu quello di credere a tutto ciò che gli stessi investigatori mi fornivano in materia di informazioni. Non avevo la controprova degli atti. L'elemento determinante fu quando il pm Mignini ( che pur convinto che Mez fosse stata uccisa dopo un'orgia non chiese l'esame delle tracce biologiche sul cuscino vicino al corpo della vittima ) ci racconto' che Amanda nell'attesa di essere interrogata confido' alle amiche di Mez che era stata uccisa con un taglio alla gola. Come poteva saperlo se non aveva mai visto il corpo? Era dunque la prova che la studentessa stesse mentendo e che avesse partecipato al delitto. Quando pero' alla prima udienza del processo i volontari del 118 raccontarono che erano stati loro ad informare Amanda e Raffaele di come fosse stata uccisa Meredith iniziai a capire che ci avevano raccontato una marea di informazioni 'pilotate' a cui seguirono molte altre. La contaminazione del gancetto del reggiseno è la punta dell'Icerberg. Dopo 46 giorni duranti i quali in quella stanza entrarono tutti e di tutto come poteva non essere contaminato il gancetto? E quelle immagini girate dalla Scientifica sul rinvenimento a distanza del gancetto? Roba da film comico se non fosse per la drammatica vicenda di Meredith. Come potevo credere che uomini dello Stato potessero giungere a tanto? La risposta è' arrivata qualche anno dopo con molti di questi uomini e donne in divisa che sono stati rimossi dai loro incarichi.Ora attendo che le scuse ufficiali siano pronunciate da una sentenza mercoledì prossimo. Sarebbe il giusto riconoscimento ad un ragazzo al quale sono stati tolti 8 anni della propria vita.

Google:

For the first time since i have been following cases of record i feel obliged to do an apology to one of the Suspects. In this case it comes to raffaele sollecito. In november 2007 i followed on behalf of the tg5 the murder of meredith kercher and from the early Days i had become convinced that the young then student pugliese was involved in crime. My conviction was dictated exclusively by the information that were provided by the investigators. A castle of charges that seemed airtight. My mistake was to believe everything that the same investigators they provided me with in the field of information . i did not have the controprova acts. The deciding factor was when the pm mignini ( although convinced that mez had been killed after a Orgy not churches the examination of biological evidence on the pillow next to the body of the victim ) told us ' that amanda while waiting to be questioned i trust ' to the friends of mez that she was killed with A cut the throat. How could you know that if he had never seen the body? It was so proof that the student was lying and that had participated in the crime. When but to the first hearing of the process the volunteers from 118 they told that had been to them Inform amanda and raffaele of as had been killed meredith started to realize that we were told a lot of Information ' also be fraudulent ' to which followed many others. The contamination of the bra clasp is the tip of the icerberg. After 46 days during whichgenerous in that room entered everyone and everything how could it not be Contaminated the gancetto? And those images turn by the scientific on finding distance of the gancetto? Stuff from comedy movie if it were not for the tragic fate of meredith. How could i believe that men of the state could achieve so much? The answer is ' arrived a few years later with many of these men and women in uniform that have been Removed from their posts. Now i am waiting for the apology officers are made by a judgment next wednesday. It would be the right recognition to a boy to which were taken out 8 years of their lives.

 

[christianahannah]

Was Meredith uncomfortable with Amanda bringing Raffaele to the cottage?

I don't recall reading in any of the transcripts or other venues that Meredith had spoken negatively of Raffaele but I could be wrong. I think most of the visits from guys happened before Amanda's meeting Raffaele. How many visits and who they were I don't know and I don't believe most, if not all, were of a sexual nature. I think Meredith's concerns may have been more a matter of safety and infringement of privacy (part my opinion). I don't think Raffaele ever spent the night at the cottage did he and only visited twice I think.

 

[MichaelB]

Btw, there is another significant error in Nencini concerning the phone calls on page 170.

Filomena Romanelli indeed made two unsuccessful calls to the service used by Amanda Marie Knox, at 12:12:35 pm and at 12:20:44 pm, and let the defendant’s telephone ring for 36 seconds the first time, and for a good 65 seconds the second time; an insistence that appears normal for anyone who intends to speak on the telephone with someone who, however, does not immediately answer the telephone. The telephone is allowed to ring for a considerable period of time in the hope of receiving a reply before resigning oneself to ending the call.

He's screwed it up and those two phone calls were Filomena calling Amanda NOT Meredith. Filomena only called Meredith once and it lasted one second. (I have the phone logs)

 

[LondonJohn]

Thank you for this. When listening to Mignini speak (from many avenues) I thought there would be more to it. He is very articulate and very deliberate in his speech.

Journalists may be constrained in what they write by time, space, language barrier, and not being present at an event of which they are responsible for covering. And the translation aspect from Italian to English is sometimes difficult to convey in its entirety.

I really don't understand your position. Mignini, indisputably, put forward a speculative narrative of the murder in his closing argument in the Massei trial. Do you agree about that? And within that narrative, Mignini put speculative words into Knox's mouth, which translate accurately into "You were such a little saint… now we are going to force you to have sex". Do you agree about that?

And if you don't agree, why not? And if you do agree, then how and why are you seeking to excuse Mignini on this specific issue? Had the same thing been said by a prosecutor in a UK (E/W) or US court, it would have been struck out immediately, with serious ramifications for the prosecutor concerned. How can you see this as anything other than Mignini inventing dialogue out of whole cloth to place into Knox's mouth, in order to paint a vivid, sexually-charged and (fictionally) pejorative picture to the jurors?

 

[LondonJohn]

No but being a burglar does not mean you are also a murderer. I understand why prior acts are brought into court, such as Rudy's burglaries, Amanda's ticket or Raffaele's drug history but that doesn't necessarily mean one will be a murderer.

Cute way you've implied some degree of equivalence to those three things. Nicely done!

 

[LondonJohn]

Btw, there is another significant error in Nencini concerning the phone calls on page 170.



He's screwed it up and those two phone calls were Filomena calling Amanda NOT Meredith. Filomena only called Meredith once and it lasted one second. (I have the phone logs)

That passage you've quoted does talk about Romanelli calling Knox (and not Kercher) though.......

 

[NancyS]

I don't recall reading in any of the transcripts or other venues that Meredith had spoken negatively of Raffaele but I could be wrong. I think most of the visits from guys happened before Amanda's meeting Raffaele. How many visits and who they were I don't know and I don't believe most, if not all, were of a sexual nature. I think Meredith's concerns may have been more a matter of safety and infringement of privacy (part my opinion). I don't think Raffaele ever spent the night at the cottage did he and only visited twice I think.

Most of the visits? Was there any evidence presented that Amanda was bringing home multiple guys or that Meredith was concerned about her safety and infringement of privacy? Or is this just made up?

 

[NancyS]

I dont think the claim was that Meredith disapproved of Amanda's sex life but rather that she did not feel comfortable with some of the people Amanda was bringing to the cottage.

Except if you read Machiavelli's post again, this is exactly what he was saying.

 

[NancyS]

Cute way you've implied some degree of equivalence to those three things. Nicely done!

Exactly - as if the normal student habits of smoking a bit of cannabis and having a loud party, can be equated with burglary

 

[Diocletus]

No but being a burglar does not mean you are also a murderer. I understand why prior acts are brought into court, such as Rudy's burglaries, Amanda's ticket or Raffaele's drug history but that doesn't necessarily mean one will be a murderer.

You're wrong. Burglary (breaking and entering a residence in order to commit a crime) is a very serious felony for the exact reason that burglaries many times turn into rapes/murders when the residence turns out to be occupied.

A ticket for having a noisy party and smoking a j is in no way comparable.

 

[Diocletus]

I dont think the claim was that Meredith disapproved of Amanda's sex life but rather that she did not feel comfortable with some of the people Amanda was bringing to the cottage.

Were they worse than giacomo?

 

[MichaelB]

That passage you've quoted does talk about Romanelli calling Knox (and not Kercher) though.......

Yep, you're right. let me try again

Nencini uses Filomena's unanswered calls to Amanda to show Amanda's attempted calls to Meredith are suspicious by comparsion yet completely ignores Filomena's call to Meredith lasted only a second which makes his whole argument null and void.

The telephone is allowed to ring for a considerable period of time in the hope of receiving a reply before resigning oneself to ending the call.
But that did not happen when Amanda Marie Knox called the two cell phones used by Meredith Kercher. These are two calls that barely registered.

 

[NancyS]

You're wrong. Burglary (breaking and entering a residence in order to commit a crime) is a very serious felony for the exact reason that burglaries many times turn into rapes/murders when the residence turns out to be occupied.

It's important to remember this - and it is so much easier to believe this is what happened, although I guess it is in no way as titillating and without the bizarre sexed-up version, this case would have been put to rest a long time ago.

I would be interested in knowing more about Guede - it seems that journalists spent a lot of effort trying to dig up dirt about Amanda and couldn't find much more than having a noisy party and having the occasional one-night stand. I would definitely be interested in knowing more about whether Guede was suffering from a dissociative disorder prior to murdering Meredith Kercher - this would suggest some severe trauma in his background and that he was likely to also have been hyper-vigilant, which could have caused him to be violent if caught in an enclosed space.