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Merged Senate Report on CIA Torture Program

I don't normally like to point stuff like this out, but the apologistics have really dried up in this thread since New Year.

(realizing that I'm just asking for the obvious jokes) What gives?
 
And many zealots claim that sinners who have disobeyed the dubious tenets of their favored creed go to be tortured for all time, because they choose to go to hell. That is, they are masochists and desirous of torture. Whereas, those in heaven get to sit around all day and view with giggly enjoyment the screams of agony of those whose flesh is being rent from their bodies by the flames of hellfire. That is, the heaven bound are sadists and eager to harm or to be voyeurs of tortured acquaintances with whom they have disagreed.

If that is not enough, there is enough bondage and discipline in Christianity to qualify for a genuine total BDSM experience.;) Oh, and we can throw in a little "Take eat the body and blood" of your spiritual leader, to complete the appeal of religious belief with a bit of cannibalism.

Full featured religious experience.
 
Upchurch said:
I don't normally like to point stuff like this out, but the apologistics have really dried up in this thread since New Year.

(realizing that I'm just asking for the obvious jokes) What gives?
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Their party is in power now, and they don't need to aggravate us anymore. I suspect they are worried about what their efforts have wrought.:)

Not really.
 
Olowkow said:
Their party is in power now, and they don't need to aggravate us anymore. I suspect they are worried about what their efforts have wrought.:)

Not really.
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Also, it's faded out of the mainstream news cycle. If nobody talks about it anymore, the problem goes away. That's how things work.
 
So, no prosecutions for gross breach of agreements to which the USA is signatory?

I hope they don't get upset about russia invading the Ukraine (I mean, the Russians signed something, but that means nothing, right?) or anyone else, anywhere else int he world reneging on their obligations.

It absolutely turns my stomach that this happens, is confessed and then nothing. Not a thing. No balls, no courage, no will to do what is right and, bottom line, no honour. None.

The US is now a powerful rogue state, unbound by any international law, any international agreement and any international treaty because, apparently, these things are optional.

Sickening.




ETA. There are clearly some that appreciate how important it is for the US to deliver on it's agreements:

http://washington.cbslocal.com/2015...testers-interrupt-senate-floor-prosecute-now/
 
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Upchurch said:
I don't normally like to point stuff like this out, but the apologistics have really dried up in this thread since New Year.
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It would be nice if people could come to the realization that their arguments suck and change their mind. I did. When I was arguing in favor of "enhanced interrogation tactics", I experienced cognitive dissonance. We often argue to convince ourselves. The euphamism is BS. It's torture and at best it works to extract confessions. At worst it causes long term harm, does violence to our founding principles and causes requires additional resources in order to separate the lies from the truth.

I can find zero justification for it.
 
RandFan said:
It would be nice if people could come to the realization that their arguments suck and change their mind.
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I was just thinking the same thing. ;)

And, by the way, I haven't been back to this thread because, after dozens of pages of careful and painstaking argument in which I felt I was actually making a little progress (and "winning," at least in my view ;)), the thread reverted to the same, tired, shallow arguments during a few days' absence, and it was as if my 194 (now 195) posts had gone down the memory hole. I have no interest in rehashing my arguments. The record is in the thread, and I am completely satisfied with it.
 
sunmaster14 said:
I was just thinking the same thing. ;)

And, by the way, I haven't been back to this thread because, after dozens of pages of careful and painstaking argument in which I felt I was actually making a little progress (and "winning," at least in my view ;)), the thread reverted to the same, tired, shallow arguments during a few days' absence, and it was as if my 194 (now 195) posts had gone down the memory hole. I have no interest in rehashing my arguments. The record is in the thread, and I am completely satisfied with it.
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It would be a fallacy to claim that the reason people have left the forum is because they are wrong. Yes, I know that it was implied. Having been on both sides of the issue I'm at a loss as to how arguing in favor of human rights and decency suck, but, hey, I could be wrong. :)
 
RandFan said:
It would be a fallacy to claim that the reason people have left the forum is because they are wrong. Yes, I know that it was implied. Having been on both sides of the issue I'm at a loss as to how arguing in favor of human rights and decency suck, but, hey, I could be wrong. :)
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Nothing says "tired and shallow" like "torture is a morally objectionable violation of human rights, the values we claim to uphold, and numerous laws and treaties."

Real, substantial arguments involve arguing that torture works because it does, and handwaving away evidence to the contrary with appeals to hypothetical action movie sequences.
 
Cleon said:
Nothing says "tired and shallow" like "torture is a morally objectionable violation of human rights, the values we claim to uphold, and numerous laws and treaties."

Real, substantial arguments involve arguing that torture works because it does, and handwaving away evidence to the contrary with appeals to hypothetical action movie sequences.
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Dick Cheney nor the CIA would ever lie to us in order to excuse their alleged criminal conduct.
 
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Cleon said:
Nothing says "tired and shallow" like "torture is a morally objectionable violation of human rights, the values we claim to uphold, and numerous laws and treaties."

Real, substantial arguments involve arguing that torture works because it does, and handwaving away evidence to the contrary with appeals to hypothetical action movie sequences.
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And TV shows.

I wrote a rebuttal BTW. Sometimes I'm a bit too quick to respond. :)
 
sunmaster14 said:
I was just thinking the same thing. ;)

And, by the way, I haven't been back to this thread because, after dozens of pages of careful and painstaking argument in which I felt I was actually making a little progress (and "winning," at least in my view ;)), the thread reverted to the same, tired, shallow arguments during a few days' absence, and it was as if my 194 (now 195) posts had gone down the memory hole. I have no interest in rehashing my arguments. The record is in the thread, and I am completely satisfied with it.
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Setting aside the moral issue here or any questions of the efficacy of torture, are you not at least a little concerned about the ongoing effect of the US admitting to a breach of agreements to which it is signatory and refusing to undertake its obligations under that agreement?
 
3point14 said:
Setting aside the moral issue here or any questions of the efficacy of torture, are you not at least a little concerned about the ongoing effect of the US admitting to a breach of agreements to which it is signatory and refusing to undertake its obligations under that agreement?
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To further the point, should we be concerned about the treatment of our soldiers and civilians abroad? Is there any value to moral high ground and good faith? What's the point of having rules if we change them to suit our purposes?
 
3point14 said:
Setting aside the moral issue here or any questions of the efficacy of torture, are you not at least a little concerned about the ongoing effect of the US admitting to a breach of agreements to which it is signatory and refusing to undertake its obligations under that agreement?
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Not only is the United States a signatory to international agreements/laws that ban torture, it has laws (at least two separate federal laws) of its own that make it a crime punishable by life in prison (or death if somebody dies as a result).
 
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