sylvan8798
Master Poster
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That's a pretty profound insight. While I'm more than willing to condemn the parents, it seems obvious there were more than gender issues here.
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Leelah Alcorn, transgender teen, commited suicide
- Thread starter patchbunny
- Start date
I was pretty impressed with the comments too yet there's been no mention of the support network over at Myers blog where they have a 240 post ragefest going on over this.
One thing that was missing on the Reddit was input along the lines of the parents are dealing with these issues in the only way they know how.
A guy I know from another forum underwent Landmark Worldwide training and part of that training involves going public and singing the praises of it, part of their marketing ploy I suppose. As a skeptic I naturally attacked it as a cult and the one thing that atheist buddy said that it did for him was make him deal with the fact that his religious mother only wanted the best for him and probably didn't him for being atheist in the way he was thinking. It could all be horse hockey but he seemed pretty sincere about reconciling things with mom.
Alcorn's parents never took the "get out of our house" route when that closet door swung open, so I suppose there's that to take into consideration as well.
One thing that was missing on the Reddit was input along the lines of the parents are dealing with these issues in the only way they know how.
A guy I know from another forum underwent Landmark Worldwide training and part of that training involves going public and singing the praises of it, part of their marketing ploy I suppose. As a skeptic I naturally attacked it as a cult and the one thing that atheist buddy said that it did for him was make him deal with the fact that his religious mother only wanted the best for him and probably didn't him for being atheist in the way he was thinking. It could all be horse hockey but he seemed pretty sincere about reconciling things with mom.
Alcorn's parents never took the "get out of our house" route when that closet door swung open, so I suppose there's that to take into consideration as well.
https://www.reddit.com/r/asktransgender/comments/2km6yt/is_this_considered_abuse/
This reddit on the other hand strikes me as validating and encouraging this kids feelings about life and parents. If there's much of that out there, I can see why a parent might feel that cutting them off from the internet was worth trying.
This reddit on the other hand strikes me as validating and encouraging this kids feelings about life and parents. If there's much of that out there, I can see why a parent might feel that cutting them off from the internet was worth trying.
By the time of that last reddit thread, short of somebody trying to organize a real world intervention, it looks too late for any sort of rational input to make any difference. Once again, very sad.
Agreed, it is very sad and since this is about raw emotion governing actions being rational might not have been the best approach at that instant in time.
Somebody might have tried.....Why don't you stick it to both your parents and society by continuing to live your life the way you want to ? Make your continuing existence a constant lifelong affront to their conservative values.
Something like that.
Cl1mh4224rd
Philosopher
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How do you separate them, especially when what they're expressing is their belief?
Last edited:
And the quality (type) of evidence.
Agreed, bad erxample perhaps, but any example would do. Darat's argument (IIUC) is that we must decide any case on what evidence we have. I'm simply saying that can't always be the case. Sometimes we should look for more or better evidence. It's a philosophic argument that's rather off topic for this thread though, so I'm leaving it at that.
Same as in any social case. Is the story we have true? What evidence do we have to support that? Do we have both sides of the story and do they agree or clash?
Like I said, it's not strictly on topic for the thread itself.
I only actually know what one teenager was like. Much of my memory of him is probably wrong. I do know that my parents sometimes had a better idea of what I was really like than I had, because I fantasised a lot.
I'm not saying that's the case here. I'm saying I don't know.
Lionking,
I read the OP.
Of the three links in the OP, only the first worked for me.
The second does nothing , so I have been unable to read the parents' version.
The third (tumbr) link showed a "Nothing here" message.
Information Analyst
Penultimate Amazing
Sadly true. I used to know someone who was a supervisor on a train cleaning crew, and she once told me that if one came in that someone had jumped in front of, so cleaned it herself, because she didn't think it right to order anyone else to. She said, though, that it was nothing compared to what the drivers had experienced, and that some of them could never work again.
Quite... A mate of mine works fixing trains. They aparantly have to watch some pretty grizzly safety videos of what happens if you don't pay attention around trains. Now you can probably see worse on YouTube. Cleaning up after cant be much fun.
ThunderChunky
Master Poster
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They're grieving, that's how they view their child, and the press is coming to them. It not like accepting a transgender identity after the suicide is going to change anything for the kid.
Meadmaker
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You aren't serious are you?
I mean, the kid was a male, biologically. That isn't an issue. He* just identified himself as a female. She felt female. She declared herself female. The medical exam will show that she was male.
The thing about transgender people is that they have the body of one gender, but they think of themselves as the other gender, and wish to be identified by others as the other gender.
Personally, I have some really mixed feelings about how far we should take their self-identification. There are certain issues that get kind of complicated once we start calling people girls, despite the fact that they are perfectly capable of siring children in the standard, old-fashioned, manner. However, if you accept the concept of transgender, then you should know that nothing in a medical exam will tell you anything about the gender of the individual.
*Writing he/she is just too complicated. I'll mix and match.
sylvan8798
Master Poster
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Can you expound on this?
Meadmaker
Unregistered
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My biggest issue is locker rooms or other gender segregated public places where nudity is normal. I'm of the opinion that if people see boy parts, they are going to react as if those parts are attached to a boy. Similarly with girl parts. I think until you are surgically altered, use the facilities that match the plumbing. I wouldn't want a bunch of naked teenaged boys hanging out with what they perceive as a naked teenaged girl, even if that teenaged girl self-identifies as a boy.
I'm told that, these days, high school kids in the United States never take showers after gym class anymore, so it isn't the issue that it would have been back in my day. If you search the archives, you can find a thread or two about it.
Beanbag
Illuminator
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The noise and pain just got too much, so she decided to leave.
Selfish? No -- hurting. Couldn't see any way out, couldn't see any chance of things getting better, so she took what she thought was her only option.
Members of the pack can rely on each other for support. But when you're an outcast and not part of the in group, then all you can rely on is yourself.
I think that, yes, indeed, there are selfish actors in this tragedy. The deceased ain't one of them.
But I'm almost certain you'll disagree with this. Have a nice day.
Beanbag
Walter Ego
Illuminator
