DOJ: Ferguson PD descrimination against blacks is routine

Monketey Ghost said:
I ruminate.

Still, if forced to choose, in my small capitol city where the industry is long gone, between obnoxious cops or street criminals, I'll choose the cops every time. I'll never embrace anarchy.
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Luckily, the point is that you don't have to chose between the two! My point is that neither need be accepted.
 
Gawdzilla Sama said:
I guess we can thank the media for making it look like St. Louis County is in flames. :rolleyes:
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Yes.

I want to know how much of the $5-million Police budget was spent on their revenue gathering activities.

I wonder how much worse off Ferguson would be if the police department did not exist (relying on the county force) and the current $3-million *shortfall was used elsewhere



*$2-million in revenue, and a budget of $5-million, and now I hope, a significant amount of compensation
 
Gawdzilla Sama said:
Sounds like a perfect chance for the community to take charge of the community if some of them are willing to do the hard work.
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That's the problem;showing up at protest and chanting are easy and fun;doing the hard and often boring work (envelope stuffing,etc) necessary to get somebody elected on any level to public office is not.
 
jimbob said:
Yes.

I want to know how much of the $5-million Police budget was spent on their revenue gathering activities.

I wonder how much worse off Ferguson would be if the police department did not exist (relying on the county force) and the current $3-million *shortfall was used elsewhere



*$2-million in revenue, and a budget of $5-million, and now I hope, a significant amount of compensation
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If the Ferguson PD hadn't existed St. Louis County would have been the responsible agency I believe. I don't know how much that would have changed the number of tickets being written.

You know, it might be better for Ferguson to unincorporate.
 
jimbob said:
I have quoted some of the relevant parts of the report in the other thread.
here and a couple of posts later:
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I'm not saying that there isn't something horribly wrong with what was going on with the ticketing/fines. That's pretty obvious.

I was just responding to comments that they'd have to find 2 million in revenue. That's every fine/penalty issued and I'm sure there's x% of those that were actually justified. I don't know/can't say if it's x% or X%.... I'm just pretty sure not every penny of that will represent an amount they have to figure out how to get out of the citizenry in taxes. And while I'm not going to argue as one poster was that the 24,000 citations makes sense because of all the neighboring incorporated communities, it could explain a lot of it. The citizenry doesn't pay any attention to the fact that they're crossing from one township to another. In St. Louis, what we would consider neighborhoods in other cities are all tiny incorporated entities of their own. There are about a dozen of them within 5 km of the edges of Ferguson.

Again... I'm not making excuses. Not accepting the situation. I'm just trying to put a finer point on some of the discussion of how much revenue they may need to offset, as one "argument" seemed to be heading towards, "Well, they need to make up all that money, then!"
 
Foolmewunz said:
I'm not saying that there isn't something horribly wrong with what was going on with the ticketing/fines. That's pretty obvious.

I was just responding to comments that they'd have to find 2 million in revenue. That's every fine/penalty issued and I'm sure there's x% of those that were actually justified. I don't know/can't say if it's x% or X%.... I'm just pretty sure not every penny of that will represent an amount they have to figure out how to get out of the citizenry in taxes. And while I'm not going to argue as one poster was that the 24,000 citations makes sense because of all the neighboring incorporated communities, it could explain a lot of it. The citizenry doesn't pay any attention to the fact that they're crossing from one township to another. In St. Louis, what we would consider neighborhoods in other cities are all tiny incorporated entities of their own. There are about a dozen of them within 5 km of the edges of Ferguson.

Again... I'm not making excuses. Not accepting the situation. I'm just trying to put a finer point on some of the discussion of how much revenue they may need to offset, as one "argument" seemed to be heading towards, "Well, they need to make up all that money, then!"
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Yes, but if they issued 24,000 that is an awful lot of spurious fines.

Unincorporation would be better and save money.
 
Foolmewunz said:
I was just responding to comments that they'd have to find 2 million in revenue. That's every fine/penalty issued and I'm sure there's x% of those that were actually justified. I don't know/can't say if it's x% or X%.... I'm just pretty sure not every penny of that will represent an amount they have to figure out how to get out of the citizenry in taxes. And while I'm not going to argue as one poster was that the 24,000 citations makes sense because of all the neighboring incorporated communities, it could explain a lot of it.
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*Pulls used envelop out of round file; turns it over*

Let's assume $2 mil in revenue and (to make it easy) 20,000 citations. If each citation cost $100, that generates the $2 mil. I don't find it hard to believe that an average citation would run ~$100.
 
dudalb said:
That's the problem;showing up at protest and chanting are easy and fun;doing the hard and often boring work (envelope stuffing,etc) necessary to get somebody elected on any level to public office is not.
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Yep, and the other half of the problem is getting your supporters out to actually vote. If you've been on the short end of the stick for generations, then it is damn hard to overcome the "screw it" mentality that must be all too common in the area.
 
SezMe said:
*Pulls used envelop out of round file; turns it over*

Let's assume $2 mil in revenue and (to make it easy) 20,000 citations. If each citation cost $100, that generates the $2 mil. I don't find it hard to believe that an average citation would run ~$100.
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The point was that a proportion of those citations would be justified.

I suspect that it would be a fairly small proportion, and the resource devoted to collecting the citations means that it wasn't as useful a revenue source as they assumed. After all, the police budget was $5-million per year.
 
SezMe said:
Yep, and the other half of the problem is getting your supporters out to actually vote. If you've been on the short end of the stick for generations, then it is damn hard to overcome the "screw it" mentality that must be all too common in the area.
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If folks can protest endlessly, shut down highways, etc. they probably have the time and energy.
 
Monketey Ghost said:
If folks can protest endlessly, shut down highways, etc. they probably have the time and energy.
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But if you look at a map there's no real reason to go through Ferguson to get anywhere outside of Ferguson.

Relating to the OP: I wonder how many of those tickets were written to drivers on I-270, the interstate highway that runs along the northern city limits. Every municipality that has an interstate in it seems to look at those as cash cows. :mad:
 
Checkmite said:
It is a common plot device. To urbanites, there is something chilling about the idea of a tiny town that nobody ever stops in, having a 2-to-3-man police department capable of disappearing you into the town jail, with no way to contact family or a lawyer, or heck even an outside police agency or an impartial judge.
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KatieG said:
It was very much like that in the South in days of yore. Not just in Kentucky, Alabama and Mississippi were notorious.
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It looks as if it is a justified trope, not just in days of yore, and not just in tiny towns.
 
Monketey Ghost said:
If folks can protest endlessly, shut down highways, etc. they probably have the time and energy.
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Endlessly? I'd like some support for this claim. To my memory, there was two, maybe three, since this all began.

I don't think you have a very good grasp on what is happening here.

eta: and the two I can immediately think of weren't in Ferguson. One was on highways 44 near Grand, which migrated south on Grand (not a highway). The other, I want to say was on 55 near ...Arsenal? Those are both in St. Louis City.
 
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Monketey Ghost said:
If folks can protest endlessly, shut down highways, etc. they probably have the time and energy.
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The protests sparked off a DoJ investigation that found lots of wrongdoing, and has led to resignations of some of the worst people in the FPD/court system. Looks as if they were worthwhile.
 
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