Continuation Part 13: Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito

[christianahannah]

Bill managed to figure it out

You mean that the images were in open court? If they were to be revealed at all that is the place I would expect them to be shown.

As far as the other documents, what I understand from Machiavelli's post many, many pages ago, it was Maresca who has released the current documents so they could be in the public realm (on The Merdith Wiki).

 

[Chris_Halkides]

falsehoods about YSTR DNA at a pseudo-wiki

From the pseudo-wiki at themurderofmeredithkercher.com "The bra clasp DNA was also a match for Sollecito's y-chromosome.[5] This confirms that the DNA belongs to a male Sollecito likely not more than two or three degrees of separation from Raffaele." One, YSTR profiles don't actually match anyone; they are not that discriminating. Not only will one's male relatives match, so will an unknown number of unrelated males. Two, the mutation rates at these loci are all well below 1% as we have documented and discussed before; therefore, the statement about the number of degrees of separation is also false.

This pseudo-wiki is a purveyor of misinformation about the case. The editors have been told repeatedly about some of its falsehoods, yet nothing changes. My advice is to use it at your own risk.

 

[christianahannah]

From the pseudo-wiki at themurderofmeredithkercher.com "The bra clasp DNA was also a match for Sollecito's y-chromosome.[5] This confirms that the DNA belongs to a male Sollecito likely not more than two or three degrees of separation from Raffaele." One, YSTR profiles don't actually match anyone; they are not that discriminating. Not only will one's male relatives match, so will an unknown number of unrelated males. Two, the mutation rates at these loci are all well below 1% as we have documented and discussed before; therefore, the statement about the number of degrees of separation is also false.

This pseudo-wiki is a purveyor of misinformation about the case. The editors have been told repeatedly about some of its falsehoods, yet nothing changes. My advice is to use it at your own risk.

But The Meredith Wiki is from where many of the new documents have come. It is these documents which many who believe in innocence, along with those who believe in guilt, are linking. Even you did a Google Translation of Novelli's report (which, in that case, I would definitely be careful of relying on Google Translate for 100% accuracy).

 

[Chris_Halkides]

same in all languages

But The Meredith Wiki is from where many of the new documents have come. It is these documents which many who believe in innocence, along with those who believe in guilt, are linking. Even you did a Google Translation of Novelli's report (which, in that case, I would definitely be careful of relying on Google Translate for 100% accuracy).

christianahannah,

Dr. Novelli's report also include a table of alleles, which does not require translation. With respect to the sentences I quoted above, another error is that of omission. Even Dr. Novelli acknowedged the additional DNA in the YSTR profile; I see no reason why the website in question cannot do likewise.

 

[Dougm]

But The Meredith Wiki is from where many of the new documents have come. It is these documents which many who believe in innocence, along with those who believe in guilt, are linking. Even you did a Google Translation of Novelli's report (which, in that case, I would definitely be careful of relying on Google Translate for 100% accuracy).

The problem with that wiki (the one you are calling the "Meredith wiki") is not so much the court documents, the ones that you mention were not available for years, but now are. It is the summaries that tell people what is in those documents, which are often false or misleading.

Reading the actual court testimony is fine. It's when it gets filtered through a lens of someone who has already made up their mind, and tells people that the facts are different than they are to match that theory, that is where the problem is.

And yes, there is a pro-innocence wiki that is also written by people who have an opinion about the case. I recommend actually reading the real documents, and see who's version matches the facts.

BTW, in case anyone didn't know, there are two wikis, one pro-guilt, one pro-innocence. Both have court documents.

Pro-innocence wiki: www.amandaknoxcase.com

Pro-guilt wiki: www.themurderofmeredithkercher.com

 

[christianahannah]

The problem with that wiki (the one you are calling the "Meredith wiki") is not so much the court documents, the ones that you mention were not available for years, but now are. It is the summaries that tell people what is in those documents, which are often false or misleading.

Reading the actual court testimony is fine. It's when it gets filtered through a lens of someone who has already made up their mind, and tells people that the facts are different than they are to match that theory, that is where the problem is.

And yes, there is a pro-innocence wiki that is also written by people who have an opinion about the case. I recommend actually reading the real documents, and see who's version matches the facts.

BTW, in case anyone didn't know, there are two wikis, one pro-guilt, one pro-innocence. Both have court documents.

Pro-innocence wiki: www.amandaknoxcase.com

Pro-guilt wiki: www.themurderofmeredithkercher.com

Well, that's why I read the documents without the filtering.

And I refer to The Meredith Wiki to differentiate it from Meredith Wiki. I think at one time there were two named the same with the exception of "The." I guess the non-The is now the amandaknoxcase.com?

 

[RWVBWL]

<snip>

As to the images you reference, I would read the autopsy report (if available) to gain a better understanding of the injuries and condition of Meredith but I do not need the accompanying photos nor do I think they serve a purpose on this or other forums.

Greetings everyone.

Well,
I will have to disagree.
For years I have read of the defensive wounds on Miss Kercher.

Reading on old Perugia Shock a moment ago as I looked for something else,
this particular Wayback Machine screen grab from 2009 saved an image that I do not recall seeing before.

It is from a post by Frank Sfarzo,
who attended most of the original Massei Trial, which you nor I did not.

This photo, seen below,
seen in old Perugia Shock here:
http://web.archive.org/web/20100806235828/http://perugia-shock.blogspot.com/2009_07_01_archive.html
is a comparison of a normal defensive knife wound to a hand
compared to the wound on Miss Kercher's hand. I believe that it was on her palm, and 1 of her thumbs, right?.

It does not appear that Miss Kercher used either of her hands much to defend herself against a knife.
So I have to wonder why?

And add this image to the others shown in this link here,
which show bruises on Miss Kercher's elbows:
http://web.archive.org/web/20110504...logspot.com/2008/10/pointing-at-murderer.html


Now when I look at the photo of Miss Kercher's upraised hand, seen in the link above,
I ask myself, why aren't the blood drops smeared on her upraised hand if her blue jacket was removed after she was stabbed?

Somehow she had her hand free after her jacket was removed and she got blood drops on it, which are not smeared, as I would expect from her long sleve being pulled off her arm and hand. Right?

The photo's tell a story sometimes different from what a person reads...
My opinion only.
RW

 

[christianahannah]

christianahannah,

Dr. Novelli's report also include a table of alleles, which does not require translation. With respect to the sentences I quoted above, another error is that of omission. Even Dr. Novelli acknowedged the additional DNA in the YSTR profile; I see no reason why the website in question cannot do likewise.

You have read Novelli's report? What is your opinion concerning his comments to The Conti-Vecchiotti Report?

 

[MichaelB]

Thanks to those who are responsible for The Meredith Wiki these documents have come to public view. I don't know if these were available by those who were favorable to the defense, however, it doesn't matter. They are available now. Yay.

That's not quite true. It's not like the people who edit Gods wiki raised money and bought all the trial transcripts or someone went to Perugia to the courthouse and got them (if that's even possible). They were given them by Maresca (according to Mach) and have simply uploaded them onto a website which anyone can do.

So it's not thanks to Gods wiki but thanks to whoever supplied them in the first place. Nearly all of their transcripts before this latest document dump were supplied by Amanda and they downloaded them all from her website and the rest from IIP.

 

[Dougm]

Well, that's why I read the documents without the filtering.

And I refer to The Meredith Wiki to differentiate it from Meredith Wiki. I think at one time there were two named the same with the exception of "The." I guess the non-The is now the amandaknoxcase.com?

Yes. That one is also accessible at murderofmeredithkercher.com, but I personally agree with you that was confusing.

Good for you to read the actual stuff and avoid the spin. That would work for both sides, although I have found it makes sense, potentially, to read some of the spin from each side, and see what matches the actual info.

Personally, I originally thought they must be guilty. I just couldn't find any believable evidence of it. And I still can't. If anyone ever does, I'd be happy to look at it.

 

[RoseMontague]

Thanks to those who are responsible for The Meredith Wiki these documents have come to public view. I don't know if these were available by those who were favorable to the defense, however, it doesn't matter. They are available now. Yay.

I agree. It's a good thing these documents are now available, regardless of where they come from.

 

[Diocletus]

You have read Novelli's report? What is your opinion concerning his comments to The Conti-Vecchiotti Report?

That he'll say anything for a buck.

 

[christianahannah]

That's not quite true. It's not like the people who edit Gods wiki raised money and bought all the trial transcripts or someone went to Perugia to the courthouse and got them (if that's even possible). They were given them by Maresca (according to Mach) and have simply uploaded them onto a website which anyone can do.

So it's not thanks to Gods wiki but thanks to whoever supplied them in the first place. Nearly all of their transcripts before this latest document dump were supplied by Amanda and they downloaded them all from her website and the rest from IIP.

No disagreement here (I wasn't sure at first what was meant by Gods wiki but I assume it is The Meredith Wiki). I think I wrote the same as you generally except in two or three posts beforehand.

The fact is the new documentation was available on The Meredith Wiki. As for the other transcripts on their site I can't say from where they came - I read the many transcripts and reports available on Amanda's blog as they were added and updated (with the exception of a few reports, conversations, etc. which were found elsewhere).

Both groups borrow from each other that is no secret (and I don't mean that in a snide way - if the documents aren't meant to be shared they shouldn't be on a public forum).

 

[christianahannah]

That he'll say anything for a buck.

Okay, this made me smile. But I don't think it is true.

 

[christianahannah]

I agree. It's a good thing these documents are now available, regardless of where they come from.

You were always pleading for more documentation. And now look how much there is.

Nice to see you again. Hope things have gone well for you.

 

[RoseMontague]

Congrats on that awesome achievement and I'm especially tickled to see you posting on the case again.

Have you read Nencini's Report yet? If you have, what did you think?

I have read Luca's anslysis. Considering the instructions he was given by the Supreme Court it's not surprising he comes off sounding like a clown. My opinion is he doesn't really care.

 

[Bill Williams]

Congrats on that awesome achievement and I'm especially tickled to see you posting on the case again.

Have you read Nencini's Report yet? If you have, what did you think?

I have read Luca's anslysis. Considering the instructions he was given by the Supreme Court it's not surprising he comes off sounding like a clown. My opinion is he doesn't really care.

I don't want to disagree with you immediately upon your return.....

My opinion is that he's trying to sound intelligent, as if he's solved the crime. I don't know if he'd been a PM before becoming a judge, but he's using the same technique - simply inventing things which he believes might be consistent with the evidence. In an "osmotic whole".

He does the world a favour by listing the reasons why he denies the defence's requests for reevaluation of evidence, by at least putting his reasonings in print for all to read.

He thinks he is a DNA expert by at first saying that there's no real need to doubt much of Conti & Vecchiotti's report, yet he then launches into almost incomprehensible reasons why Stefanoni is to be preferred. (I'll give him his due - unlike Massei before him, never once does he say something akin to, "Setefanoni is to be believed on her own say-so, despite the evidence.")

His completely evidenceless musings about the three extra Y-profiles on the clasp, after accounting for Meredith and one where Raffaele cannot be ruled out, is the height of either arrogance or stupidity. It is all to address the issues of contamination, and to do it he simply surmises the innocent reasons why the three extra ones might be there without a shred of proof.

I get the feeling that like much of the shenanigans in the courtroom, he believes that stern and flowery rhetoric will crack this case. (Have you read some of the trial transcripts where the lawyers break out into an argument?)

 

[Desert Fox]

As always, you seem to be operating under the bizarrely illogical assumption that, if you can only manage to pierce holes in the US police and justice systems' admittedly flawed armor, you absolve Mignini and his whole sick crew of their wrongdoing. No person with just a modicum of intellectual training would follow you on such a flight of stupidity.

He was commenting to me. . . . . .
There is usually an illusion of following the law by police, prosecutors, and judges where the people looking from the outside normally cannot see the problems. The Italian legal system though seems like they are not even following the illusion yet it seems to be perfectly normal.

 

[AmyStrange]

-

He was commenting to me. . . . . .
There is usually an illusion of following the law by police, prosecutors, and judges where the people looking from the outside normally cannot see the problems. The Italian legal system though seems like they are not even following the illusion yet it seems to be perfectly normal.

-

What I get out of what some of the probably guilty crowd are pointing out about the flaws in the US system, is that they are agreeing that the Italian System is flawed also, specifically the way this case was handled from the beginning.

Why else would they point out the bad we do here in the US, except to say, see you people do the same thing, so shut up.

I'm willing to be convinced otherwise, but that's the way I see it, right now anyway,

d

-

 

[Desert Fox]

What I get out of what some of the probably guilty crowd are pointing out about the flaws in the US system, is that they are agreeing that the Italian System is flawed also, specifically the way this case was handled from the beginning.

Why else would they point out the bad we do here in the US, except to say, see you people do the same thing, so shut up.

I'm willing to be convinced otherwise, but that's the way I see it, right now anyway,

One thing I am not saying is the US has problems and am just as mad about Russ Faria as I am about Amanda Knox. With those who pick on problems with the US legal system, I wish we could shake hands and say "Let us work on both problems."