Continuation Part 13: Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito

[platonov]

Marco Morin, I thought I recognized that name. He's mentioned in your article as one of the "world's leading experts in ballistics" yet he doesn't want to work in Italian Courts as their forensic standards are so poor:

<snip>

Kaosium.
[I thought I recognized that name]

Did you catch any of RS’s latest ‘We were together all evening, she couldn’t have been definitely wasn't involved – I’d stake (25 years of) my life on it’ appearance.
I know you have a great interest in Nov5/6. Have you none in the events of Nov1/2 as explained by Raffy.
I also know that, like me, brevity is your forte but am a little surprised that you have nothing at all to say on the matter.

As a habitué of these threads, the sudden interest in the details of the sexual assault the victim suffered in the attack that ended her life along with images of her bloodied clothes would seem to indicate that the interview didn’t bode well for AK.

What do you think?

 

[Annella]

Did you also happen to catch this rather telling quote in the same piece from Gen Garofano (an erstwhile pro-guilt favourite no less!) about the farcical nature of crime scene forensic investigation in Italy (my bolding):

And former General Luciano Garofano, long head of Ris of Parma, admits the cultural lag, "The police has made leaps and bounds in the technique of the inspection and the laboratory tests, but much remains to be done. At the crime scene should go only pure specialists that we have not."

It's a shocking and manifestly dreadful error that not-a-real-doctor Stefanoni and her crew were let loose on the crime scene in the cottage. They obviously did not know how to do things properly, yet they blustered and blundered on regardless. In the process of course, they compromised, contaminated, destroyed and overlooked (in varying degrees) pretty much ALL the important physical forensic evidence in this critical case. At least they had the decency (hubris?) to videotape their slapdash and harmful efforts, which would be comical if they didn't have such serious implications.

Some more from retired Judge Mori....

"It is also a total failure of the Italian justice system that uses as experts belonging to the police that, certainly in good faith, however, are psychologically worn to support the work of their colleagues and investigators to please the PM ( Prosecutor)"

 

[platonov]

Unreliable memories

Did you also happen to catch this rather telling quote in the same piece from Gen Garofano (an erstwhile pro-guilt favourite no less!) about the farcical nature of crime scene forensic investigation in Italy (my bolding):

<snip>

LJ

Did you also happen to catch the explanation you asked for.

How do you account for the contradiction between your ‘early and precise ToD’ and your explanation of RS’s latest interview i.e. ‘wasn’t sure if she slipped out while he was asleep’.

Have you dropped your ‘dead by 9.20 with a p value of 0.998’ theory? Thousands upon thousands of words and now you cast it off without a thought.

It seems such a waste.

 

[Desert Fox]

I think the evidence for an early death, approximately 21:00, is pretty overwhelming. The phones call she did not make, that she had not settled in for the night, and the digestion all point towards this.

 

[Machiavelli]

Did you also happen to catch this rather telling quote in the same piece from Gen Garofano (an erstwhile pro-guilt favourite no less!) about the farcical nature of crime scene forensic investigation in Italy (my bolding):

And former General Luciano Garofano, long head of Ris of Parma, admits the cultural lag, "The police has made leaps and bounds in the technique of the inspection and the laboratory tests, but much remains to be done. At the crime scene should go only pure specialists that we have not."

It's a shocking and manifestly dreadful error that not-a-real-doctor Stefanoni and her crew were let loose on the crime scene in the cottage. They obviously did not know how to do things properly, yet they blustered and blundered on regardless. In the process of course, they compromised, contaminated, destroyed and overlooked (in varying degrees) pretty much ALL the important physical forensic evidence in this critical case. At least they had the decency (hubris?) to videotape their slapdash and harmful efforts, which would be comical if they didn't have such serious implications.

Stefanoni is a Doctor, LJ

 

[Machiavelli]

I'm with you on this. I can't see Italy not having to go through the motions of making a request. I'd be very surprised if they haven't already been quietly informed that such a request won't be satisfied.

(...)

You bet Italy will make a request. Not doing it is no political option for the government.

 

[Bill Williams]

Stefanoni is a Doctor, LJ

Wikipedia: The first university of Western civilization, the University of Bologna, is located in Italy, where until modern times the only degree granted was that of the doctorate, and all other Italian universities followed that model. During the 20th century Italian universities introduced more advanced research degrees, such as the Ph.D., and now that it is part of the E.U. Bologna Process, a new three-year first degree, or “laurea” (equivalent to a B.A. of other countries), has been introduced. The old-style "laurea" is now known as "laurea magistrale/specialistica" (ISCED Level 6). For historical reasons, even to this day, the title of "dottore/dottoressa" (abbrev. both as dott/dott.ssa or as dr./dr.ssa ) is awarded even to those who have attended a "laurea". Upper levels of degree are anyway shown in the title, as those who obtain a master's degree can be referred to as "dottore/dottoressa magistrale" (masterly doctor) while those who achieve the relatively new program of "dottorato di ricerca" (research doctorate, equivalent of a Ph.D.), carry the title of "dottore/dottoressa di ricerca" (research doctor), which can be abbreviated as "Dott. Ric.", "Dr." or "Ph.D."

Which is Stefanoni?

 

[Desert Fox]

You bet Italy will make a request. Not doing it is no political option for the government.

Thank you for admitting the trial is a political trial and has nothing to do with the evidence. You also admitted why the US will most likely refuse.

 

[platonov]

I think the evidence for an early death, approximately 21:00, is pretty overwhelming. The phones call she did not make, that she had not settled in for the night, and the digestion all point towards this.

So you say - and many others before you.

But how does that square with Raffy’s latest TV appearance?
He can’t even confirm that she was with him when the movie ended at 21.10? Is that your argument?

Actually I think I see the problem here – Raffy doesn’t follow this thread
The fool – no wonder he is facing 25 21 years in prison.

 

[Machiavelli]

Vibio - are you insinuating that Bruno Vespa and his staff purposely tried to make Raffaele look innocent with their editorial decisions?

Are you saying that Vespa purposely let Raff off the hook by going light on him, despite the powerful media reputation you say Vespa has?

(....)

It is just something that everyone can see, that Marta Vanni prepared a package to cast Sollecito in the most favourable light possible. That does not mean it gave false information. It only refrained from giving information about evidence and negative things, and just focused on rising sympathetic feelings.

The first package was instead about the trial, and there the prominent aspect - besides the lack of details - was the highligthing of the Florentine "separation" defence strategy.

Bruno Vespa is often considered a showman rather than a journalist.
However - despite the most favourable setting of the program - Bruno Vespa himself did not seem to believe in Sollecito's innocence, that was apparent too.

 

[Diocletus]

You bet Italy will make a request. Not doing it is no political option for the government.

There's many a slip twixt the cup and the lip.

 

[Machiavelli]

Thank you for admitting the trial is a political trial and has nothing to do with the evidence. You also admitted why the US will most likely refuse.

The trial is not political. Where did I say that? You are starting to get visions too.

Italian governments do not have an option of not asking for extraditions. They don't have this political strenght, it's unpopular, and governments are weak. This is on any verdict, not just Amanda Knox.

 

[Desert Fox]

So you say - and many others before you.

But how does that square with Raffy’s latest TV appearance?
He can’t even confirm that she was with him when the movie ended at 21.10? Is that your argument?

Actually I think I see the problem here – Raffy doesn’t follow this thread
The fool – no wonder he is facing 25 21 years in prison.

The Italian prosecutors and judges bounce the time all over the clock.
He is trying to, as best as possible, cover his bases because who knows what garbage the Italian legal system will pull out of their hat next.

 

[Bill Williams]

It is just something that everyone can see, that Marta Vanni prepared a package to cast Sollecito in the most favourable light possible. That does not mean it gave false information. It only refrained from giving information about evidence and negative things, and just focused on rising sympathetic feelings.

The first package was instead about the trial, and there the prominent aspect - besides the lack of details - was the highligthing of the Florentine "separation" defence strategy.

Bruno Vespa is often considered a showman rather than a journalist.
However - despite the most favourable setting of the program - Bruno Vespa himself did not seem to believe in Sollecito's innocence, that was apparent too.

Machiavelli - So we've been told.

 

[Diocletus]

It is just something that everyone can see, that Marta Vanni prepared a package to cast Sollecito in the most favourable light possible. That does not mean it gave false information. It only refrained from giving information about evidence and negative things, and just focused on rising sympathetic feelings.

The first package was instead about the trial, and there the prominent aspect - besides the lack of details - was the highligthing of the Florentine "separation" defence strategy.

Bruno Vespa is often considered a showman rather than a journalist.
However - despite the most favourable setting of the program - Bruno Vespa himself did not seem to believe in Sollecito's innocence, that was apparent too.

I love the florentine separation strategy.

 

[Desert Fox]

The trial is not political. Where did I say that? You are starting to get visions too.

Italian governments do not have an option of not asking for extraditions. They don't have this political strenght, it's unpopular, and governments are weak. This is on any verdict, not just Amanda Knox.

The politics which convicted Amanda are internal Italian politics. When almost all legal scholars and forensic experts state that the case in nonsense, it certainly is not about the evidence.

 

[Machiavelli]

Wikipedia: The first university of Western civilization, the University of Bologna, is located in Italy, where until modern times the only degree granted was that of the doctorate, and all other Italian universities followed that model. During the 20th century Italian universities introduced more advanced research degrees, such as the Ph.D., and now that it is part of the E.U. Bologna Process, a new three-year first degree, or “laurea” (equivalent to a B.A. of other countries), has been introduced. The old-style "laurea" is now known as "laurea magistrale/specialistica" (ISCED Level 6). For historical reasons, even to this day, the title of "dottore/dottoressa" (abbrev. both as dott/dott.ssa or as dr./dr.ssa ) is awarded even to those who have attended a "laurea". Upper levels of degree are anyway shown in the title, as those who obtain a master's degree can be referred to as "dottore/dottoressa magistrale" (masterly doctor) while those who achieve the relatively new program of "dottorato di ricerca" (research doctorate, equivalent of a Ph.D.), carry the title of "dottore/dottoressa di ricerca" (research doctor), which can be abbreviated as "Dott. Ric.", "Dr." or "Ph.D."

Which is Stefanoni?

She has both "laurea specialistica" (mastere degree) and PhD.

I already said this in the past.

But by the way the wikipedia entry is not wholly correct.
The first distinction in degrees in Italy is "laurea di primo livello" or "laurea breve", and "laura di secondo livello" or "laurea specialistica". The first is an equivalent of a B.A, the latter is a master degree.
However this distinction is very recent in Italy. When I got my degree, there were no short degrees, you could take only a master degree.
At the time when Stefenoni got her degree she chould only get a master degree (that was 5 years at the time). Then she became research doctor and assistent professor.

 

[platonov]

I'm going to run out of smileys soon

The Italian prosecutors and judges bounce the time all over the clock.
He is trying to, as best as possible, cover his bases because who knows what garbage the Italian legal system will pull out of their hat next.

Is that your best shot?

All he has to do is state she was with him from 9 till midnight. I know clocks are something of a mystery in cartwheel world but is that really such a difficult concept?

 

[Kaosium]

Kaosium.
[I thought I recognized that name]

Did you catch any of RS’s latest ‘We were together all evening, she couldn’t have been definitely wasn't involved – I’d stake (25 years of) my life on it’ appearance.
I know you have a great interest in Nov5/6. Have you none in the events of Nov1/2 as explained by Raffy.
I also know that, like me, brevity is your forte but am a little surprised that you have nothing at all to say on the matter.

I didn't see it, I still don't understand Italian. Raffaele's position doesn't confuse me at all, it never has. He doesn't think Amanda went out that night, he doesn't remember anything suggesting she killed someone and came back to him, but he doesn't want to get convicted of murder just because he's an alibi. He cannot be certain she didn't sneak out at some time when he was sleeping or unaware of her leaving so he's hoping that if they feel they must convict Amanda to leave him out of it.

Regarding a previous comment of yours that others found obscure but I thought I understood, if Raffaele just had to account for Amanda's whereabouts until 9:30 PM, by which time the murder had almost certainly occurred, it would be one thing. However the prosecution has managed to place the ToD as late as 11:45 PM and their reality is what he must account for, not 9:30.

As a habitué of these threads, the sudden interest in the details of the sexual assault the victim suffered in the attack that ended her life along with images of her bloodied clothes would seem to indicate that the interview didn’t bode well for AK.

What do you think?

I like your use of habitué. I have no idea why you think there's a connection between the one and the other.

 

[Machiavelli]

The politics which convicted Amanda are internal Italian politics. When almost all legal scholars and forensic experts state that the case in nonsense, it certainly is not about the evidence.

Don't you ever see anything circular in your thought processes?