Continuation Part 13: Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito

[Bill Williams]

No. From the moment you registered an account here, you've been firing salvos at the US - sometimes, hilariously, at Canadians and New Zealanders - as if this lessens the Italians' lunacy or culpability. It's sophomoric stuff most of us outgrew in high school, and it's called tu quoque.

I can think of a few Canadian situations where if Vibio launched a salvo at them, I'd agree with her.

The problem is when the salvo is meant to divert from the Perugian lunacy.

 

[Diocletus]

Funny though how only Rudy's DNA was found on it. I wonder if its yet another case of profile suppression of DNA data, to conceal the ticket owner's DNA because it presents an unwelcome element of narrative that doesn't fit Mignini's nice clean frame job.

I'm intrigued. I wonder if there's any testimony about it?

I think it's Rudy's blood. His hand was cut when he stabbed Meredith in the neck.

 

[Kaosium]

Thanks Rolfe, 2 more books written and now wading back in on the case.

Congrats on that awesome achievement and I'm especially tickled to see you posting on the case again.

Have you read Nencini's Report yet? If you have, what did you think?

 

[acbytesla]

I agree with this.

I am waiting for some real news about Amanda. I guess that won't come until March 25. Or is there something I've missed in the last 6 months?

 

[Dougm]

I am waiting for some real news about Amanda. I guess that won't come until March 25. Or is there something I've missed in the last 6 months?

She's engaged. Other than that, not much that passes as news. Just the endless speculation of we online pundits.

 

[acbytesla]

She's engaged. Other than that, not much that passes as news. Just the endless speculation of we online pundits.

Thanks Doug. I heard about her engagement and I'm happy for her for that. I got tired of the guessing. It's quite interesting that here we are almost 8 years after the murder, almost 4 years after her and Raffaele's release that people are still advocating that these 2 innocents go back to prison.

What's the latest on the real killer Rudy. Has he been paroled yet?

 

[Numbers]

I think your quote actually addresses a very specific situation in the UK, where someone who's been definitively acquitted of a crime can be retried years later if new evidence emerges. It's not meant to address the more common situation in civil law countries where the prosecution is allowed to appeal (in the sense that this isn't the context of the concern raised).

I don't think extradition will happen but I think it will be a political decision, not a legal one. That's if Italy even makes the request in the first place (again, a political decision). If the case were lower profile I think it would just be a run-of-the-mill extradition though, given evidence doesn't usually play much part in extradition, especially where the person has already been convicted.

I believe if one reads the paragraph carefully, one will conclude that the "understanding" pertains to European civil law countries, and the Senate committee is extending it to the new UK situation.

I am not a proponent of calling any of the steps in the extradition process "political"; the process normally includes review by the Secretary of State and the Department of Justice. US law specifies that the Secretary has the sole discretion NOT to extradite; the decision he or she makes may be called legal. One may think of the Secretary's role as that of a prosecutor with discretion to not prosecute if the case does not hold up to scrutiny.

Persons sought for extraditions are usually sought for having been reasonably suspected of having committed a crime, and rarely for having been convicted of committing a crime. Amanda Knox is in the unusual position of having been acquitted of committing a crime, based on a reasonable evaluation of evidence, and now being provisionally convicted based upon an arbitrary evaluation of evidence.

 

[christianahannah]

Thanks, lots of reading to do.

Thanks to those who are responsible for The Meredith Wiki these documents have come to public view. I don't know if these were available by those who were favorable to the defense, however, it doesn't matter. They are available now. Yay.

 

[platonov]

What interview

Thanks, lots of reading to do.

If you get bored there’s a video you might enjoy find interesting.

I am waiting for some real news about Amanda. I guess that won't come until March 25. Or is there something I've missed in the last 6 months?

She's engaged. Other than that, not much that passes as news. Just the endless speculation of we online pundits.

Not in Cartwheel world.
In the real world there was a recent Italian TV interview with RS.
For some reason it’s gained very little traction here

 

[platonov]

You guys are never happy.

Thanks to those who are responsible for The Meredith Wiki these documents have come to public view. I don't know if these were available by those who were favorable to the defense, however, it doesn't matter. They are available now. Yay.

Now, now. Amanda’s biggest fans had images of the naked body of the woman she murdered to study. Who needs case documents!

 

[Numbers]

....

I don't think extradition will happen but I think it will be a political decision, not a legal one. That's if Italy even makes the request in the first place (again, a political decision). If the case were lower profile I think it would just be a run-of-the-mill extradition though, given evidence doesn't usually play much part in extradition, especially where the person has already been convicted.

....

....

Persons sought for extraditions are usually sought for having been reasonably suspected of having committed a crime, and rarely for having been convicted of committing a crime. Amanda Knox is in the unusual position of having been acquitted of committing a crime, based on a reasonable evaluation of evidence, and now being provisionally convicted based upon an arbitrary evaluation of evidence.

In US extraditions which reach the stage of review in the judicial system, the probable cause (European "reasonable suspicion") is reviewed. While in the case of a conviction, ordinarily the conviction may be considered probable cause, a sought person may argue that the conviction is wrongful. This would entail showing that all significant elements of the convicting evidence were not indicative of guilt. In Amanda Knox's case, it would appear that the Hellmann court acquittal motivation report and the report of Conti and Vecchiotti, the court-appointed DNA experts, defeat each significant element of the evidence. The DNA practices in this case, from the collection of specimens to the profiling and identification of individuals, was far from US and international standards. Thus, if the Secretary of State and the legal staff of State and Justice agree that the acquittal is a solid defense ot extradition, they would not likely initiate an extradition process that would not provide a certificate of extraditability. The multitude of violations of Italian law, Constitution, and ECHR case-law would be yet another reason for the Secretary not to proceed; those violations are legal issues that a US appeals court could choose to review.

 

[christianahannah]

Now, now. Amanda’s biggest fans had images of the naked body of the woman she murdered to study. Who needs case documents!

Maybe you and others feel that way (about the case documents - who needs them), however, it has always been my urgency to want to read these documents and to know what procedures were done, etc. And I can say there was a lot more to this than the little that was known before.

As to the images you reference, I would read the autopsy report (if available) to gain a better understanding of the injuries and condition of Meredith but I do not need the accompanying photos nor do I think they serve a purpose on this or other forums.

 

[anglolawyer]

Congrats on that awesome achievement and I'm especially tickled to see you posting on the case again.

Have you read Nencini's Report yet? If you have, what did you think?

+1

Great to see you back, Rose.

 

[anglolawyer]

Thanks Doug. I heard about her engagement and I'm happy for her for that. I got tired of the guessing. It's quite interesting that here we are almost 8 years after the murder, almost 4 years after her and Raffaele's release that people are still advocating that these 2 innocents go back to prison.

What's the latest on the real killer Rudy. Has he been paroled yet?

And hello again acbytesla! Good day here

 

[Dougm]

Maybe you and others feel that way (about the case documents - who needs them), however, it has always been my urgency to want to read these documents and to know what procedures were done, etc. And I can say there was a lot more to this than the little that was known before.

As to the images you reference, I would read the autopsy report (if available) to gain a better understanding of the injuries and condition of Meredith but I do not need the accompanying photos nor do I think they serve a purpose on this or other forums.

I think your point is well taken, and well said.

The real history of the disclosure of info in this case is this: Both pro-guilt and pro-innocent people have, as far as I know, made any and all materials in their possession public, just as soon as they had them, and had permission to post them. Any insinuation (not referencing you) that information was somehow withheld is speculation not backed up by any facts.

And, as you mentioned, I too can see why people, if they had access to them, would be interested in reports and/or pictures of the condition of the body in a murder case where they are trying to learn what happened. I further think that those reports and/or images would be a strange thing to publish publicly, and find criticism that was not done to be a bit illogical.

 

[Dougm]

+1

Great to see you back, Rose.

Yes, Welcome, Rose! Since I have been away for some time myself, and come and go, when I see people come back to the discussion, it doesn't strike me as out of the ordinary. After X years, we all have to take a break for other things from time to time!

 

[Bill Williams]

Now, now. Amanda’s biggest fans had images of the naked body of the woman she murdered to study. Who needs case documents!

Have you ever criticized Maresca for showing this in open court?

 

[platonov]

Answers usually reveal something.

Maybe you and others feel that way (about the case documents - who needs them), however, it has always been my urgency to want to read these documents and to know what procedures were done, etc. And I can say there was a lot more to this than the little that was known before.

As to the images you reference, I would read the autopsy report (if available) to gain a better understanding of the injuries and condition of Meredith but I do not need the accompanying photos nor do I think they serve a purpose on this or other forums.

Bill managed to figure it out

 

[platonov]

Answers usually reveal something (2)

I think your point is well taken, and well said.

The real history of the disclosure of info in this case is this: Both pro-guilt and pro-innocent people have, as far as I know, made any and all materials in their possession public, just as soon as they had them, and had permission to post them. Any insinuation (not referencing you) that information was somehow withheld is speculation not backed up by any facts.

And, as you mentioned, I too can see why people, if they had access to them, would be interested in reports and/or pictures of the condition of the body in a murder case where they are trying to learn what happened. I further think that those reports and/or images would be a strange thing to publish publicly, and find criticism that was not done to be a bit illogical.

Who withheld permission for what now?

 

[Dougm]

Who withheld permission for what now?

What comes to mind to write in response to this is impolite. So it will have to stay in my mind.

I never said anyone withheld permission.

I guess you can't discuss the true facts, but instead have to change them to make your point? Fits in well with this case -- that is exactly what Massei and Nencini did.