Global warming discussion III

[macdoc]

The Anthropocene: Was 1610 the start of the Age of Man?
New epoch in Earth’s history in which humans are the dominant agent of change
By Bob McDonald, CBC News Posted: Mar 13, 2015 1:21 PM ET Last Updated: Mar 13, 2015 4:03 PM ET

The landing of Christopher Columbus is seen as a predecessor to the Anthropocene, or the Age of Man, a new epoch in which humans became the greatest agents of change on Earth.

A recent report in the journal Nature is proposing the year 1610 as the beginning of what has become known as the Anthropocene –​ literally, the Age of Man – a new epoch in the Earth’s geological history in which the dominant agent of change is humanity.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/technology/the-anthropocene-was-1610-the-start-of-the-age-of-man-1.2993907

 

[Haig]

This year, nothing spectacular is going to happen regarding Arctic sea ice, but the melting season starting early, being fast in the beginning and stopping in late Summer when it deals with thickest-in-5-years multi-annual ice. Maybe a Summer like 2010's or 2011's.

Sure nothing spectacular is going to happen regarding Arctic sea ice but in central Italy ...

Mini Ice Age 2015-2035 | World Snow Record 8+ Feet/18 Hours Southern Italy

Published on 11 Mar 2015
Italy sets new one day world snowfall record
Capracotta and Pescocostanzo, between Abruzzo and Molise in central Italy are officially the snowiest places in the world, Meteoweb.eu writes.

https://youtu.be/IDclbzNVZGI


And yet more bad news for the Warmists ...


Bad News for Trenberth’s Missing Heat – New Study Finds the Deep Oceans Cooled from 1992 to 2011 and…

The global integral of vertical heat flux shows an upward heat transport in the deep ocean, suggesting a cooling trend in the deep ocean. These results support an inference that the near-surface thermal properties of the ocean are a consequence, at least in part, of internal redistributions of heat, some of which must reflect water that has undergone long trajectories since last exposure to the atmosphere. The small residual heat exchange with the atmosphere today is unlikely to represent the interaction with an ocean that was in thermal equilibrium at the start of global warming.

 

[Haig]

There never was any “Missing Heat”, just computer models that needed justification based on an initial false premise.

Claim: Climate communication needs to be less optimistic, more ‘climate disruption’

It is a little difficult to see exactly how climate alarmists could tone down the optimism in their doom laden pronouncements. How do you reduce the optimism implicit, in say James Hansen’s boiling ocean / runaway greenhouse scenario?

 

[Jrrarglblarg]

There never was any “Missing Heat”, just computer models that needed justification based on an initial false premise.

Claim: Climate communication needs to be less optimistic, more ‘climate disruption’

Your link to an opinion blog does not support your claim. Please try again.

 

[Jrrarglblarg]

Sure nothing spectacular is going to happen regarding Arctic sea ice but in central Italy ...

Mini Ice Age 2015-2035 | World Snow Record 8+ Feet/18 Hours Southern Italy

A snowstorm is weather, not climate.

 

[lomiller]

A snowstorm is weather, not climate.

Furthermore rain and snow are the end state of evaporation, unless you think all the water that evaporates in the heat just keeps building up in the atmosphere forever.

Warmer planet > more evaporation > more snow/rain so while it is just weather it's an example of the type of future weather that can be expected on a warmer planet.

 

[Haig]

Furthermore rain and snow are the end state of evaporation, unless you think all the water that evaporates in the heat just keeps building up in the atmosphere forever.

Warmer planet > more evaporation > more snow/rain so while it is just weather it's an example of the type of future weather that can be expected on a warmer planet.

And how do you think ICE AGES came about ? When is the next one due or overdue ? Would you have us believe AGW was the cause of ALL the past and future ICE AGES or even Little Ice Ages

 

[Jrrarglblarg]

Nice strawman. Thanks for the bingo square.

 

[Haig]

Nice strawman. Thanks for the bingo square.

That's no strawman it's a major stumbling block for your Warmist mantra

If you can't explain the Global Warming and Cooling of the past then your Catastrophic Anthropomorphic Global Warming is just so much Hot Air

Cooling or Warming? Scientists Present Past Climate Change Conundrum

 

[Jrrarglblarg]

The strawman is where you appear to think scientists see only one possible cause.

 

[aleCcowaN]

Oh, someone is in Haig-mood today!

Sure nothing spectacular is going to happen regarding Arctic sea ice but in central Italy ... Mini Ice Age 2015-2035 | World Snow Record 8+ Feet/18 Hours Southern Italy

https://youtu.be/IDclbzNVZGI

Dismissed. Next...

And yet more bad news for the Warmists ...


Bad News for Trenberth’s Missing Heat – New Study Finds the Deep Oceans Cooled from 1992 to 2011 and…

The title doesn't match the content. Something that happens frequently in Tisdale's.

And the paper's based on computer models. Well, mainly this one. The model was fed with the scarce information available before 2002, so, from 1992 to 2011 you have standard deviations larger than mean values (page 23 and following)

So, Haig, "deedley-dee, oceans cooling"? No. Regards to Tisdale, Watts and Indiana Jones.

(Through the door) Neeext!!!

 

[Haig]

Oh, someone is in Haig-mood today!

Dismissed. Next...

And yet IF it had been World record heat you Warmists would have it plastered all over as "Proof" of AGW

Hypocritical or what

The title doesn't match the content. Something that happens frequently in Tisdale's.

And the paper's based on computer models. Well, mainly this one. The model was fed with the scarce information available before 2002, so, from 1992 to 2011 you have standard deviations larger than mean values (page 23 and following)

So, Haig, "deedley-dee, oceans cooling"? No. Regards to Tisdale, Watts and Indiana Jones.

Ah! but AGW is based on computer models and very over egged ones at that !

The facts this paper presents confound "it's the Oceans that ate our Heat Warmists" mantra ...

That inference is based on the assumption that the ocean was in equilibrium with the atmosphere before any extra heat entered. When interpreting measurements of the ocean heat content, it is often assumed that the disturbances arise only from the recent past. However, as emphasized by Wunsch and Heimbach (2014) and the present analysis, the long integration times in the ocean circulation imply an observed response involving the time history of the circulation over hundreds of years, at least.

And keeping in mind that Balmaseda et al. (2013) was one of the papers that claimed to have found part, but not all, of Trenberth’s “missing heat”:

Global average cooling in the deep ocean conflicts with some previous ocean heat content estimates (e.g. Balmaseda et al. 2013), but is consistent with the long thermal memory of the ocean, and with other recent studies (e.g. Durack et al. 2014; Llovel et al. 2014).

http://wattsupwiththat.com/2015/03/...the-deep-oceans-cooled-from-1992-to-2011-and/

(Through the door) Neeext!!!

Still think you are that "bouncer job" ?

 

[aleCcowaN]

How pink of you!

And how do you think ICE AGES came about ? When is the next one due or overdue ? Would you have us believe AGW was the cause of ALL the past and future ICE AGES or even Little Ice Ages

Speaking of overdue, you have hundreds of points you were asked in the past -near or not- . Let's repeat some that are related with your recent posts (and adapted to them): how does it vary the incoming solar shortwave radiation top of the atmosphere through a solar cycle? What is the Earth doing during this millennia according to Milankovitch? In this, why does Antarctica radiate in a day of Summer less than the Arctic radiate in a day of Winter? And why are places away from the polar regions that are radiating even less? how does that relate to Italian snow and to Italian ice-cream?

That's no strawman it's a major stumbling block for your Warmist mantra

Translated into Commonsensese: That's not a strawman, it's a matryoshka doll made with nesting strawmen!

 

[Haig]

How pink of you!




Speaking of overdue, you have hundreds of points you were asked in the past -near or not- . Let's repeat some that are related with your recent posts (and adapted to them): how does it vary the incoming solar shortwave radiation top of the atmosphere through a solar cycle? What is the Earth doing during this millennia according to Milankovitch? In this, why does Antarctica radiate in a day of Summer less than the Arctic radiate in a day of Winter? And why are places away from the polar regions that are radiating even less? how does that relate to Italian snow and to Italian ice-cream?



Translated into Commonsensese: That's not a strawman, it's a matryoshka doll made with nesting strawmen!

What you Warmists ignore is that our Variable Star is heading for a Grand Solar Minimum and ALL the Planets are changing ... So is our Earth ... but just a bit slower than the rest of the planets due to the heat sink Oceans but they are giving up their heat as this paper shows HERE


It's the Sun
Solar Wind Loses Power: http://science1.nasa.gov/science-news/science-at-nasa/2008/23sep_solarwind/
Solar Activity Headed for Lowest Low in 4 Centuries: http://www.newscientist.com/article...owest-low-in-four-centuries.html#.VPok8BZ1tV5
Strange Doings on the Sun: http://www.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702304672404579183940409194498

The Entire Solar System is Shifting
Venus Winds: http://www.esa.int/Our_Activities/S...ss/The_fast_winds_of_Venus_are_getting_faster
Venus Rotation: http://www.esa.int/Our_Activities/Space_Science/Venus_Express/Could_Venus_be_shifting_gear
Mars Warming: http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2007/02/070228-mars-warming.html
Jupiter Stripe: http://science.nasa.gov/science-news/science-at-nasa/2010/20may_loststripe/
Red Jr: http://science.nasa.gov/science-news/science-at-nasa/2006/02mar_redjr/
Jupiter Radio Emission: http://www.science20.com/news_articles/now_broadcasting_radio_jupiter-93369
Saturn Superstorm: http://science.nasa.gov/science-news/science-at-nasa/2011/19may_saturnstorm/
Uranus Auroras: http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2012/04/120413-uranus-auroras-science-space-hubble/
Uranus Storms: http://arxiv.org/pdf/1501.01309v1.pdf


Try and deal with the FACTS presented here ... if you can

 

[aleCcowaN]

Ah! but AGW is based on computer models and very over egged ones at that !

AGW is based in a whole corpus of science. The assertion from Tisdale's you endorse is conveniently based on one model and one paper. For denialists, models are the devil, but this devil is an archangel because by itself and itself alone it might give something to contradict AGW provided you skimmed through it very quickly.

Not so common from Tisdale's to do the gullible slip. He's usually tortuous. Not your case. I bet the guy who bought the Brooklyn Bridge twice from the same seller was your mentor.

Still think you are that "bouncer job" ?

People aren't jobs. People have jobs. Leave the language troubles to me. I have a legitimate excuse.

My job here is show the general public on a regular basis that the only denialists left here are unable to follow an argument. They just throw precooked links gotten in denialist websites and move to the next one like hummingbirds. Most of these denialists cultivate a "neener! neener!" style. Some of them try to be feisty, others are more the leprechaun style -or garden gnomish-.

 

[aleCcowaN]

What you Warmists ignore is that our Variable Star is heading for a Grand Solar Minimum and ALL the Planets are changing ... So is our Earth ... but just a bit slower than the rest of the planets due to the heat sink Oceans but they are giving up their heat as this paper shows HERE


It's the Sun
Solar Wind Loses Power: http://science1.nasa.gov/science-news/science-at-nasa/2008/23sep_solarwind/
Solar Activity Headed for Lowest Low in 4 Centuries: http://www.newscientist.com/article...owest-low-in-four-centuries.html#.VPok8BZ1tV5
Strange Doings on the Sun: http://www.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702304672404579183940409194498

The Entire Solar System is Shifting
Venus Winds: http://www.esa.int/Our_Activities/S...ss/The_fast_winds_of_Venus_are_getting_faster
Venus Rotation: http://www.esa.int/Our_Activities/Space_Science/Venus_Express/Could_Venus_be_shifting_gear
Mars Warming: http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2007/02/070228-mars-warming.html
Jupiter Stripe: http://science.nasa.gov/science-news/science-at-nasa/2010/20may_loststripe/
Red Jr: http://science.nasa.gov/science-news/science-at-nasa/2006/02mar_redjr/
Jupiter Radio Emission: http://www.science20.com/news_articles/now_broadcasting_radio_jupiter-93369
Saturn Superstorm: http://science.nasa.gov/science-news/science-at-nasa/2011/19may_saturnstorm/
Uranus Auroras: http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2012/04/120413-uranus-auroras-science-space-hubble/
Uranus Storms: http://arxiv.org/pdf/1501.01309v1.pdf


Try and deal with the FACTS presented here ... if you can

I don't think I'd stand looking at Uranus and its mighty storms, no matter how pretty its auroras promise to be.

About the rest and their relation to AGW, I hold a similar opinion.

Yet, my questions above stand -and they relate to what you think you posted- so, birdie, birdie, what are you doing? moving to the next wallflower?

 

[Haig]

AGW is based in a whole corpus of science. The assertion from Tisdale's you endorse is conveniently based on one model and one paper. For denialists, models are the devil, but this devil is an archangel because by itself and itself alone it might give something to contradict AGW provided you skimmed through it very quickly.

Not so common from Tisdale's to do the gullible slip. He's usually tortuous. Not your case. I bet the guy who bought the Brooklyn Bridge twice from the same seller was your mentor.

Gezz I thought for a minute there you were going to use that old lie of "97% of climate scientists believe in AGW"

People aren't jobs. People have jobs. Leave the language troubles to me. I have a legitimate excuse.

My job here is show the general public on a regular basis that the only denialists left here are unable to follow an argument. They just throw precooked links gotten in denialist websites and move to the next one like hummingbirds. Most of these denialists cultivate a "neener! neener!" style. Some of them try to be feisty, others are more the leprechaun style -or garden gnomish-.

Ah! so you think you're a gatekeeper I would have never have known

Can you sort this out Mr Bouncer please ?

The Future is Uncertain
Landscheidt on Future: http://johnosullivan.livejournal.com/49089.html
Sea Study Says Cooling: http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2005/11/1130_051130_ice_age_2.html
Trends Point to Ice: http://www.cbn.com/cbnnews/healthsc...r-Up-Mounting-Evidence-Belies-Global-Warming/
Dr. Sircus: http://drsircus.com/world-news/polar-vortex-introduces-us-to-the-coming-ice-age
11,000 Years of Temperature: http://capitolcommentary.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/Temperature_swings_11000_yrs.jpg
Antarctic Ice on CO2 and Temp: http://www.daviesand.com/Choices/Precautionary_Planning/New_Data/IceCores1.gif
Vostok Confirmation: http://www.climatedata.info/resources/Proxies/Ice-Cores/05-Vostok-temperature-and-CO2.gif

 

[Haig]

I don't think I'd stand looking at Uranus and its mighty storms, no matter how pretty its auroras promise to be.

About the rest and their relation to AGW, I hold a similar opinion.

Yet, my questions above stand -and they relate to what you think you posted- so, birdie, birdie, what are you doing? moving to the next wallflower?

Not very good at looking at the big picture are you ?

The Climate is Changing Unexpectedly
The Global Warming Pause: http://www.climatedepot.com/2014/09/07/global-warming-pause-extends-to-17-years-11-months/
Forbes Article: http://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesta...-unravels-the-ipcc-is-in-damage-control-mode/
NASA Data Shows Pause/Ice: http://www.thenewamerican.com/tech/...bal-warming-still-on-pause-sea-ice-hit-record
Volcano Under Antarctica: http://www.livescience.com/41262-west-antarctica-new-volcano-discovered.html
NOAA Data: http://www.climate.gov/#climateWatch
Recent Temp Graph: http://www.woodfortrees.org/plot/gi.../from:1995/to:2016/plot/rss/from:1995/to:2016
US 2014 Temps: http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/sotc/service/national/Statewidetrank/201401-201412.gif
US Coldest Year 2014: http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/sotc/service/national/divisionaltmaxrank/201401-201412.gif
2000 Years of Data: http://www.drroyspencer.com/global-warming-background-articles/2000-years-of-global-temperatures/
Model vs Reality: http://notrickszone.com/2014/10/10/...-hemisphere-temperature/#sthash.OXJ5cC9i.dpbs
Failed Predictions: http://wattsupwiththat.com/2014/04/02/the-big-list-of-failed-climate-predictions/
73 Failed Models: http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article...-un-climate-models-wrong-no-global-warming-17
New World Snow Record: http://www.weather.com/storms/winte...therChannel_Weather_JBa_Article_No_6_20150310
August 2014 Climate Update: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_xfi940PyCo&list=PLHSoxioQtwZcqdt3LK6d66tMreI4gqIC-&index=8

 

[Pixel42]

And how do you think ICE AGES came about ?

The many causes have been explained to you umpteen times, and are in your link.

When is the next one due or overdue ?

Again, we have given you this information many times already.

Would you have us believe AGW was the cause of ALL the past and future ICE AGES or even Little Ice Ages

Obviously not, any more than matches caused all the forest fires that happened before matches were invented. Therefore it's impossible for forest fires to be caused by matches, which is why you're an anthropogenic fire denier.

 

[Haig]

The many causes have been explained to you umpteen times, and are in your link.


Again, we have given you this information many times already.


Obviously not, any more than matches caused all the forest fires that happened before matches were invented. Therefore it's impossible for forest fires to be caused by matches, which is why you're an anthropogenic fire denier.

So, your an ICE AGE denier

Try these links

It Is Difficult to Trust What You Hear
Brulle Funding Stats: PDF called “Institutionalizing delay: foundation funding and the creation of U.S. climate change counter-movement organizations”
Bias in Climate Reports: http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2014...expert-reveals-bias-in-global-warming-report/
Fiddling with Temp Data: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ear...data-is-the-biggest-science-scandal-ever.html
Skeptic Bought and Paid-For: http://www.bostonglobe.com/news/nat...e-agreement/Y1uMQ8yuLpYCjOHGckRArO/story.html
US Fed Climate Expenditures: http://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/def...gislative_reports/fcce-report-to-congress.pdf
Harvard: http://www.robertstavinsblog.org/2014/04/25/is-the-ipcc-government-approval-process-broken-2/
Yale: http://e360.yale.edu/feature/has_the_un_climate_panel_now_outlived_its_usefulness/2696/
IPCC History Lesson: http://www.suspicious0bservers.org/selections-from-the-1st-ipcc-full-report-wg1/
NOAA/NASA Changed Data: https://stevengoddard.wordpress.com...-altered-us-temperatures-after-the-year-2000/
Climategate 2.0: http://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesta...0-new-e-mails-rock-the-global-warming-debate/
BOM Changed Data: http://joannenova.com.au/2014/08/th...logy-altering-climate-figures-the-australian/
Paraguay Temp Data Changed: https://notalotofpeopleknowthat.wor...tampering-with-temperatures-in-south-america/
Lennart Bengtsson: http://www.thegwpf.org/lennart-beng...lerance-within-the-climate-science-community/
John Coleman: http://www.kusi.com/story/25971119/john-coleman-puts-in-his-two-cents-in-climate-change-conference
John Christy: http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/16/u...finds-himself-a-target-of-suspicion.html?_r=0
Christian Schluchter: http://notrickszone.com/2014/06/09/...e-science-into-disarray/#sthash.DQHwIDNB.dpbs
Climate Coverup: http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/science/article4091344.ece
Adult Bullying: http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/opinion/thunderer/article4091200.ece
Data Censorship: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...l-helpful-climate-cause-claims-professor.html
More Censorship: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ear...arch-because-of-climate-sceptic-argument.html