DOJ: Ferguson PD descrimination against blacks is routine

Let's get a betting pool going as to how long until the Mayor of Ferguson, who strikes me as particularly clueless, makes his departure.....
 
Upchurch said:
It doesn't, but this sort of top-down re-org is certainly a necessary start.
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I agree..but in the end, "so and so" got replaced. The town still needs revenue, the police force is the same, minus Darren Wilson. Real change needs to happen, and I don't see it just yet.
 
Mumbles said:
The town still needs revenue, the police force is the same, minus Darren Wilson. Real change needs to happen, and I don't see it just yet.
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I said it was a start. Yes, more people, including officers, need to go. Yes, new policies need to be put into place and they need to be backed up by the top down.

I have no idea who should be responsible for that. I certainly don't think it is the current Ferguson government. I'm inclined to agree with those who have suggested that Ferguson will un-incorporate before this is over and the pieces annexed into neighboring townships. I can't say if that will be better or worse for the people of Ferguson.
 
...and the Chief is out.

Ferguson Police Chief Resigns

Jackson initially told the city his resignation would be effective March 19. City officials then contacted him Wednesday afternoon and said it should take effect immediately. After discussion about the need for a transition team, both sides settled on March 19 as his official departure date.

Ferguson Township Committeewoman Patricia Bynes, who has been active in protests following the shooting death of Michael Brown on Aug. 9, said she is pleased to learn of Jackson's departure, but she is, "not ready to pop the champagne yet."

"Much of the stuff in that report happened under his watch, and all of the lawsuits prior to Aug. 9 happened under his watch," she said. "If the men and women of your department are not going to follow your leadership you don't need to be chief of police."

She continued, "We don't need new faces to the same culture, so I'm not ready to jump up and down yet to celebrate his resignation. I want to know how are they vetting the people they are going to be looking at to come behind them and are they making structural changes to ensure this abuse of authority doesn't run rampant anymore. Something structurally needs to change...We don’t need another, 'Good ol' boys,' network and I need to know that before I pop the champagne and get ready for a toast."
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Mumbles said:
I agree..but in the end, "so and so" got replaced. The town still needs revenue, the police force is the same, minus Darren Wilson. Real change needs to happen, and I don't see it just yet.
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I was at least half-serious with my comment about just not having a police department.

What benefit does it provide to the inhabitants compared to St Louis County PD? If my reading of wiki is correct (which might not be the case) it already has jurisdiction in Ferguson.

Filing 24,256 new offences in 2014 is really going some for a population of 65,000 and 54 officers. However, $2.63-Million revenue is less than its $5-million budget.
 
The problem Ferguson will face is revenue. The quote from the city manager posted here -- telling the police chief if the number of tickets don't increase sharply and quickly the city faces a fiscal crisis - illustrates this. The main source of revenue for towns like Ferguson -- absent the police efforts to raise revenue -- is property taxes. That's where they have a problem.

Looking at Ferguson's profile on the city data website, the city is probably on the low-middle end of the economic range. Median household income in 2012 was $36,121 compared to a county-wide median household income of $71,442. The average sale price for homes in Ferguson was about $60,000 in 2014. (The events of last summer don't help.) The median sale price of a home in St. Louis County is $179,300.

The property tax rate in Ferguson for a house with a mortgage is listed as 1.4% in 2012. This is bit higher than St. Louis County as a whole which is listed at 1.25%. The trouble is, because the average property in the county has a much higher assessment it produces $2,238 in property tax per year. In Ferguson the average home tax bill is less than $1,400.

That's a huge disparity. Coupled with a population who earn roughly half the regional income the problem becomes: How much can we increase property tax without driving people (and businesses) away?

I don't envy them.
 
Upchurch said:
I said it was a start. Yes, more people, including officers, need to go. Yes, new policies need to be put into place and they need to be backed up by the top down.

I have no idea who should be responsible for that. I certainly don't think it is the current Ferguson government. I'm inclined to agree with those who have suggested that Ferguson will un-incorporate before this is over and the pieces annexed into neighboring townships. I can't say if that will be better or worse for the people of Ferguson.
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Indeed, and the report mentions that neighbouring municipalities have similar court systems and Hazelwood in particular looks pretty bent - given the mutual favours in "fixing" traffic violations between Ferguson and Hazlewood court/police staff.

And this observation:

53 Data for the entire state of Missouri shows an even higher “Disparity Index” for those years than the disparity index present in Ferguson. This raises, by the state’s own metric, considerable concerns about policing outside of Ferguson as well.
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If only there was some way that the people of Ferguson could help shape the future of the city.
City council is elected. The Mayor is elected. The Chief of Police, City Manager, municipal judges, and committees are appointed by the council
If only the people had a say. Even just once a year...
 
Giordano said:
I've always found the "either or" argument odd. Why must it be either the police, or the crooks, must be allowed to hurt innocent people? Is there no other choice?
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It's not really a matter of "allowed" as it is a matter of "expected", in my opinion. You expect criminals to hurt innocent people. Generally speaking, it's what makes them criminals. You don't expect police to hurt innocent people.

I suppose one could argue, given some incidents in recent history, that the police in general actually have a greater allowance in harming innocent people than criminals do. And that's kind of screwed up.

Monketey Ghost said:
I'll bet the crime rate in Ferguson will just plummet now that they've got all the real perps in line, LOL
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Monketey Ghost said:
Both of you missed "violent crime".
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Well, if the Ferguson courts can no longer charge for ******** crimes, it stands to reason that the recorded crime rate in Ferguson will indeed fall, even if the violent crime rate remains the same (or even increases).
 
newyorkguy said:
The problem Ferguson will face is revenue. The quote from the city manager posted here -- telling the police chief if the number of tickets don't increase sharply and quickly the city faces a fiscal crisis - illustrates this. The main source of revenue for towns like Ferguson -- absent the police efforts to raise revenue -- is property taxes. That's where they have a problem.

Looking at Ferguson's profile on the city data website, the city is probably on the low-middle end of the economic range. Median household income in 2012 was $36,121 compared to a county-wide median household income of $71,442. The average sale price for homes in Ferguson was about $60,000 in 2014. (The events of last summer don't help.) The median sale price of a home in St. Louis County is $179,300.

The property tax rate in Ferguson for a house with a mortgage is listed as 1.4% in 2012. This is bit higher than St. Louis County as a whole which is listed at 1.25%. The trouble is, because the average property in the county has a much higher assessment it produces $2,238 in property tax per year. In Ferguson the average home tax bill is less than $1,400.

That's a huge disparity. Coupled with a population who earn roughly half the regional income the problem becomes: How much can we increase property tax without driving people (and businesses) away?

I don't envy them.
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Ferguson court revenues from fines is about $2 million. With a population of 21,000, they need about $100/person to recover that revenue. I don't think it would be that hard to find that money without subverting the police department into taxing the poor with bogus citations...
 
Newtons Bit said:
Ferguson court revenues from fines is about $2 million. With a population of 21,000, they need about $100/person to recover that revenue. I don't think it would be that hard to find that money without subverting the police department into taxing the poor with bogus citations...
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I'm not suggesting they continue to use the police as a cash cow. But based on experiences in other places it may be hard for them to make up the revenue shortfall. First, the only real source of revenue for a city like Ferguson is property taxes. How many people are liable for property taxes in Ferguson? I don't know but it's vastly less than 21,000. In Ferguson probably better than half the population is under 18. Of the 10,000 adults it might be half -- and that's probably high -- who own taxable property. Plus businesses of which there doesn't seem to be a lot.

I saw this happen first hand in New York and New Jersey. After all the shouting dies down and the crowds all go home those who are left have to pick up the pieces. It's usually pretty tough to do.
 
Wolrab said:
If only there was some way that the people of Ferguson could help shape the future of the city.
City council is elected. The Mayor is elected. The Chief of Police, City Manager, municipal judges, and committees are appointed by the council
If only the people had a say. Even just once a year...
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Elections take time and money. Maybe in the absence of a systemically oppressive system, 67% of the community will have an opportunity to do just that.
 
newyorkguy said:
I'm not suggesting they continue to use the police as a cash cow.
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I know ;)

But based on experiences in other places it may be hard for them to make up the revenue shortfall. First, the only real source of revenue for a city like Ferguson is property taxes. How many people are liable for property taxes in Ferguson? I don't know but it's vastly less than 21,000. In Ferguson probably better than half the population is under 18. Of the 10,000 adults it might be half -- and that's probably high -- who own taxable property. Plus businesses of which there doesn't seem to be a lot.

I saw this happen first hand in New York and New Jersey. After all the shouting dies down and the crowds all go home those who are left have to pick up the pieces. It's usually pretty tough to do.
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Sales taxes may help as well. People driving through are going to stop for gas on occasion... They may just have to scale back some of their absurd riot gear as well...
 
newyorkguy said:
I saw this happen first hand in New York and New Jersey. After all the shouting dies down and the crowds all go home those who are left have to pick up the pieces. It's usually pretty tough to do.
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But isn't it pretty tough on the people being milked of their money to pay for operations of the city? Seems kind of an odd worry to me.
 
Two Officers Are Shot Outside Ferguson Police Station
Two St. Louis County police officers were shot early Thursday outside the Ferguson police station, the county police said. The officers’ conditions were not known.
The shootings followed protests by several dozen demonstrators, which included occasional clashes with the police and a few arrests. But the situation had been relatively calm for about half an hour when several shots rang out from a distance, and protesters and police officers alike went to the ground.
After the gunfire stopped, several officers appeared to be dragging a colleague back toward the police station.
The incident came less than a day after Ferguson’s police chief, Thomas Jackson, agreed to resign as part of a shake-up of the city administration following a scathing Justice Department report on constitutional abuses in the local law enforcement system.
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