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Merged Ukraine erupts in riots and general strike.

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Having to link and quote 100% pure propaganda site is not sign of having truth on your side. Neutral reports are MIA so far on Russians side...

If you were to read comprehensibly from RT and a bunch of the other pro-Assad propaganda operations, I think you'll see the CE version of things is pretty much a basic rewording of whatever those "sources" choose to pass down to the faithful.
 
I'm very happy right now watching the most important German political talk show, where everybody: Martin Schulz, Ursula von der Leyen, Gabriele Krone-Schmalz, Harald Kujat and even John Kornblum to an extent are talking sense. I was hopeful when the "Skull & Bones" psycho Kerry babbled about no split inside "the West" several times (you have to accept that assuming that the opposite of what he spouts is true is the smart thing to do), and smelled a rat when Merkel and Hollande flew to Moscow.

Now we're talking, and I envision boarding a highspeed train in Duisburg carrying me to the western pacific coast in "no time". **** the USA (in its current state as figurehead of the Empire, not the people who have to solve this global problem. Pay attention!!!!)! :)
 
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The talks between France/Germany and Putin resume tomorrow via phone.
There is so much we do not know; for instance that at the same time Merkle and the French President are talking with Putin the US State Deparment is really sounding tough, for the first time talking about selling or giving the Ukraining army advanced US Anti Tank weapons. Is this a split between the Allies or just a "Good Cop/Bad Cop" routine?
It's going to get interesting if Merkle is seen as trying to force a peace deal down the Ukraine's throat. The comments abou tanother Munich will abound.

It's probably a waste of time.
There were something like 50 cease-fires in the Yugoslav war, and the one that stuck was after a major offensive by the Croat army that broke the back of Serbia-backed rebels.

I really don't see how Donbass could be any different.

McHrozni
 
Another cease-fire announced by the 4 nations negotiating. Lines are the same as the last one, but heavy gun pull-back is increase significantly to take current hot zones out of big gun range. I suspect that holding the increased sanctions over Russia's head for an additional week probably helped out Ukraine's position, but the rebels still did well. Ukraine won't control its own international border until a whole lot of stuff happens, including local elections in the rebel zones. And no mention of the Crimea.

It's an interesting exercise in framing. Take the Crimea, then fight a low-level war for a couple of years, and people focus on solving that issue instead of your land grab.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/ukraine-peace-talks-yield-cease-fire-deal-1423731958?mod=europe_home
 
The BBC is carrying a story that the shooting in Maidan square might have been started by the protesters.

Almost as if the BBC is a reputable news organisation covering a complex story, and not simply a propaganda mouthpiece.
 
The BBC is carrying a story that the shooting in Maidan square might have been started by the protesters.

Almost as if the BBC is a reputable news organisation covering a complex story, and not simply a propaganda mouthpiece.


They should have mentioned that it's the same Parubiy who they allow to blame Russia and paint in such a nice light who is the prime suspect of the "conspiracy theories" from the other side. Almost as if the whole story is a whitewash. ;)

Fun detail:

BBC said:
Ukraine's Prosecutor General, Vitaly Yarema, was dismissed this week, amid harsh criticism of his handling of the investigation.


The new man:

ua-katarsis said:
Everyone remembers how the former President Yanukovych appointed Pshonka, to whose children he was the godfather, as the Prosecutor General. The new President Poroshenko decided not to deviate from the tradition and likewise appointed someone to whose children he is the godfather.

“The Verkhovna Rada voted to appoint Viktor Shokin the new Prosecutor General of Ukraine. Shokin was supported by 318 deputies, and needed 226 to be confirmed. Prior to that the Rada had voted to dismiss Vitaliy Yarema from that post. Shokin’s candidacy was presented by Poroshenko, who said he knows Shokin for over 15 years and knows him as a professional with good reputation.”

Shokin for his part opted not to ignore the ancient Ukrainian tradition of nepotism. “The Deputy Prosecutor for the Odessa region became Tatyana Gornostayeva, the daughter of the newly appointed Prosecutor General Viktor Shokin.”

Shokin’s other relatives are likewise employed by the Prosecutor’s General office. “They include Shokin’s son-in-law and father-in-law, who likewise were appointed to senior leadership posts at that institution. The husband of Shokin’s daughter, Aleksey Gornostayev, became the Deputy Prosecutor General for the Kiev region of Odessa. The father of Aleksey Gornostayev now works as the Deputy Prosecutor General of the Dnepropetrovsk Region. Prior to that he occupied various posts, and he has headed the Prosecutor’s General office in Dnepropetrovsk. [...]
 
Another cease-fire announced by the 4 nations negotiating. Lines are the same as the last one, but heavy gun pull-back is increase significantly to take current hot zones out of big gun range. I suspect that holding the increased sanctions over Russia's head for an additional week probably helped out Ukraine's position, but the rebels still did well. Ukraine won't control its own international border until a whole lot of stuff happens, including local elections in the rebel zones. And no mention of the Crimea.

It's an interesting exercise in framing. Take the Crimea, then fight a low-level war for a couple of years, and people focus on solving that issue instead of your land grab.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/ukraine-peace-talks-yield-cease-fire-deal-1423731958?mod=europe_home

Taking bets as to how long until this deal breaks down.
I think you have nailed Putin's tactics . IMHO in a year or so look to PUtin to move to the next state of his creation of "Greater Russia".

I am troubled by Germany and France's continued detemination to do business with Putin. In the long run I don't think you can do business with his type.
 
Childlike Empress, a lot of the mainstream Western media have been highlighting the corruption and other problems in Ukraine. However that doesn't justify Russian military sponsorship of violent separatists. Nor of the annexation of Crimea; an election as credible as a Soviet-era election is not a sufficient figleaf to justify that.
 
CBC reports that the ceasefire is to start on Sunday - I'm figuring the first violation will be reported Monday, and that fighting will be back on by the weekend.

I give it a bit longer then that,if for no other reason then PUtin wants to play possum for a while.
It that old Salami Strategy:take just a little slice at a time, not enough to fight over,until all the other guy has left is the string and that is not worth fighting over either.
 
Childlike Empress, a lot of the mainstream Western media have been highlighting the corruption and other problems in Ukraine. However that doesn't justify Russian military sponsorship of violent separatists. Nor of the annexation of Crimea; an election as credible as a Soviet-era election is not a sufficient figleaf to justify that.


jimbob, did you pause even a second in your quest to convince yourself that your sources of information are reliable when I posted the link to the recent Crimea study done by a reputable German research institution on the other side? Here are some more details. Fun fact:

Oriental Review said:
A few days ago an interesting study, “The Socio-Political Sentiments in Crimea,” was released by the Ukrainian branch of GfK, the well-known German social research organization, as part of the Free Crimea initiative. Intriguingly, the primary objectives of this project, launched with the support of the governmental Canada Fund for Local Initiatives, were to “debunk aggressive Russian propaganda” and to “reintegrate Crimea into Ukraine.” Thus the researchers can hardly be suspected of being Russian sympathizers. So let’s take a look at the results.

The attitudes of Crimeans were studied in January 2015. This representative sample included 800 respondents living on the peninsula, from all age and social categories. The poll had an error margin of 3.5%.

In answer to the most important question: “Do you endorse Russia’s annexation of Crimea?” 82% of the respondents answered “yes, definitely,” and another 11% – “yes, for the most part.” Only 2% gave an unambiguously negative response, and another 2% offered a relatively negative assessment. Three percent did not specify their position.

We feel that this study fully validates the results of the referendum on reunification with Russia that was held on March 16, 2014. At that time 83% of Crimeans went to the polling stations and almost 97% expressed support for reunification.

Ukrainians continue to question whether this was a credible outcome, but it is now backed up by the data obtained by the Germans. The 82% of the respondents who expressed their full confidence in the results of the Russian election make up the core of the electorate who turned up at the ballot boxes on March 16, 2014. [...]


So, it's REALLY time to accept reality for you. ;)
 
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CBC reports that the ceasefire is to start on Sunday - I'm figuring the first violation will be reported Monday, and that fighting will be back on by the weekend.


Unfortunately I have to agree. FTR here is an English language copy of the agreement. I notice that it was not signed by Poroshenko on the Ukrainian side, but by former president Kuchma, so it's debatable how official it is anyway.

Meanwhile Yarosh is consolidating his parallel command structure of Nazi militias and it is entirely possible that not so far down the road, we have the Ukrainian Army/National Guard fighting against them as well, making it a three-way desaster.
 
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A grim but plausible assessment of the situation on the ground. Apparently Porky was waiting for news from his incompetent staff, that's (one reason) why the negotiations took that long. And apparently he is the one who asked for the delay until Sunday. If you want to take a look at the map, Logvinovo is here, the cauldron is south of it.
 
I am troubled by Germany and France's continued detemination to do business with Putin. In the long run I don't think you can do business with his type.
You can't really not do business with Russia when you're European. You can if you're American, the Great Bear's a long way away for them, but Europe's had to deal with it for five hundred years, however reluctantly. It looms large. Not as large as it has in the past, but large all the same.
 
So, if an illegal annexation is popular, then it's OK? Hmm.
If it's popular (which was the intent, I think) it's here to stay for a while.

When you consider how important Crimea is in the Russian national narrative, and how little it really means in any Ukrainian national narrative, it was madness to give it to Ukraine in the first place - and madness for them to take it.

Of course, now it's becoming important in Ukrainian national narratives, and not in a way which bodes well for the future. More in an Alsace and Lorraine sort of way.
 
It's actually more bizarre than that...

He denied ever denying that the Little Green Men were Russian troops.
It's so very, very Soviet, isn't it? Black is white, then it's black again, then it's white and it's always been white.

Putin has not emerged from that culture, and he isn't alone in there.
 
It's so very, very Soviet, isn't it? Black is white, then it's black again, then it's white and it's always been white.

Putin has not emerged from that culture, and he isn't alone in there.


You want that "he"'s there, but at least you build an imaginary bridge to a place where "he" isn't alone in there. ;)
 
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I give it a bit longer then that,if for no other reason then PUtin wants to play possum for a while.
But Putin has no control over the separists, remember? A popular uprising is nothing to do with him. The best he can do is use his good offices to encourage the separists to give it a break. :rolleyes:

It's all very Soviet.
 
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