Slowvehicle
Membership Drive , Co-Ordinator,, Russell's Antin
Near Death and Out of Body Experiences
- Thread starter zengirl
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Slowvehicle
Membership Drive , Co-Ordinator,, Russell's Antin
Interesting how you do not realize that the highlighted is inconsistent, mutually exclusive, with the "D" in "NDE"...
Slowvehicle
Membership Drive , Co-Ordinator,, Russell's Antin
What you are missing (intentionally?) is that there are not, in fact, "...millions of obe's around the world...".
There are, at best, millions of claims of "obe's", which, when tested, stand on equal footing with claims of the efficacy of supplicatory prayer, claims of "communication with the dead", claims of "paranormal abilities" and claims in support of the designated hitter rule.
Candyfloss =/= corroboration.
Slowvehicle
Membership Drive , Co-Ordinator,, Russell's Antin
...evidence...?
Slowvehicle
Membership Drive , Co-Ordinator,, Russell's Antin
1. What do you mean, "we"?
2. In what way is this seeming manifested? In whay way can you support this claim?
3. Do note that they "knew" things others said they "could not have known about; NOT things they could not have known about.
tsig
a carbon based life-form
- Joined
- Nov 25, 2005
- Messages
- 39,049
The broader question is if we have these fine doppelganger bodies why are we dumping about in these physical ones?
jaydeehess
Penultimate Amazing
The "fine doppleganger bodies" would have come in handy in our trying to not be eaten by Cave bears and Sabre Toothed Tigers. I'd have thought that a predisposition for this ability would have seen it evolve as quite a predominant feature of our species, along with vision and hearing.
I posted this in Science Section. Relevant here too. New study on NDE's was released in Oct.:
"One case was validated and timed using auditory stimuli during cardiac arrest. Dr Parnia concluded: "This is significant, since it has often been assumed that experiences in relation to death are likely hallucinations or illusions, occurring either before the heart stops or after the heart has been successfully restarted, but not an experience corresponding with 'real' events when the heart isn't beating. In this case, consciousness and awareness appeared to occur during a three-minute period when there was no heartbeat. This is paradoxical, since the brain typically ceases functioning within 20-30 seconds of the heart stopping and doesn't resume again until the heart has been restarted. Furthermore, the detailed recollections of visual awareness in this case were consistent with verified events."
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...1007092108.htm
"This supports other recent studies that have indicated consciousness may be present despite clinically undetectable consciousness."
http://www.resuscitationjournal.com/...739-4/abstract
From the PDF file:
"a 57 year old man described the perception of observing events from
the top corner of the room and continued to experience a sensation
of looking down from above. He accurately described people,
sounds, and activities from his resuscitation (Table 2 provides
quotes from this interview). His medical records corroborated his
accounts and specifically supported his descriptions and the use of
an automated external defibrillator (AED)."
"Thus, within a model that assumes a causative relationship
between cortical activity and consciousness the occurrence
of mental processes and the ability to accurately describe events
during CA as occurred in our verified case of VA when cerebral
function is ordinarily absent or at best severely impaired is
perplexing. This is particularly the case as reductions in CBF
typically lead to delirium followed by coma, rather than an accurate
and lucid mental state."
Too bad no one could see the little pictures they placed on the shelves in the ER. Their bad luck was that 78% of the cardiac arrests they studied took place in rooms without pictures on the shelves. The one really good case they got was, of course, in a room with no picture on the shelf.
"One case was validated and timed using auditory stimuli during cardiac arrest. Dr Parnia concluded: "This is significant, since it has often been assumed that experiences in relation to death are likely hallucinations or illusions, occurring either before the heart stops or after the heart has been successfully restarted, but not an experience corresponding with 'real' events when the heart isn't beating. In this case, consciousness and awareness appeared to occur during a three-minute period when there was no heartbeat. This is paradoxical, since the brain typically ceases functioning within 20-30 seconds of the heart stopping and doesn't resume again until the heart has been restarted. Furthermore, the detailed recollections of visual awareness in this case were consistent with verified events."
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...1007092108.htm
"This supports other recent studies that have indicated consciousness may be present despite clinically undetectable consciousness."
http://www.resuscitationjournal.com/...739-4/abstract
From the PDF file:
"a 57 year old man described the perception of observing events from
the top corner of the room and continued to experience a sensation
of looking down from above. He accurately described people,
sounds, and activities from his resuscitation (Table 2 provides
quotes from this interview). His medical records corroborated his
accounts and specifically supported his descriptions and the use of
an automated external defibrillator (AED)."
"Thus, within a model that assumes a causative relationship
between cortical activity and consciousness the occurrence
of mental processes and the ability to accurately describe events
during CA as occurred in our verified case of VA when cerebral
function is ordinarily absent or at best severely impaired is
perplexing. This is particularly the case as reductions in CBF
typically lead to delirium followed by coma, rather than an accurate
and lucid mental state."
Too bad no one could see the little pictures they placed on the shelves in the ER. Their bad luck was that 78% of the cardiac arrests they studied took place in rooms without pictures on the shelves. The one really good case they got was, of course, in a room with no picture on the shelf.
Pixel42
Schrödinger's cat
As was stated in post #60. Also discussed in previous threads.
While the study was referred to in post 60, no one actually commented on any findings that were in the study. There's some interesting stuff in there. I'm sure there will be followup studies. Too bad they take forever.
I don't know about other threads.
Pixel42
Schrödinger's cat
I posted the links in the thread you started about the study.
Olowkow
Philosopher
- Joined
- Oct 29, 2007
- Messages
- 8,230
Yes, such a lot of "bad luck".
This previous post may be of interest here.http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=10393543#post10393543
Does anybody care what the mostly dead experience?
It has been pointed out on all these OOB and NDE threads that pilots suffering lack of oxygen the the brain have the same experience as the nearly dead. If it is something so spiritual, why do pilots have the same experience?
It has been pointed out on all these OOB and NDE threads that pilots suffering lack of oxygen the the brain have the same experience as the nearly dead. If it is something so spiritual, why do pilots have the same experience?
Appreciate it!
Jango
Graduate Poster
My experience was nothingness, so while I've never experienced the light or warmth or the out of body experience (etc etc), I don't doubt that it happens or that it is possible.
Slowvehicle
Membership Drive , Co-Ordinator,, Russell's Antin
...leaving aside the semantic contradiction involved in "experiencing " "nothingness"...
Is that where you "heard" the silent stuff going on?
Jango
Graduate Poster
Lol what?
Slowvehicle
Membership Drive , Co-Ordinator,, Russell's Antin
Wups!
Wrong poster.
How does one "experience" the state of "nothingness"?
If it can be experienced, it is not "nothing"ness.
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Donald Sutherland, who played the character, Hawkeye Piece, in the movie version of Mash, had a near-death experience when ill with meningitis in 1979.
"Suddenly the pain, fever and acute distress seemed to evaporate. I was floating above my body, surrounded by soft blue light. I began to glide down a long tunnel, away from the bed ... but suddenly I found myself back in my body. The doctors told me later that I had actually died for a time."
--------------------------XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX-----Actor James Cromwell became internationally known from his role as Farmer Hoggett, the owner of a piglet in the hit movie Babe. At the age of five, James fell into the ocean which resulted in a near-death experience. Since then, James describes his whole life as a mystical event. After his NDE, James has recurring images in his dreams that are connected to previous incarnations. He states that he has memories of a past life in the days of King Arthur during the Middle Ages.-
"Suddenly the pain, fever and acute distress seemed to evaporate. I was floating above my body, surrounded by soft blue light. I began to glide down a long tunnel, away from the bed ... but suddenly I found myself back in my body. The doctors told me later that I had actually died for a time."
--------------------------XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX-----Actor James Cromwell became internationally known from his role as Farmer Hoggett, the owner of a piglet in the hit movie Babe. At the age of five, James fell into the ocean which resulted in a near-death experience. Since then, James describes his whole life as a mystical event. After his NDE, James has recurring images in his dreams that are connected to previous incarnations. He states that he has memories of a past life in the days of King Arthur during the Middle Ages.-
.What happened to the famous novelist Ernest Hemingway is an example of the typical brief or initial near-death experience. During World War I, Hemingway was wounded by shrapnel while fighting on the banks of the river Piave, near Fossalta, Italy. He convalesced in Milan. In a letter from there to his family, he made this cryptic statement: "Dying is a very simple thing. I've looked at death and really I know." Years later, Hemingway explained to a friend what had occurred on that fateful night in 1918 (pages 23-24, paperback version, "BEYOND THE LIGHT":
"A big Austrian trench mortar bomb, of the type that used to be called ash cans, exploded in the darkness. I died then. I felt my soul or something coming right out of my body, like you'd pull a silk handkerchief out of a pocket by one corner. It flew around and then came back and went in again and I wasn't dead anymore."
Hemingway remained deeply affected by this out-of-body/initial near-death experience throughout his life, and was never again as "hard-boiled" as he once had been. "A FAREWELL TO ARMS" contains a passage where the character Frederic Henry undergoes the same confrontation with death that Hemingway did:
"I ate the end of my piece of cheese and took a swallow of wine. Through the other noise I heard a cough, then came the chuh-chuh-chuh-chuh - then there was a flash, as when a blast-furnace door is swung open, and a roar that started white and went red and on and on in a rushing wind. I tried to breathe but my breath would not come and I felt myself rush bodily out of myself and out and out and out and all the time bodily in the wind. I went out swiftly, all of myself, and I knew I was dead and that it had all been a mistake to think you just died. Then I floated, and instead of going on I felt myself slide back. I breathed and I was back."
"A big Austrian trench mortar bomb, of the type that used to be called ash cans, exploded in the darkness. I died then. I felt my soul or something coming right out of my body, like you'd pull a silk handkerchief out of a pocket by one corner. It flew around and then came back and went in again and I wasn't dead anymore."
Hemingway remained deeply affected by this out-of-body/initial near-death experience throughout his life, and was never again as "hard-boiled" as he once had been. "A FAREWELL TO ARMS" contains a passage where the character Frederic Henry undergoes the same confrontation with death that Hemingway did:
"I ate the end of my piece of cheese and took a swallow of wine. Through the other noise I heard a cough, then came the chuh-chuh-chuh-chuh - then there was a flash, as when a blast-furnace door is swung open, and a roar that started white and went red and on and on in a rushing wind. I tried to breathe but my breath would not come and I felt myself rush bodily out of myself and out and out and out and all the time bodily in the wind. I went out swiftly, all of myself, and I knew I was dead and that it had all been a mistake to think you just died. Then I floated, and instead of going on I felt myself slide back. I breathed and I was back."