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Global warming discussion III

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NO STATISTICALLY SIGNIFICANT WARMING

"No statistically significant warming" is not the same as "no warming".

In climate science something is "statistically significant" when the odds of it being true are more than 95%. The odds that there was warming from 1995 to 2009 could be as high as 94% and it would not be called "statistically significant".

Another argument that has been answered over and over again.

P.S. you might want to run the calculation including the years up to 2014.
 
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I already DID and it's HERE ...

In my previous response challenged you to point out which part of these newspaper articles contains statistical analysis supporting your assertion that there has been no recent warming. I'm still waiting.


Since you now say they also provide proof that the rest of the solar system is warming (despite the fact they apparently show the earth is an exception) and provide a mechanism that is causing this.

Once again I was unable to find this in the articles and have to ask you to point out the sections you think address this.


Pause or Warming Hiatus or Slowdown or as I say sometimes Simmer .... it's ALL the Same i.e. NO STATISTICALLY SIGNIFICANT WARMING for nearly two decades


"No statistically significant trend" means the time period under consideration is too short to establish a trend. Since "no warming" is also a trend that conclusion is also excluded. This statement disproved your assertion that warming has stopped.

You can't say "warming has stopped" until you have a statistically significant trend <= to zero. The statistically meaningful trends show warming, end of story.
 
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This exposes the fallacy of your contention :)

This gives The Sun's Polar Field strength from 1976 to the present time. Notice how weak the Sun is now compared to the last century when it was strong and very active. Global warming was the result

Again, how is magnetic activity on the Sun changing temperatures on the earth? What physical mechanism ties these magnetic fields back to temperature changes on the earth?
 
None of which answers the question you were asked. Nor do the links that work say what you claim they say. So in other words you just thump your particular bible and Gish gallop around the room.

What question was that ? :cool:

This is a great answer :D

CLIMATE MODELS ARE OUT OF PHASE WITH REALITY

The standard argument now from the CO2 obsessed is that over multidecadal time periods the natural enhancements and suppressions of global warming will cancel out because ENSO and the AMO are oscillations. Unfortunately, as we’ve noted, the models align with the warming during a period when that warming was enhanced by two modes of natural variability, and the models fail to consider the multidecadal suppression of warming…for the next couple of decades and any future suppressions of warming.

In other words, the models are out of phase with reality. There’s nothing new about that statement. Skeptics have been pointing that out for years.

For example, Figure 3 illustrates a sine wave with a 60-year frequency. That will represent our data. It is arbitrarily scaled…in other words, it is not scaled to surface temperatures. The maximums occur at 1885, 1945 and 2005, while the minimums occurred at 1915 and 1975. That roughly aligns with the multidecadal variations in the surface temperature record from 1885 to present. Continuing the 60-year cycle into the future gives us another minimum at 2035, the next maximum at 2065 and yet another minimum at 2095. The red line shows a “model” that aligns with the trend from 1975-2005, and in a maroon dotted line, continues that “model” trend out into the future. As you can see, the model and projection bear no relationship with the underlying cyclical nature of the data.
 
You can't say "warming has stopped" until you have a statistically significant trend <= to zero. The statistically meaningful trends show warming, end of story.
Precisely.

Let us also not forget that "statistical significance" is an arbitrary concept, not an absolute. That is to say, a significance of 94% is not qualitatively different from 95% (the arbitrary minimum for "statistical significance"); it represents a 6 in 100 chance of the result being by chance rather than 5 in 100. Not a significant difference.

When this claim of "no statistically significant warming" first came up in 2010, using surface data up to 2009, the relevant significance was 93%. Within the first six months of 2010 it reached 95%.
 
Are we really required to pretend to take seriously someone who posts outright lies?
Nope. We are required to avoid curse-words though.

I find these people useful foils and salutory examples of how denier minds work, for those who are as yet unaware of their peculiarities. One should encourage them to come out into society so that their unattractiveness can take effect. :cool:
 
What question was that ? :cool:

Two questions; "why ocean heat is thru the roof" and the more fundamental question "does co2 absorb IR?"

This is a great answer :D

No it isn't. It's a terrible answer and not even to the question asked. Utter fabrications do not support valid science.

[URL="http://<<utter horsepoop snipped for length>>][/QUOTE]
 
So your saying the Met Office is wrong when they talk about a PAUSE :D

The recent pause in global warming PDF

Funny to read that bit at the end about the HEAT going into the oceans. What changed ? Didn't the HEAT go into the oceans in the 20th century too ?

Of course it did :p

Did you actually read the paper?:

"When projections from the newer CMIP5 models are combined with observations, and specifically including the surface temperatures from the last 10 years, the upper bound of projections of warming are slightly reduced, but the lower bound is largely unchanged. More importantly, the most likely warming is reduced by only 10%, indicating that the warming that we might previously have expected by 2050 would be delayed by only a few years."
 
Are you kidding me, that graph doesn't even show real data. It is a complete fabrication.

Lol, reminds me of this piece of comedy gold from the sadly now defunct Denial Depot - this is actually based on a real graph circulating in the deniersphere which remember the first time someone posted it on another forum, the notion of just drawing a "natural" line through the graph based on absolutely nothing was hilariously absurd:

http://denialdepot.blogspot.com.au/2012/04/hadcrap4.html

picture.php
 
I am really worried about wading into the fray here. But as a long time believer that global warming is real AND man made, I ran into this article on Phys.org and it was suprising to me.

http://phys.org/news/2015-01-peer-reviewed-pocket-calculator-climate-exposes-errors.html

I would LOVE to find that my viewpoint on global warming is wrong. According to the article anyway, the original paper "survived three rounds of tough peer review in which two of the reviewers had at first opposed the paper on the ground that it questioned the IPCC's predictions."

The paper's authors state "Our work suggests that Man's influence on climate may have been much overstated. The role of the Sun has been undervalued. Our model helps to present a more balanced view."

Again, I am a stanch supporter of the man made global warming theory so please don't attack the messenger here. However, I am also a strong believer of the ability of science to be self correcting and, as much as my pride might take a hit, I would be completely willing to change my viewpoint in light of new evidence (provided that the evidence is fact based of course).

Has anyone read more about the subject paper or see any holes in the author's argument?
 
I am really worried about wading into the fray here. But as a long time believer that global warming is real AND man made, I ran into this article on Phys.org and it was suprising to me.

http://phys.org/news/2015-01-peer-reviewed-pocket-calculator-climate-exposes-errors.html

I would LOVE to find that my viewpoint on global warming is wrong. According to the article anyway, the original paper "survived three rounds of tough peer review in which two of the reviewers had at first opposed the paper on the ground that it questioned the IPCC's predictions."

The paper's authors state "Our work suggests that Man's influence on climate may have been much overstated. The role of the Sun has been undervalued. Our model helps to present a more balanced view."

Again, I am a stanch supporter of the man made global warming theory so please don't attack the messenger here. However, I am also a strong believer of the ability of science to be self correcting and, as much as my pride might take a hit, I would be completely willing to change my viewpoint in light of new evidence (provided that the evidence is fact based of course).

Has anyone read more about the subject paper or see any holes in the author's argument?


Just a couple thing that immediately jump out at me.

They keep saying what a respectable important journal it was published in, rather than the big name peer review journals or climate/atmospheric science specific journals it's an English language Chinese journal. Despite it's association with the Chinese Academy of Science it's impact factor is a relatively low 1.37

Second. Disagreeing with a large body of previous work without explaining why your results are different and putting forward a case for them being superior IS cause for failing peer review.

The paper claims it's virtue is simplicity, but when the simplified version gives different results that the full featured models the obvious conclusion is that it's been oversimplified and omitted important elements.


The graphic at the top purports to contrast observed warming vs a number of model results. It reports an observed warming trend going out to 2050, how we can have already observed the next 35 years is not explained.

Instead of the actual model run results they show only the final degrees per decade number from those results. The model results are not linear and have slower warming in the early period and faster warming later. This falsely represents the amount if warming they predicts in the "observed" period ending at 2050. In fact the actual results for even the highest emissions scenarios are much lower then drawn on this graphic.


On emissions scenarios, other than the Hansen "A" it doesn't say what emissions scenario the model model runs are for. The "A" scenario, however, is an ultra high CO2 emissions scenario designed to give the worst case possibility. Observed warming should come in below this level. (Actual observed forcing matches most closely to the "C" scenario). The actual Hansen "A" a scenario shows ~0.6 degrees of warming from 2000 - 2020, much lower than the 0.50 degrees C per decade the graphic climes, so again it looks like some outright dishonesty here.

The IPCC similarly does a wide range of emissions scenarios, they never justify which they are choosing and why, but some are clearly among the highest emission scenarios, while others are mid or low emissions scenarios. The pattern seems to be they pick higher emissions scenarios for older IPCC reports to try and create the false impression the IPCC is reducing it's warming projections as time goes on when in fact median expected Degrees C per doubling of CO2 has not change much in a long time.

It seems to me the whole point of the article is to make so many dishonest claims no one would take the time to debunk every singe one of them and if they did no one would read their efforts.
 
I am really worried about wading into the fray here. But as a long time believer that global warming is real AND man made, I ran into this article on Phys.org and it was suprising to me.

http://phys.org/news/2015-01-peer-reviewed-pocket-calculator-climate-exposes-errors.html

I would LOVE to find that my viewpoint on global warming is wrong. According to the article anyway, the original paper "survived three rounds of tough peer review in which two of the reviewers had at first opposed the paper on the ground that it questioned the IPCC's predictions."

The paper's authors state "Our work suggests that Man's influence on climate may have been much overstated. The role of the Sun has been undervalued. Our model helps to present a more balanced view."

Again, I am a stanch supporter of the man made global warming theory so please don't attack the messenger here. However, I am also a strong believer of the ability of science to be self correcting and, as much as my pride might take a hit, I would be completely willing to change my viewpoint in light of new evidence (provided that the evidence is fact based of course).

Has anyone read more about the subject paper or see any holes in the author's argument?

We have actually already discussed this paper in this thread, of course with the last rash of trash being thrown up against the screen front, this isn't the most reader friendly thread to wade through.

The discussion starts at post #1688 (page 43) and goes for a page or so, I ran across another analysis that went a little deeper into the "paper's" mish-mash but I didn't bookmark it. Let me give a look for it, I'll post a link if I can find it, I expect there to be more thorough examinations given to these assertions in the coming months (mainstream science isn't the popular press, researchers with their reputations on the line, generally like to take a bit of time to carefully dissect and analyze new papers before they publish, look for response letters in the Chinese journal over the next month or three, as well as in the more respected American and European journals).
 
Originally Posted by not_so_new View Post
I am really worried about wading into the fray here. But as a long time believer that global warming is real AND man made, I ran into this article on Phys.org and it was suprising to me.

http://phys.org/news/2015-01-peer-re...es-errors.html

Consider the sources....Soon and Monckton are infamous charlatans....

http://www.desmogblog.com/christopher-monckton

Koch & Exxon-funded Willie Soon Challenged by Students at ...
www.desmogblog.com/node/7044

Apr 9, 2013 ... Dr. Willie Soon is a Smithsonian Institution astrophysicist paid by Charles Koch, ExxonMobil, the American Petroleum Institute and coal utility ...
Denial For Hire: Willie Soon's Career Fueled by Big Oil, Coal and ...
www.desmogblog.com/denial-hire-willie-soon-s-career-fueled-big-oil-coal- and-koch-money

Jun 28, 2011 ... Willie Soon, the notorious climate denier who has made a career out of attacking the IPCC and climate scientists, has received over $1 million ...

put it on ignore - you have better things to do with your time....pinochle maybe.....far more rewarding... ;)
 
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The paper's authors state "Our work suggests that Man's influence on climate may have been much overstated. The role of the Sun has been undervalued. Our model helps to present a more balanced view."
None of the paper's authors are to be trusted as far as you could spit them.

AndThenThersPhysics deals with this

https://andthentheresphysics.wordpress.com/2015/01/15/the-designers-of-our-climate/

In his career, Soon has denied the existence of acid rain, health effects of environmental lead, the ozone hole, harmful imact of DDT and I think the health effects of smoking. When Fred Singer is hired to get a denial campaign going Willie Soon is one of the first people he calls, along with the Idsos and Lindzen.

I've been following denial campaigns for a long time (not so new myself :)) and this one is no different, it's just more prominent (since there's more money involved) and has the interwebs to work with instead of just the usual media.
 
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