Upchurch
Papa Funkosophy
Don't forget too lazy. Lot of that going on in this thread, too.
DOJ: Ferguson PD descrimination against blacks is routine
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Don't forget too lazy. Lot of that going on in this thread, too.
Tsukasa Buddha
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Not sure how this squares with "they just need to vote them out".
Gawdzilla Sama
TImeToSweepTheLeg
Has anybody actually dumbed it down that far?
Upchurch
Papa Funkosophy
Or, and this may sound crazy, maybe the people in the Ferguson justice system could take responsibility for their actions and stop targeting black people.
Enough excuses, indeed.
True enough. Why, after all these years has there not been a civilian oversight committee investigating the abuses? Aen't these usually appointed by the city council or the Mayor?
Upchurch
Papa Funkosophy
For that matter, why has there not been an internal affairs investigation into the abuses? Why has the Mayor or Chief of Police not called for an investigation?
Newtons Bit
Penultimate Amazing
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The city council was pushing the FPD to issue more and more citations for revenue generation. They're not going to challenge the FPD for doing what the city council ordered them to do.
Upchurch
Papa Funkosophy
I think Wolrab's point is that it isn't the government's responsibility to protect the rights of the citizens. If the citizens don't do it themselves, that's on them.
newyorkguy
Penultimate Amazing
There have been cities where people have done just what some of the posters here have been suggesting on the local level: they organized grassroots committees, developed candidates and made sure they got elected. Then they discover there are real problems that all the good intentions in the world don't fix.
That's why I was interested in the median income, median housing price, rate of property tax etc in Ferguson. It takes dollars to run a city government. People I know who have served in city government say the most unsettling thing they discovered once they got themselves elected was: most of the costs are mandated through a local sharing requirement with a variety of federal and state programs. The amount of money a city spends that is purely discretionary is small. One area where the city does control spending is with the municipal work force. However, most city employees are unionized. They work under a contract and work rules are negotiated with the unions. Even discipline procedures are arrived at through collective bargaining.
If Ferguson elected a black majority city council and black mayor they would not be able to fire cops they believed were racist bullies without cause. They would have to go through a process that takes a good amount of time. In the meantime the people who elected them are becoming disillusioned.
I saw a PBS broadcast of a 'town meeting in Ferguson' several months ago. One of the things that struck me was that many of the younger black people made the same comment: "We've had a black President for six years. I voted for him twice. And not a damn thing around here has changed."
That's why I was interested in the median income, median housing price, rate of property tax etc in Ferguson. It takes dollars to run a city government. People I know who have served in city government say the most unsettling thing they discovered once they got themselves elected was: most of the costs are mandated through a local sharing requirement with a variety of federal and state programs. The amount of money a city spends that is purely discretionary is small. One area where the city does control spending is with the municipal work force. However, most city employees are unionized. They work under a contract and work rules are negotiated with the unions. Even discipline procedures are arrived at through collective bargaining.
If Ferguson elected a black majority city council and black mayor they would not be able to fire cops they believed were racist bullies without cause. They would have to go through a process that takes a good amount of time. In the meantime the people who elected them are becoming disillusioned.
I saw a PBS broadcast of a 'town meeting in Ferguson' several months ago. One of the things that struck me was that many of the younger black people made the same comment: "We've had a black President for six years. I voted for him twice. And not a damn thing around here has changed."
Upchurch
Papa Funkosophy
newyorkguy
Penultimate Amazing
Thanks but I had already found and posted some information in this thread about six days ago. That's what I was referencing when I said I had become interested.
Of course the government should protect the citizens and their rights. This government didn't and should have been changed years ago.
Upchurch
Papa Funkosophy
But the citizens are the ones who have no excuses?
Upchurch
Papa Funkosophy
Hm. And, yet, they clearly haven't voted people out. Why do you think that is?
SezMe
post-pre-born
Given the nature of the thread topic, this is an excellent typo.
What about the municipalities where there was a majority of racists? What should blacks do there? I am assuming that given the patchwork and petty fiefdom nature of municipalities, this is almost certainly going to be the case in some situations.
The activities of the FPD were already illegal. The citizens of Ferguson already do have protection under the law - it just needs to be enforced and the recourse to that enforcement has to be above the municipality. EIther at State or Federal level.
Wolrab, someone could make the same argument you are making in the early 1960s. In the end it took Federal action because the deck was stacked against the blacks at the local and state level so that they were disenfranchised.
Ferguson was majority white as late as 2000. That obviously doesn't mean that there was a majority of racists - there was at the least a significant minority of influential racists within FPD and the court system.
newyorkguy put it well:
If you are struggling to make ends meet and your police force regards you as a potential cash cow to be shaken down whenever they want, then as newyorkguy says, then deciding to stand as a candidate is going to be even tougher - is there any point voting if the candidate is unopposed, or there is nothing to suppose that there is any difference between candidates?
As for actually *standing*, that takes more time and effort, as well as a belief that you can do something once elected. Having either several low wage jobs, or a zero-hours job will make that even harder. Given the behaviour of many court officials and officers within the FPD, I'd guess that someone who did decide to stand would probably be labelled a troublemaker and find their life very difficult. Even if that was not the case - it would be a reasonable belief for a black in Ferguson to hold.
Even if one did stand, that would only be one seat - one'd need a majority to begin to effect change.
I am not going to blame anyone for not standing for municipal election when I don't think I'd be willing to do so if I were in their shoes.
ETA: We do know that at least one councilor was worried about justice - he didn't want Brockmeyer to be reselected because of his poor behaviour in cases - ignoring evidence etc. This was rejected:
'In 2012, a Ferguson City Councilmember wrote to other City officials in opposition to Judge Brockmeyer’s reappointment, stating that “[the Judge] does not listen to the testimony, does not review the reports or the criminal history of defendants, and doesn’t let all the pertinent witnesses testify before rendering a verdict.” The Councilmember then addressed the concern that “switching judges would/could lead to loss of revenue,” arguing that even if such a switch did “lead to a slight loss, I think it’s more important that cases are being handled properly and fairly.” The City Manager acknowledged mixed reviews of the Judge’s work but urged that the Judge be reappointed, noting that “(i)t goes without saying the City cannot afford to lose any efficiency in our Courts, nor experience any decrease in our Fines and Forfeitures.”'
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There is another aspect.
The court officials and FPD officers were individually responsible for their actions of malpractice. The citizens of Ferguson are not individually responsible for these.
Many would have voted. They might have voted for a losing candidate.
ponderingturtle
Orthogonal Vector
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Ah so second amendment solutions.
Gawdzilla Sama
TImeToSweepTheLeg
The DOJ isn't going to premature any prosecutions.