DOJ: Ferguson PD descrimination against blacks is routine

[Wolrab]

How about this...we have all elections on the same day?

Apparently, Ferguson's local elections are in the middle of April, on odd-numbered years. Well, why not just hold the elections on the same day as the presidential elections? It's simpler, it's less expensive...and so it's better. I think that that could be the start of good things...

Well Ferguson better get off the stick and get some candidates ready, I heard there might be some job openings.

 

[Upchurch]

Well Ferguson better get off the stick and get some candidates ready, I heard there might be some job openings.

Few Candidates File For Ferguson City Council Election Even After Protests

Like I've been saying:

Activists who initially sought to oust elected leaders say many residents remain disillusioned with local politics.

 

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Sounds like a perfect chance for the community to take charge of the community if some of them are willing to do the hard work.

 

[Foolmewunz]

The problem Ferguson will face is revenue. The quote from the city manager posted here -- telling the police chief if the number of tickets don't increase sharply and quickly the city faces a fiscal crisis - illustrates this. The main source of revenue for towns like Ferguson -- absent the police efforts to raise revenue -- is property taxes. That's where they have a problem.

Looking at Ferguson's profile on the city data website, the city is probably on the low-middle end of the economic range. Median household income in 2012 was $36,121 compared to a county-wide median household income of $71,442. The average sale price for homes in Ferguson was about $60,000 in 2014. (The events of last summer don't help.) The median sale price of a home in St. Louis County is $179,300.

The property tax rate in Ferguson for a house with a mortgage is listed as 1.4% in 2012. This is bit higher than St. Louis County as a whole which is listed at 1.25%. The trouble is, because the average property in the county has a much higher assessment it produces $2,238 in property tax per year. In Ferguson the average home tax bill is less than $1,400.

That's a huge disparity. Coupled with a population who earn roughly half the regional income the problem becomes: How much can we increase property tax without driving people (and businesses) away?

I don't envy them.

Ferguson court revenues from fines is about $2 million. With a population of 21,000, they need about $100/person to recover that revenue. I don't think it would be that hard to find that money without subverting the police department into taxing the poor with bogus citations...

Unless somebody has an analysis of the revenues from fines, we're jumping the gun a bit, here. e.g. if you tell the police to stop issuing their bogus tickets and the courts to stop doubling down, just how many offenses does that cover? Even in Ferguson, widely being painted as the most corrupt city on earth (y'all haven't lived in Pattaya, have you?), it's not going to be the whole 2.0 mil. Probably a smidgen of that amount.

>>>> Shooting: Very disturbing. Some ********* better get his/her ass thrown in jail toot sweet and I just hope to hell it's a "lone gunman/disaffected nut" type. Obama and Holder roundly condemned the action. I'm sure we'll hear shortly why their condemnation wasn't sufficient.

@Gawdzilla and any other locals: Any scuttlebutt on the local news? After years of being a foreign-news-searcher, the first articles that come up on my searches are all from international news sites, UK papers, and "Cakes in the News".

 

[Cleon]

The problem Ferguson will face is revenue.

If earning that revenue means they have to be a corrupt, racist police state, then I don't give two rat ****s if they go broke.

 

[Upchurch]

@Gawdzilla and any other locals: Any scuttlebutt on the local news? After years of being a foreign-news-searcher, the first articles that come up on my searches are all from international news sites, UK papers, and "Cakes in the News".

There is a parallel discussion in the Michael Brown thread with links.

More relevant, the protesters are also denouncing the shooting (and St Louis County's Police Chief for saying the shooter was "embedded" in the protesters).

http://blogs.riverfronttimes.com/dailyrft/2015/03/ferguson.php

 

[Foolmewunz]

There is a parallel discussion in the Michael Brown thread with links.

More relevant, the protesters are also denouncing the shooting (and St Louis County's Police Chief for saying the shooter was "embedded" in the protesters).

http://blogs.riverfronttimes.com/dailyrft/2015/03/ferguson.php

I saw that comment from the C.o.P. right after I saw "St. Louis County Police and State Troopers to Take Over Demonstration Policing in Ferguson".

Can I ask you guys something? Is everyone in government in Missouri just plain ******* nuts? Please tell me there's a retraction coming and that someone misquoted him.

 

[Monketi Ghost]

If earning that revenue means they have to be a corrupt, racist police state, then I don't give two rat ****s if they go broke.

LOL
You've got it wrong on both ends. Not all the local officials are corrupt and not all residents deserve to go broke because of the thugs and rioters.
"Police state", you say that so casually I almost think you don't know what it means.

 

[Upchurch]

Can I ask you guys something? Is everyone in government in Missouri just plain ******* nuts?

I honestly don't know.

 

[jimbob]

Unless somebody has an analysis of the revenues from fines, we're jumping the gun a bit, here. e.g. if you tell the police to stop issuing their bogus tickets and the courts to stop doubling down, just how many offenses does that cover? Even in Ferguson, widely being painted as the most corrupt city on earth (y'all haven't lived in Pattaya, have you?), it's not going to be the whole 2.0 mil. Probably a smidgen of that amount.

>>>> Shooting: Very disturbing. Some ********* better get his/her ass thrown in jail toot sweet and I just hope to hell it's a "lone gunman/disaffected nut" type. Obama and Holder roundly condemned the action. I'm sure we'll hear shortly why their condemnation wasn't sufficient.

@Gawdzilla and any other locals: Any scuttlebutt on the local news? After years of being a foreign-news-searcher, the first articles that come up on my searches are all from international news sites, UK papers, and "Cakes in the News".

I have quoted some of the relevant parts of the report in the other thread.
here and a couple of posts later:

It is possible for there to be more than one problem.

Apart from the riots, I don't know what the crime rate is.

The police force is a problem. That is what the DoJ report said.

Putting it crudely - the police were acting as an extortion racket

'Between July 1, 2010, and June 30, 2014, the City of Ferguson issued approximately 90,000 citations and summonses for municipal violations. Notably, the City issued nearly 50% more citations in the last year of that time period than it did in the first. This increase in enforcement has not been driven by a rise in serious crime. While the ticketing rate has increased dramatically, the number of charges for many of the most serious offenses covered by the municipal code—e.g., Assault, Driving While Intoxicated, and Stealing—has remained relatively constant'​

'In fiscal year 2009, 16,178 new cases were filed, and 8,727 were resolved. In 2014, by contrast, 24,256 new offenses were filed, and 10,975 offenses were resolved.'​

'FERGUSON LAW ENFORCEMENT EFFORTS ARE FOCUSED ON GENERATING REVENUE
City officials have consistently set maximizing revenue as the priority for Ferguson’s law enforcement activity. Ferguson generates a significant and increasing amount of revenue from the enforcement of code provisions. The City has budgeted for, and achieved, significant increases in revenue from municipal code enforcement over the last several years, and these increases are projected to continue. Of the $11.07 million in general fund revenue the City collected in fiscal year 2010, $1.38 million came from fines and fees collected by the court; similarly, in fiscal year 2011, the City’s general fund revenue of $11.44 million included $1.41 million from fines and fees. In its budget for fiscal year 2012, however, the City predicted that revenue from municipal fines and fees would increase over 30% from the previous year’s amount to $1.92 million; the court exceeded that target, collecting $2.11 million. In its budget for fiscal year 2013, the City budgeted for fines and fees to yield $2.11 million; the court exceeded that target as well, collecting $2.46 million. For 2014, the City budgeted for the municipal court to generate $2.63 million in revenue. The City has not yet made public the actual revenue collected that year, although budget documents forecasted lower revenue than was budgeted. Nonetheless, for fiscal year 2015, the City’s budget anticipates fine and fee revenues to account for $3.09 million of a projected $13.26 million in general fund revenues.8'​

'The report stated that the acting prosecutor had reviewed the City’s “high volume offenses” and “started recommending higher fines on these cases, and recommending probation only infrequently.” While the report stated that this recommendation was because of a “large volume of non-compliance,” the recommendation was in fact emphasized as one of several ways that the code enforcement system had been honed to produce more revenue.'​

'In combination with a high fine schedule, the City directs FPD to aggressively enforce the municipal code. City and police leadership pressure officers to write citations, independent of any public safety need, and rely on citation productivity to fund the City budget. In an email from March 2010, the Finance Director wrote to Chief Jackson that “unless ticket writing ramps up significantly before the end of the year, it will be hard to significantly raise collections next year. What are your thoughts? Given that we are looking at a substantial sales tax shortfall, it’s not an insignificant issue.” Chief Jackson responded that the City would see an increase in fines once more officers were hired and that he could target the $1.5 million forecast. Significantly, Chief Jackson stated that he was also “looking at different shift schedules which will place more officers on the street, which in turn will increase traffic enforcement per shift.” Shortly thereafter, FPD switched to the 12-hour shift schedule for its patrol officers, which FPD continues to use. Law enforcement experience has shown that this schedule makes community policing more difficult—a concern that we have also heard directly from FPD officers. Nonetheless, while FPD heavily considered the revenue implications of the 12-hour shift and certain other factors such as its impact on overtime and sick time usage, we have found no evidence that FPD considered the consequences for positive community engagement. The City’s 2014 budget itself stated that since December 2010, “the percent of [FPD] resources allocated to traffic enforcement has increased,” and “[a]s a result, traffic enforcement related collections increased” in the following two years. The 2015 budget added that even after those initial increases, in fiscal year 2012-2013, FPD was once again “successful in increasing their proportion of resources dedicated to traffic enforcement” and increasing collections.'​

'FPD has communicated to officers not only that they must focus on bringing in revenue, but that the department has little concern with how officers do this. FPD’s weak systems of supervision, review, and accountability, discussed below in Part III.A., have sent a potent message to officers that their violations of law and policy will be tolerated, provided that officers 12 continue to be “productive” in making arrests and writing citations. Where officers fail to meet productivity goals, supervisors have been instructed to alter officer assignments or impose discipline. In August 2012, the Captain of the Patrol Division instructed other patrol supervisors that, “[f]or those officers who are not keeping up an acceptable level of productivity and they have already been addressed at least once if not multiple times, take it to the next level.” He continued: “As we have discussed already, regardless of the seniority and experience take the officer out of the cover car position and assign them to prisoner pick up and bank runs. . . . Failure to perform can result in disciplinary action not just a bad evaluation.” Performance evaluations also heavily emphasize productivity. A June 2013 evaluation indicates one of the “Performance-Related Areas of Improvements” as “Increase/consistent in productivity, the ability to maintain an average ticket [sic] of 28 per month.”
Not all officers within FPD agree with this approach. Several officers commented on the futility of imposing mounting penalties on people who will never be able to afford them. One member of FPD’s command staff quoted an old adage, asking: “How can you get blood from a turnip?” Another questioned why FPD did not allow residents to use their limited resources to fix equipment violations, such as broken headlights, rather than paying that money to the City, as fixing the equipment violation would more directly benefit public safety.10'​

'The February 2011 report notes Judge Brockmeyer’s statement that “none of these changes could have taken place without the cooperation of the Court Clerk, the Chief of Police, and the Prosecutor’s Office.” Indeed, the acting prosecutor noted in the report that “I have denied defendants’ needless requests for continuance from the payment docket in an effort to aid in the court’s efficient collection of its fines.”'​

24,000 citations in one year for a population of 21,000 is nothing short of outrageous. Many of the citizens of Ferguson would have been better off under Ankh Morpork's Thieves Guild.

 

[Giordano]

LOL
You've got it wrong on both ends. Not all the local officials are corrupt and not all residents deserve to go broke because of the thugs and rioters.
"Police state", you say that so casually I almost think you don't know what it means.

I don't see where he said that all local officials were corrupt. And not one innocent resident deserves to go broke because of the thugs and rioters, nor do they deserve to pay for a police-based shakedown scheme..

The concept is a simple one: do you need to have the overall workings of the police and government corrupt so as to allow the town to survive financially? Not that all police and government officials are corrupt.

I dare say that most towns don't have this level of corruption, yet get by financially. So yes, you can create financial support honestly (perhaps by the taxation that "conservatives" have argued so strongly against) to support essential services such as the police. Or you are arguing that all towns must already be corrupt in this fashion, which is why they can finance these essential services? I am not yet that cynical.

If the only way to support government and police is to randomly (no, racially) extract money from the poorest citizens by unsupported and illegal police actions, then I would say it must stop no matter the consequences. The police are there to help citizens, not shake them down. Perhaps in the spirit of free enterprise, the citizens should join a protection racket with a mob, and pay the money that they previously paid to the city directly to the criminal gang in exchange for protection. This is exactly what many immigrants to the USA did throughout history: after realizing that the local government was more dangerous and less helpful to them than the criminal gangs, they often joined with the criminal gangs to protect themselves. It could be cheaper.

 

[jimbob]

I don't see where he said that all local officials were corrupt. And not one innocent resident deserves to go broke because of the thugs and rioters, nor do they deserve to pay for a police-based shakedown scheme..

The concept is a simple one: do you need to have the overall workings of the police and government corrupt so as to allow the town to survive financially? Not that all police and government officials are corrupt.

I dare say that most towns don't have this level of corruption, yet get by financially. So yes, you can create financial support honestly (perhaps by the taxation that "conservatives" have argued so strongly against) to support essential services such as the police. Or you are arguing that all towns must already be corrupt in this fashion, which is why they can finance these essential services? I am not yet that cynical.

If the only way to support government and police is to randomly (no, racially) extract money from the poorest citizens by unsupported and illegal police actions, then I would say it must stop no matter the consequences. The police are there to help citizens, not shake them down. Perhaps in the spirit of free enterprise, the citizens should join a protection racket with a mob, and pay the money that they previously paid to the city directly to the criminal gang in exchange for protection. This is exactly what many immigrants to the USA did throughout history: after realizing that the local government was more dangerous and less helpful to them than the criminal gangs, they often joined with the criminal gangs to protect themselves. It could be cheaper.

Indeed.

And it seems a pretty odd idea to suggest that unlawful behaviour by criminals excuses unlawful behaviour by those who are supposed to uphold the law.

 

[Monketi Ghost]

Indeed.

And it seems a pretty odd idea to suggest that unlawful behaviour by criminals excuses unlawful behaviour by those who are supposed to uphold the law.

I don't see any such suggestion.
But the Ferguson community has a problem and despite what some people would love to sell, it ain't too many parking tickets.
Cops aren't getting shot over parking tickets, they're getting shot because the criminal element gets a pass in the community.

 

[jimbob]

I don't see any such suggestion.
But the Ferguson community has a problem and despite what some people would love to sell, it ain't too many parking tickets.
Cops aren't getting shot over parking tickets, they're getting shot because the criminal element gets a pass in the community.

Are you sure of that? 24,000 citations in one year for a population of 21,000 is excessive.

I'd guess that a sizable proportion of the black population has lost more money due to the presence of the municipal police than to crime - quite possibly than they would have lost if the municipal police were not there at all. The county police could deal with crime.

 

[Monketi Ghost]

I know that the community has a violent element. We've seen what started this whole thing.
*drops needle on Michael Jackson's Smooth Criminal*
*abruptly pulls needle*

People aren't rioting/peacefully protesting about parking tickets. That's all smoke after the fact meant to obscure.
While the rate of such ticketing may be high, what community doesn't feel there's too much of it? The local University town has notorious parking ticket problems but folks here only riot based on how the Big Ten teams perform.

I think if the Ferguson community lost its police force so many people would move away it'd be a ghost town overnight. Or maybe not, maybe a lot of people there do feel they'd be safer without police.

 

[jimbob]

I know that the community has a violent element. We've seen what started this whole thing.
*drops needle on Michael Jackson's Smooth Criminal*
*abruptly pulls needle*

People aren't rioting/peacefully protesting about parking tickets. That's all smoke after the fact meant to obscure.
While the rate of such ticketing may be high, what community doesn't feel there's too much of it? The local University town has notorious parking ticket problems but folks here only root based on how the Big Ten teams perform.

Have you read the report?

Arresting someone on the sole grounds that they were resisting arrest?

Violations of First, Fourth, Fifth and Fourteenth Amendments.

Corruption amongst officials and pervasive racism - with email records for senior officers, and lots of consistent witness reports for patrol officers.

Use of force often not documented, and when it was, it hadn't been investigated.


So, yes I do agree that there was a lot of lawbreaking and violence - but unfortunately a lot originated at the FPD against innocent people.

This is an organisation that managed to wrongfully arrest reporters covering the protests.

 

[Monketi Ghost]

Have you read the report?

Arresting someone on the sole grounds that they were resisting arrest?

Violations of First, Fourth, Fifth and Fourteenth Amendments.

Corruption amongst officials and pervasive racism - with email records for senior officers, and lots of consistent witness reports for patrol officers.

Use of force often not documented, and when it was, it hadn't been investigated.


So, yes I do agree that there was a lot of lawbreaking and violence - but unfortunately a lot originated at the FPD against innocent people.

This is an organisation that managed to wrongfully arrest reporters covering the protests.

Yes, and it doesn't paint a lovely picture. But it doesn't strike me as particularly bad either, and I suspect an agenda was partly responsible for how it reads.
I also imagine that a similar report could be written about most any mixed community. I'm sure that locally, the cops could be made to look really bad if such a report were produced.
But I maintain that if the FPD were disbanded and the community left without that resource, they'd regret it quickly. We know there's a violent criminal element there that uses cover of crowds and darkness to do bad things, and even sometimes in broad daylight in front of witnesses and cameras. *lights up a satisfying stolen cigar, walks down center of street*

 

[jimbob]

Oh, the report itself suggests that the problem is wider than just Ferguson. as the vehicle stop disparity index is *indeed* worse in the rest of the State.

And the reports about Homan Square And others about Chicago suggest that isn't exactly a beacon of good practice.

I am looking at it from a British perspective, where there have been fairly recent high profile police corruption and malpractice stories, but nothing on the scale of this.

 

[Monketi Ghost]

I ruminate.
The question for Ferguson is basically deciding which group of alphas they want running the show: those with legal guns and an oath to protect the citizenry, or those with violent intentions, no oath to any save themselves, and illegal/unregistered weapons.

Police work is hard, and one if the basic requirements is the ability to take a punch/defend/outgrapple.
So the job naturally attracts alpha males, and we all know how insecure they can be. Having authority gives them that missing security, and some of them definitely shouldn't make it through the academy screening process. Some of them are just a couple of bad decisions from being thugs themselves, we see the bad ex cop often enough.

Still, if forced to choose, in my small capitol city where the industry is long gone, between obnoxious cops or street criminals, I'll choose the cops every time. I'll never embrace anarchy.

 

[Upchurch]

Yes, and it doesn't paint a lovely picture. But it doesn't strike me as particularly bad either,

Systemic racism and oppression doesn't strike you as particularly bad? Between your acceptance of this and advocating torture, what on Earth would strike you as particularly bad?

But I maintain that if the FPD were disbanded and the community left without that resource, they'd regret it quickly.

If the FPD were to be dissolved, those duties would fall back on the St. Louis County Police Department. I don't know for sure how they fair compared to the FPD, but I'm guessing it wouldn't be worse.

The post-apocalyptic anarchy you are envisioning not only isn't on the table, it's not even in the room.