Near Death and Out of Body Experiences

zengirl said:
We have physical eyes for the physical dimension...until we have learned to understand the physical dimension well , then we will likely leave it for good....
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OK, so if physical eyes are necessary to view the physical dimension, I guess you'd agree that people who experience OBEs where they report floating above the scene and looking down at the physical operating theatre, or accident, or whatever, seeing what was going on in the physical dimension from outside their bodies, are reporting imaginary events, not real events in the physical world?

If not, please explain again why physical eyes are necessary.
 
zengirl said:
Brain chemicals don't tell you your future events that come true, spouse that you will marry, the future kids you will have :rolleyes:
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How about something a bit more objective? If you imagine you will marry and have two kids you have some control over the event and thus influence it in a self fulfilling prophecy. How about you get the lottery numbers for a future date, something you have no influence over and cannot make an educated guess at.
 
dlorde said:
OK, so if physical eyes are necessary to view the physical dimension, I guess you'd agree that people who experience OBEs where they report floating above the scene and looking down at the physical operating theatre, or accident, or whatever, seeing what was going on in the physical dimension from outside their bodies, are reporting imaginary events, not real events in the physical world?

If not, please explain again why physical eyes are necessary.
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Do people blind from birth have OBEs in which they see the physical world in this way?
 
jaydeehess said:
Do people blind from birth have OBEs in which they see the physical world in this way?
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In nde's and obe's a person has no physical or mental disabilities they have on Earth.....blind ppl see, disabled ppl have functioning bodies....read books on these experiences...they are very interesting...
 
dlorde said:
OK, so if physical eyes are necessary to view the physical dimension, I guess you'd agree that people who experience OBEs where they report floating above the scene and looking down at the physical operating theatre, or accident, or whatever, seeing what was going on in the physical dimension from outside their bodies, are reporting imaginary events, not real events in the physical world?

If not, please explain again why physical eyes are necessary.
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------We seem to have a far greater consciousness that is not limited to the physical dimension....there do seem to be 'spiritual eyes and ears'. Some have given details of events and procedures that doctors and others said they could not have known about...physical eyes for the physical life, spiritual 'eyes' for the spiritual or non-physical dimension....
 
zengirl said:
------We seem to have a far greater consciousness that is not limited to the physical dimension....there do seem to be 'spiritual eyes and ears'. Some have given details of events and procedures that doctors and others said they could not have known about...physical eyes for the physical life, spiritual 'eyes' for the spiritual or non-physical dimension....
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Can those blind since birth use spiritual eyes? What would they see and how would they know they were seeing something?
 
zengirl said:
You don't measure it...you experience it...
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I experience dreams, and I have little trouble differentiating them from reality. For these near-death and out-of-body experiences to be real and not just some dream you (singular) cannot easily differentiate from reality, there needs to be something substantive you can use to convince others.

Got something like that? You mentioned foretelling the future. Anything concrete or just non-specific and/or self-fulfilling prophesy?
 
zengirl said:
------We seem to have a far greater consciousness that is not limited to the physical dimension....there do seem to be 'spiritual eyes and ears'. Some have given details of events and procedures that doctors and others said they could not have known about...physical eyes for the physical life, spiritual 'eyes' for the spiritual or non-physical dimension....
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One day, Zengirl, you'll grow to realise that we don't take the blind bit of notice of unsupported assertion. Your whole approach here is full of "they say......" You won't be taken even the tiniest bit seriously until you start to deal with specifics. Even the stupidest active thread on the forum, in which a giant tail-hopping dragonfly is postulated to exist, has the comparative merit of linking to (nonsensical) sources for its nonsensical claims. You don't even rise to that level, so why you think anyone would give your theories the time of day is beyond me.

If you are posting here just to garner snide comments so as to achieve brownie points elsewhere on the internet, the only reason I can come up with for your posting style, then you are doing a fine job. If you have any intention of trying to persuade us to your viewpoint, how do you think that is going?
 
zengirl said:
People are more interested in celebrities than regular people....and I have nde experiences of doctors and others I will show. Children have had nde with details of their future and spouse which came true. ---------- Monroe (from the Monroe Institute) is a scientist with methodology his staff go through in the monitoring and instructions of those learning to travel out of body. They keep files on those volunteers' experiences and information they gathered in their experiences. ------ Ms. Taylor knew it happened during surgery which is common. --------And saying something happened is evidence and used as evidence in courts of law.....
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Yes but the rules of evidences in a court of law are vastly different than the rules of evidence in science. That being said eyewitness testimony is rarely enough to convict in a court and never enough to prove a theory in science. If something has happened there will be more evidence then just testimony.

How do you deal with the differences between cultures in NDEs?

Such accounts have led many people to believe that consciousness must be independent of the brain. Unfortunately, these experiences vary across cultures, and no single feature is common to them all. One would think that if a nonphysical domain were truly being explored, some universal characteristics would stand out. Hindus and Christians would not substantially disagree—and one certainly wouldn’t expect the after-death state of South Indians to diverge from that of North Indians, as has been reported.⁠ It should also trouble NDE enthusiasts that only 10−20 percent of people who approach clinica
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http://www.samharris.org/blog/item/science-on-the-brink-of-death
 
zengirl said:
You don't measure it...you experience it...
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There would still be a form of measurement.
You experience it and than can write about it, means that there is a physical 'connection'.
If you actually had had an experience with conclusion as per yours invalidly attached, I would imagine you'd want to know about any physical connection.

But you appear to be interested in belief and narrative only. You can not truly share your experience with those who truly want to know about such stuff.

Your experience is locked up in a box, buried under a mountain of narrative, it can't go anywhere.
 
jaydeehess said:
Do people blind from birth have OBEs in which they see the physical world in this way?
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I have no idea, you'd have to ask them. It's possible they have some visual imagery as, if the visual cortex is functional, it can be recruited to make visualisations based on aural and tactile sensory input - another example of the much-abused 'neuroplasticity'.
 
zengirl said:
------We seem to have a far greater consciousness that is not limited to the physical dimension....
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What seems to be that case and what really is the case may be entirely different. Relying on intuition is a poor guide to reality, and uncritical acceptance of what your senses tell you allows illusionists to entertain and fakers like Geller to make a very comfortable living fleecing the gullible.

there do seem to be 'spiritual eyes and ears'. Some have given details of events and procedures that doctors and others said they could not have known about...physical eyes for the physical life, spiritual 'eyes' for the spiritual or non-physical dimension....
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You can't have it both ways - if you need physical eyes to see the physical world, then OBE's reporting seeing the physical world from outside the body can't be real. But if your 'spiritual eyes and ears' can see the physical world, it raises the question why we need physical eyes at all.

So what's the explanation?
 
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