DOJ: Ferguson PD descrimination against blacks is routine

[Gawdzilla Sama]

It's a question, not a quote.

When did I ever say they should do nothing?

In the same breath you said I said they could do nothing.

We've reached the zero advance point here. Why don't you and I go down to 2560 Lucas And Hunt Rd and take this up there?

 

[wareyin]

When I said "read the thread" I meant more than just the last page.

Way to dodge the point.

 

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Way to dodge the point.

My point is you're bringing up points that have already been discussed. You can add to those if you find them, but restarting them is something you'll be doing without me.

 

[wareyin]

My point is you're bringing up points that have already been discussed. You can add to those if you find them, but restarting them is something you'll be doing without me.

As your discussion consisted of "Good excuse" for every single point, followed by another voting platitude, I'm not sure how much more a discussion would provide.

 

[Upchurch]

In the same breath you said I said they could do nothing.

I didn't, but here's the point: when working under a corrupt and oppressive system, working within that system isn't always the best approach. The colonists began sabotaging the British (which eventually led to war, but let's hope it doesn't come to that). Slaves ran away from their masters (again: war, hope not).

It's not a binary vote or do nothing. There are other options, like protesting and bringing the corruption to light and having the Feds step in. There is dissolving the township.

I was brought up to believe that democracy always works, but the fact is, it has always just worked for my white male self. I've never lived under an oppressive regime, or even really saw one, until I saw cops shooting tear gas at and arresting reporters. The system is desperately broken and I don't see how voting out a handful of elected officials is going to magically fix all that.

Personally I think a whole lot of education needs to happen, but that's probably off topic.

 

[Gawdzilla Sama]

As your discussion consisted of "Good excuse" for every single point, followed by another voting platitude, I'm not sure how much more a discussion would provide.

I said there were always excuses for not voting. You got to read the thread.

 

[wareyin]

I said there were always excuses for not voting. You got to read the thread.

I said I have, and your previous "discussion" wasn't very productive. It appears that isn't going to change.

 

[Gawdzilla Sama]

I said I have, and your previous "discussion" wasn't very productive. It appears that isn't going to change.

If you read then you're deliberately misrepresenting my views. May you live long and prosper.

 

[Wolrab]

What I'm being told in this thread:
1) Black people are too lazy to vote. Except everywhere they do.
2) Black people are like dogs and can't vote because they are to cowed (wiki link way up thread) . Except every other place they do.
3) Blacks cannot change overnight. Except for embracing high technology along with social networks and stuff that wasn't around in the recent past.
4) Black people work too much and can't be bothered to run for office or vote. Except when they do.
5) Black people can't confront a corrupt system. Except when the do.
6)Black people can't organize an election effort or put forth candidates. Except for all the other places they do just that.
7) Black people don't trust the election system. Except when the do.
8) Black people can't scrounge up enough money to field candidates in a city of 20000. Except it is done all over the place.

There's plenty more excuses throughout the thread.

 

[Wolrab]

Maybe MTV should get involved and do a Rock the Vote drive.

 

[Darat]

What I'm being told in this thread:
1) Black people are too lazy to vote. Except everywhere they do.

Evidence - link to a post would do it.

2) Black people are like dogs and can't vote because they are to cowed (wiki link way up thread) . Except every other place they do.

Evidence - link to a post would do it.

3) Blacks cannot change overnight. Except for embracing high technology along with social networks and stuff that wasn't around in the recent past.

Evidence - link to a post would do it.

4) Black people work too much and can't be bothered to run for office or vote. Except when they do.

Evidence - link to a post would do it.

5) Black people can't confront a corrupt system. Except when the do.

Evidence - link to a post would do it.

6)Black people can't organize an election effort or put forth candidates. Except for all the other places they do just that.

Evidence - link to a post would do it.

7) Black people don't trust the election system. Except when the do.

Evidence - link to a post would do it.

8) Black people can't scrounge up enough money to field candidates in a city of 20000. Except it is done all over the place.

Evidence - link to a post would do it.

There's plenty more excuses throughout the thread.

Lets just get through the ones you've already claimed before moving on to any additional ones.

 

[wareyin]

If you read then you're deliberately misrepresenting my views. May you live long and prosper.

I'll never understand the technique of posting short, simple posts, then complaining that one is being misrepresented when those posts are quoted and responded directly to, all the while refusing to point out where or how one is misrepresented.

Perhaps I am somehow misreading your posts, but you appear to have very plainly dismissed any reason to not vote as an excuse, even if there is only one candidate running unopposed. You have also very plainly claimed that not voting equates to approval of the current system, when the 2 are not related at all.

It's almost like refusing to clear up a misunderstanding means you approve of the way your post is being read.

 

[Gawdzilla Sama]

I'll never understand the technique of posting short, simple posts, then complaining that one is being misrepresented when those posts are quoted and responded directly to, all the while refusing to point out where or how one is misrepresented.

I often post from a cell phone stuck to the underside of a board over my head. Apologies if that makes your life too difficult.

 

[Monketi Ghost]

I often post from a cell phone stuck to the underside of a board over my head. Apologies if that makes your life too difficult.

+1
I use voice because my hands are too shaky and by the time I've spoken and then corrected things before posting, a post can take five minutes or more unless I keep it to the point.

 

[wareyin]

I often post from a cell phone stuck to the underside of a board over my head. Apologies if that makes your life too difficult.

I could easily and snarkily dismiss this as an excuse for not being clear, but instead I will point out that it looks like more effort is spent explaining typing difficulties than would be spent clarifying a misunderstanding.

 

[jimbob]

What I'm being told in this thread:
1) Black people are too lazy to vote. Except everywhere they do.

Evidence - link to a post would do it.

2) Black people are like dogs and can't vote because they are to cowed (wiki link way up thread) . Except every other place they do.

Evidence - link to a post would do it.

3) Blacks cannot change overnight. Except for embracing high technology along with social networks and stuff that wasn't around in the recent past.

Evidence - link to a post would do it.

4) Black people work too much and can't be bothered to run for office or vote. Except when they do.

Evidence - link to a post would do it.

5) Black people can't confront a corrupt system. Except when the do.

Evidence - link to a post would do it.

6)Black people can't organize an election effort or put forth candidates. Except for all the other places they do just that.

Evidence - link to a post would do it.

7) Black people don't trust the election system. Except when the do.

Evidence - link to a post would do it.

8) Black people can't scrounge up enough money to field candidates in a city of 20000. Except it is done all over the place.

Evidence - link to a post would do it.

There's plenty more excuses throughout the thread.

Lets just get through the ones you've already claimed before moving on to any additional ones.

.[/QUOTE]

Thank you Darat.

But the citizens are the ones who have no excuses?

After this many years? No, they have no excuses.

The more I think about it, the sillier this argument seems.

To me, the silliest aspect is ascribing collective responsibility to a population for not voting*, which is very indirect, whilst the individual officers and court officials were directly responsible for their illegal actions. Judge Brockmeyer is the most obvious example. He has resigned from Ferguson, does anyone know if he is still on the bench in the other municipalities where he presided?

There have been plenty of "good reasons" why someone might decide not to vote and even more why they might not want to stand, reducing the potential pool of candidates.

Newyorkguy made the observation that even if the municipal government became 100% black, they would need strong evidence to remove the racist cops.

I don't know what the proportion of white racist voters is in St Louis County, but Ferguson was majority white until the last Census.

One argument that I haven't seen yet is that many of the people targeted by the FPD came from nearby areas and not Ferguson itself. Are they to blame for not voting in Ferguson? If not, how other than protesting would they be supposed to effect change?

The protests have succeeded in forcing the resignation of several of the higher profile offenders within the FPD. Why does anyone think that was the wrong approach?




*I don't know the turnout for Ferguson municipal elections, so don't know how accurate this is.

 

[dudalb]

Once again,please explain to me how you are going to get change without electing new people to public office.
Frankly, I smell a lot of 60's psuedo revoultionary romanticism that rejects voting as the most important step because it is not "radical " enough.

 

[Upchurch]

Once again,please explain to me how you are going to get change without electing new people to public office.

One way would be to dissolve the township, or even just the PD, sending it back into unincorporated status as part of St. Louis County.

Now, would you explain to me how changing out a few elected officials will change much of anything? Are the four politicians currently up for re-election the root cause of the systemic racism in Ferguson's justice system?

 

[Wolrab]

Evidence - link to a post would do it.


Evidence - link to a post would do it.


Evidence - link to a post would do it.


Evidence - link to a post would do it.


Evidence - link to a post would do it.


Evidence - link to a post would do it.


Evidence - link to a post would do it.


Evidence - link to a post would do it.



Lets just get through the ones you've already claimed before moving on to any additional ones.

Have you read the past couple of pages of this thread?

If I have time later I'll link to all of those.

 

[Mumbles]

What I'm being told in this thread:
1) Black people are too lazy to vote. Except everywhere they do.

I don't think people quite understand this. Me? As of now, I'm fine wealthy, I walk in and vote locally, the end.

My mother? She literally vomited in the street while pregnant with me, and waited to vote for hours.

Voting can literally take you hours of just standing in line - which is absurd. It's not a matter of laziness, it's time.