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The stupid explodes: obesity now a disability

cullennz said:
Your average world class sumo wrestler would out do your average 200 meter runner in fitness. I would almost put money on it
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It depends what you mean by "fitness". They are certainly fitter for sumo wrestling but even though 200m runners are not sprinters, I'd still guess they would be less bad at long distance running.

As for health.

Retired sumo wrestlers are not so healthy. Not a fully referenced link but I think it is probably valid

A ten-year difference in life expectancy is huge. According to wiki, that's the difference between Japan and Dominica (for men) (or the US and Tajikistan)
 
With done density variations, how much is the difference in skeleton weights? Same height, what is the variance? 20 pounds? or three?
 
casebro said:
With done density variations, how much is the difference in skeleton weights? Same height, what is the variance? 20 pounds? or three?
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Well, bone desnity is just one example of something a person cannot change about their own body that does affect metabolism.

I gave another example of lung capacity. A person can train and increase their lung capacity. That does not mean they will have the capability to become the next Michael Phelps or Lance Armstrong (even if Armstrong did cheat.)

The point is, everyone's body is different. You can change the physiology of your own body to some degree (and it can be quite drastic). But you cannot change it to be or act just like another person's. That point, somehow, was completely lost on a few people.
 
Nihilianth said:
The point is, everyone's body is different. You can change the physiology of your own body to some degree (and it can be quite drastic). But you cannot change it to be or act just like another person's. That point, somehow, was completely lost on a few people.
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Do you have to change your metabolism to lose weight?
 
Nihilianth said:
Well, bone desnity is just one example of something a person cannot change about their own body that does affect metabolism.

I gave another example of lung capacity. A person can train and increase their lung capacity. That does not mean they will have the capability to become the next Michael Phelps or Lance Armstrong (even if Armstrong did cheat.)

The point is, everyone's body is different. You can change the physiology of your own body to some degree (and it can be quite drastic). But you cannot change it to be or act just like another person's. That point, somehow, was completely lost on a few people.
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Still doesn't change the fact that the only way to get fat is to eat more than you burn.
 
cullennz said:
No offence to you, as I know you mean well, but I can't believe you even have to post these points.

Are people so thick they can't figure this out by themselves?
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People think that people are overweight or obese because they have a 'slow metabolism'.

Theoretically, it makes sense, however, the evidence just doesn't back this up.

So, no, people are not thick for thinking this.
 
Nihilianth said:
Well, bone desnity is just one example of something a person cannot change about their own body that does affect metabolism.

I gave another example of lung capacity. A person can train and increase their lung capacity. That does not mean they will have the capability to become the next Michael Phelps or Lance Armstrong (even if Armstrong did cheat.)

The point is, everyone's body is different. You can change the physiology of your own body to some degree (and it can be quite drastic). But you cannot change it to be or act just like another person's. That point, somehow, was completely lost on a few people.
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There are biological reasons for variation in weight and susceptibility for obesity, but again, bone density is not one of them.

Bone is metabolically active and remodels itself due to various stressors, one of them being weight. The more weight you have, the greater your bone density, so again, overweight people will have greater bone density and by your faulty hypothesis, a higher metabolism (which they do because of their greater mass to maintain).

As well, the whole old wives tale of 'big bones' really doesn't hold any water as the difference in weight appears to be minimal (see the bolded below).

This has been well researched due to the almost epidemic osteoporosis in elderly women, so there is a lot of research on this topic.

We have done bone density scans on loads and loads of people to know this.


http://jn.nutrition.org/content/136/6/1453.full

Bone, Body Weight, and Weight Reduction: What Are the Concerns?1,2


A low body weight is associated with low bone mass (1) and an increased risk of fractures (2), whereas obesity is associated with increased bone mass (3) and reduced bone turnover (4,5) and loss (6,7).

Although the additional bone mass in obese compared with lean subjects contributes only ∼0.5 kg of total body weight or 1% of body weight (5), it is ∼20% of total bone mineral content, thus making a substantial contribution to the higher risk of osteoporosis in lean compared with obese subjects.
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I bet it wouldn't take much digging to find bigger/overweight people have a greater lung capacity as well.


I would recommend you look more towards genetic polymorphisms, like GLP-2, ghrelin, leptin...........
 
marplots said:
Naw, but "she's" like that. So, let's look at her specifically. Should she be entitled to disability?
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If she meets the entitlement criteria, yes.

A handful of people maybe gaming the system is the price we pay for ensuring that tens or hundreds of thousands are not forced into penury.


edited to add.....

In her case, should she be forced to have a surgery where there is a significant risk of death ?
 
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I worked in New Addington for a while. Believeme when I sat people milk the system.. Bur it is byby no means the majority. It is just inter generational welfare dependency based on socio economic circumstaces. This did not make it less annoying to have to hurt someone to give older people a safe triphome
 
The Don said:
If she meets the entitlement criteria, yes.

A handful of people maybe gaming the system is the price we pay for ensuring that tens or hundreds of thousands are not forced into penury.


edited to add.....

In her case, should she be forced to have a surgery where there is a significant risk of death ?
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No, I don't think so. I think it's great that it is offered, but she can kill herself with obesity if she prefers that option.

The rest is up for grabs, and there is much in the middle ground. For example, if she chooses to forgo surgery, but wants those other things (maybe insulin for type II diabetes or, as it mentions in the article, a mobility chair), then it might be proper to make those things part of the choice as well - if you choose not to have surgery, you are choosing not to have these other accessories. In other words, allowing patients to decouple from a treatment plan by choosing which options they want off the menu might not be a good idea either.
 
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Let me get this straight,

She claims she is not fat because of a lack of exercise but is unable to even keep her home clean? Absolutely unbelievable!

Cooked breakfasts are a treat for me as well but I manage to have one once a week if I am lucky!
 
marplots said:
No, I don't think so. I think it's great that it is offered, but she can kill herself with obesity if she prefers that option.

The rest is up for grabs, and there is much in the middle ground. For example, if she chooses to forgo surgery, but wants those other things (maybe insulin for type II diabetes or, as it mentions in the article, a mobility chair), then it might be proper to make those things part of the choice as well - if you choose not to have surgery, you are choosing not to have these other accessories. In other words, allowing patients to decouple from a treatment plan by choosing which options they want off the menu might not be a good idea either.
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Compelling people to follow a specific treatment regime on the threat of having other treatment and/or benefits (welfare) withdrawn sounds like the thin end of a wedge with which I do not want to be involved.

It'll end up with too many value judgements being made to the detriment of many and will end up with deserving/undeserving poor and sick people. I can appreciate the sentiment but it feels like a very blunt instrument to me.
 
The Don said:
Compelling people to follow a specific treatment regime on the threat of having other treatment and/or benefits (welfare) withdrawn sounds like the thin end of a wedge with which I do not want to be involved.

It'll end up with too many value judgements being made to the detriment of many and will end up with deserving/undeserving poor and sick people. I can appreciate the sentiment but it feels like a very blunt instrument to me.
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I'm not completely satisfied with it either, but I don't like the idea of a non-expert (the patient) assuming the role of sole decision maker. Going down that path would have us pay for anything the patient deems appropriate, including things we think are flat-out woo.

And, I have to say the method isn't without precedent. For example (and I don't know if this is still true), it was a condition of methadone treatment that enrollees had to also submit to behavioral modification therapy to get their drug.
 
marplots said:
I'm not completely satisfied with it either, but I don't like the idea of a non-expert (the patient) assuming the role of sole decision maker. Going down that path would have us pay for anything the patient deems appropriate, including things we think are flat-out woo.

And, I have to say the method isn't without precedent. For example (and I don't know if this is still true), it was a condition of methadone treatment that enrollees had to also submit to behavioral modification therapy to get their drug.
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Nobody else should make the decision providing the patient is capable of informed consent.

Especially an operation that must have a non-negligible risk of complications.
 
I haven't read the link, just hovered over it but it is the Metro, which is the free version of the Mail. The story is probably true, even so, but I doubt it says much beyond the fact that there is someone who is feckless.
 
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