Continuation Part 11: Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito

[Kauffer]

The Italian courts do recognize the rights of suspects before being declared indagato/indagata. The code prevents from using their declarations too.
There is also no problem with the standards of voluntary waiver.
However there is a more general principle working in the Italian system, that differs from the common law systems in general: provisions and adjustments are normally applied subsequently, not preemptively. The final assessment matters, not the initial one. Whether the suspect was a suspect or an informant, the decision on this will be taken subsequently and not in real time. If a statement is admissible or not is decided subsequently. All evidence in general is always not subjected to preliminary assessment. It is the late assessment that matters, not the real time procedure steps.

It's not enough making adjustments later even if they are properly made. That's the trial phase. The abuse of procedural rights in this "preliminary assessment" supports unjustified and lengthy pretrial detentions - imprisonment without trial.

 

[Numbers]

This reflects a very different philosophy from English common law. Essentially burglary is illegal entry (without permission) with intent to commit a criminal act (or having done so). Burglary with intent to commit rape is a specific crime. The penalty is severe. You do not have to have stolen anything to have committed burglary. The penalty is up to 14 years in prison. Under English common-law Guede would have likely been guilty of a serious offence with a possible prison sentence.

In contrast as I understand civil law systems such as Italy has, have a concept of honour crimes which Callunia is one. Common law does not have a similar concept. Slander and libel do not really deal with honour, but material loss secondary to libel / slander. Common law systems are very material.

As an aside, the philosophy behind common law is partly that the King delivers devine justice on earth. Bit the authority of the King is only valid whilst in line with the concept of justice. This is why common law systems are interested in delivering justice. Even mediaevalEnglish Kings were limited by what was regarded as just. Thus torture had to be authorised by the court of star chamber. Mediaeval English Kings were more restricted in carrying out torture than apparently twenty first century US presidents are.

Yes. Probably US Presidents have more unchecked power in foreign affairs than English kings did. The torture was applied through the CIA, which does not operate domestically. Note that the US government sought assistance from allies in getting foreign sites to carry out the torture (which ECHR might consider "only" inhuman and degrading treatment; ECHR seems to require medically-detectable damage to classify a treatment as torture).

 

[Numbers]

That's a different procedure albeit you have misrepresented the facts. The separate character of the investigative and trial phases of a case, as far as I can see. The trial judge hears aknew and Mr Sollecito elected not to testify. Salduz is a relatively new judgement. I doubt one magistrate in ten would have the faintest idea what I was talking about if I asked them to explain it to me. I don't think you'd ever heard of it until Numbers started researching the case law and we started talking about it.

Is there any evidence that the judges in the Amanda Knox - Raffaele Sollecito trials had heard of the ECHR? The domestic judges at each level are supposed to apply its principles and case-law, and not delegate consideration to their country's high court.

 

[JREF2010]

One of my thoughts is that maybe they realize the bugaboo this whole thing is and just want to make it go away. That is also kind of my hope.

I would have to assume the opposite.

Its the "twisted Italy legal system" that wants to wear out those, who oppose and speak out against this, political driven and derailed train, court system.

More likely the goal is for the attention to fade away is more a wish of the System that protects each other like a Nazi Gestapo of WW2, or some other corrupt power trip group.
Migninni, Matteni, Stefonani, and Naopleoni, and Edgardo Giobbi- the Senior Witch Hunters... who bonded when the outsiders came to make fools of them and print globally how they didn't test a semen stain on the pillow of a rape, murder victim, how they couldn't count circles on a tennis shoe, how they lied about budgets for recording the interrogation and hardrives "accidentally?" destroyed over and over and over.... and if you call them liars or fools, or that they slapped you, the Judge has the Prosecutor investigate to find you guilty of that too, maybe charge you with 6yrs in prison for testifying in your own defense.

They are the "home team" wanting everyone else to leave, they hope everyone wears out and gives up so they can go back to their dishonest-police jobs.

 

[Numbers]

It's not enough making adjustments later even if they are properly made. That's the trial phase. The abuse of procedural rights in this "preliminary assessment" supports unjustified and lengthy pretrial detentions - imprisonment without trial.

There are two Italian laws that were broken, IMO, by the courts, police, and prosecution in the course of coercing Amanda Knox to make "calunnia" statements and then using the statements at trial and convicting her:

CCP 188:
1. Methods or techniques which may influence the freedom of self-determination or alter the capacity to recall and evaluate facts shall not be used, not even with the consent of the person concerned.


CCP 191:
1. Evidence gathered in violation of the prohibitions set by law shall not be used.
2. The exclusion of evidence may be declared also ex officio at any stage and instance of the proceedings.

 

[Diocletus]

The Italian courts do recognize the rights of suspects before being declared indagato/indagata. The code prevents from using their declarations too.
There is also no problem with the standards of voluntary waiver.
However there is a more general principle working in the Italian system, that differs from the common law systems in general: provisions and adjustments are normally applied subsequently, not preemptively. The final assessment matters, not the initial one. Whether the suspect was a suspect or an informant, the decision on this will be taken subsequently and not in real time. If a statement is admissible or not is decided subsequently. All evidence in general is always not subjected to preliminary assessment. It is the late assessment that matters, not the real time procedure steps.

Lol. So you think they know the right law, they just wait until the end of the 10-year trial to apply it? What a ridiculous statement.

These judges have no clue about echr requirements. Even the Italian Supreme Court is utterly without a clue.

 

[Diocletus]

There are two Italian laws that were broken, IMO, by the courts, police, and prosecution in the course of coercing Amanda Knox to make "calunnia" statements and then using the statements at trial and convicting her:

CCP 188:
1. Methods or techniques which may influence the freedom of self-determination or alter the capacity to recall and evaluate facts shall not be used, not even with the consent of the person concerned.


CCP 191:
1. Evidence gathered in violation of the prohibitions set by law shall not be used.
2. The exclusion of evidence may be declared also ex officio at any stage and instance of the proceedings.

Italian laws are almost totally meaningless because there is no one to apply them.

 

[Desert Fox]

I would have to assume the opposite.

Its the "twisted Italy legal system" that wants to wear out those, who oppose and speak out against this, political driven and derailed train, court system.

More likely the goal is for the attention to fade away is more a wish of the System that protects each other like a Nazi Gestapo of WW2, or some other corrupt power trip group.
Migninni, Matteni, Stefonani, and Naopleoni, and Edgardo Giobbi- the Senior Witch Hunters... who bonded when the outsiders came to make fools of them and print globally how they didn't test a semen stain on the pillow of a rape, murder victim, how they couldn't count circles on a tennis shoe, how they lied about budgets for recording the interrogation and hardrives "accidentally?" destroyed over and over and over.... and if you call them liars or fools, or that they slapped you, the Judge has the Prosecutor investigate to find you guilty of that too, maybe charge you with 6yrs in prison for testifying in your own defense.

They are the "home team" wanting everyone else to leave, they hope everyone wears out and gives up so they can go back to their dishonest-police jobs.

I wish Raff was somewhere other than Italy to be honest. . . . .Be glad to have him in the United States.

 

[Samson]

Here is a slightly edited google translation of this news, Alberto Stasi was twice acquitted then 7 years on sentenced to 16 years and pay 1m euro compensation to victim's family.

http://milano.corriere.it/notizie/c...si-973dbae4-85b6-11e4-a2bf-0fba46a30b83.shtml

There appear to be common elements to Kercher murder, though no alternative suspect.

QUOTE:

Alberto Stasi was sentenced to 16 years imprisonment by the Assize Court of Appeal of Milan in the appeal bis for the murder of his girlfriend Chiara Poggi, occurred in 2007 in Garlasco (Pavia). The young accountant, who had been acquitted in first and second grade from the same charge before the Supreme Court set aside the judgment of appeal, was also sentenced perpetual interdiction from public office and to compensation for the victim's family: 1 million euro. His lawyers announced, however, a new appeal to the Supreme Court.

Parents moved to clear
The parents of Chiara Poggi visibly moved embraced the civil party lawyer, the lawyer Gian Luigi Tizzoni. The father Giuseppe Poggi had tears in his eyes. The mother Rita Poggi has embraced also the cousin of Chiara, Paolo Reale. Alberto Stasi was not recognized the aggravating circumstance of cruelty that had been challenged by the deputy who had asked Pg 30 years. From here is worth less than the request of the prosecution, then reduced by one third for summary judgment.


shadow carouselGarlasco, Stasi sentenced: "I am shocked." The mother: "I will say to Clare who won"
Garlasco, Stasi sentenced: Garlasco, Stasi sentenced: "I am shocked." The mother: "I will say to Clare who won 'PrevNext
The parents of Chiara
"We are satisfied, we never gave up." They are the words of Rita Poggi, immediately after the reading of the device with which the Assize Court of Appeal of Milan. The woman, to Sky, added: "I will say to my daughter:" you did it. '"Excited Giuseppe Poggi, dad: "Chiara has now become a daughter for our lawyers, whom I thank. I will not say more or I get emotional. ""We expected the truth to Clare and today we had an answer," said the lawyer Gian Luigi Tizzoni, assisting the family with his colleague Francesco Poggi Companion. "We are not interested worth - said the lawyer - or the financial compensation. We are interested in the truth, and this Court has given us the truth. "

Stasi 'shocked'
Alberto Stasi, however, is "shocked" after the sentence that was imposed, came after two acquittals in the classroom and an annulment to the Supreme Court with the aim of integrating the preliminary hearing. According to the lawyer Fabio Giarda, "is a sentence that does not make sense based on the principle" little evidence, little worth. '"The former boyfriend of Chiara Poggi has stagnated, impassive when the judges read the sentence, showing no visible reaction and simply leave the courtroom quietly escorted by his lawyers.

Before the judgment
"Do not try at all costs a culprit condemning an innocent man," he said Stasi in court pending the ruling. "In the past seven years - added Stasi - you forget that the death of Clare was a tragedy for me. It was my girlfriend. For years, I have referred to the pressure. It happened to me and not to others. Why? I appeal to your conscience: I hope I assolviate. "

The process of the case
At exactly five years (it was December 17, 2009) from the first instance verdict that had sent acquitted Alberto Stasi, now the Assize Court of Appeal of Milan rewrites the story of the murder of Garlasco. Against Stasi prosecutors demanded 30 years in prison contesting the aggravated murder with cruelty, aggravating rejected by the Assize Court of Appeal. For the defense, instead there was no evidence to judge responsibly.

shadow carouselDelitto Garlasco, seven years of processes and expertise in search of the truth: the photo story
Crime of Garlasco, seven years of processes and expertise in search of the truth: the photo story


New surveys and errors old
The Court, before which last April opened the so-called appeal process bis, in addition to the seizure of the bike black women in the availability of the Stasi, had ordered other tests: genetic ones on the bulb of a hair found in the palm of your hand left of Clare and her nails (which did not give the results that they constitute a test case) and repeat testing of the so-called experimental walk Alberto extending it to the two steps and the area in front of the staircase where that summer seven years ago former Bocconi student said that he found the lifeless body of the young woman. Examination, this, with which it has been established that it is not impossible that Stasi is soiled shoes and has not even left a trace of his blood on the mat Golf, the car with which immediately after the discovery of the corpse, rushed by police the small town of Lomellina to raise the alarm. In addition to the expertise of the experts appointed by the Court, the proceedings of the trial are some of the results of the supplements instructors with whom in recent months pg Barbaini has filled a number of gaps, omissions and errors of the investigation and the results of investigations carried out by the legal Poggi on black bicycle.

Fingerprints and scratches
And omissions and errors are also unpublished one of the key points of the indictment of the deputy attorney general about three weeks ago. First, it has enhanced the fingerprints of four fingers soaked in blood on the left by the pajama Chiara (left shoulder), but then deleted by the person who removed the corpse. Footprints visible cleanly in a photo shown in the classroom and for pg prove that Alberto, after killing, washed his hands because of the presence of his fingerprints on the soap dispenser in the bathroom. Other item valued are two scratches on the forearm of Stasi compatible with a fight and noticed two police station Garlasco immediacy of the crime. Scratch that, as they themselves have told the Court, have not been photographed. Has not even been put on the record as if they were procured. Finally relevant pg are the pictures of the corpse: refute what he had said and that is that the young Chiara's face was pale.
shadow carouselLa bicycle Stasi
The bicycle of Stasi
The bicycle StasiPrevNext
The staging of the discovery These and other evidence considered as a whole led the pg to argue that that of the discovery of the corpse was "a sham" and that the former student Bocconi would alter "the paintings of evidence, limiting them, turning them 'up to' sidetrack investigations, "as shown by the discovery by the prosecution of other bikes, at least two, owned by the Stasi, and it has always been silent or a pair of Geox the same number of prints of the soles to bullets found at the crime scene and never delivered.

the defense
And if the lawyers of the plaintiff, in addition to the replacement of bike pedals Bordeaux, where he was tracked down the DNA of the victim, showed that against Alberto there are "11 clues serious, precise and consistent," the defense has repeated what for years saying goes, there is no evidence. For Angelo Giarda, Alberto was acquitted because it never showed anything that might lead to deem the young manager, on the contrary came to light elements that clear him. Regarding the soles of shoes, for example, the former student of Bocconi could not step on the spots of blood on the floor, too practically dry, because of '' implicit avoidance. "Also scratches, according to surveys defensive, would never have existed and the thesis of the replacement of the pedals does not hold.

The murder and the alibi of Stasi
Hit a few steps from the front door, dragged and thrown down the stairs leading to the cellar. 13 August 2007 on the floor of the house on Via Pascoli in Garlasco (Pavia) remain traces of bloody hands of the victim, Chiara Poggi, hit several times with an unknown weapon, possibly a hammer. Fierce aggression: the murderess sneaking up to screw the skull. Nothing lacking in the home to justify an attempted theft and there are no traces of strangers. The 26 year old wearing a summer pajamas, she is likely to open the door to those who take away the vita.Nessuna shadow in his life, a few friends and the love story of four years with Alberto Stasi. E 'him, then 24-year old graduate student at Bocconi, who discovers the body of his girlfriend and him pointing investigations. A not convince is the absence of shoe prints on the floor of the house Poggi, some details on the discovery of the victim, the `freddezza' the call to 118.
Alberto has always supported the work of thesis while Chiara died. An alibi deleted from illicit access made by the police at his computer. Only an expert reconstructs his work that morning: Alberto starts working on his file by 9:36, Chiara off the house alarm at 9.12; 23 minutes into the second allegation and experts Alberto could kill his girlfriend.

 

[Dan O.]

Not sure I'm following your technical argument, about the thread count preventing an analysis. Doesn't mean it's wrong, just saying I don't follow it.

The cloth is too rough of a surface to pull a readable print. It is only in recent years that tachneques have been developed to separate the cloth texture from the print texture.

The fingerprint (or palm print) was in blood I thought?

It is a partial palm print in blood on woven fabric.

At any rate, the palm print being identified by the immigration authorities is the story I believe Dempsey and Burleigh reported in their books.

But suppose they're wrong and you're correct, and that is not how Rudy was identified. Then how was Rudy identified in your reckoning?

It could have been one of Rudy's friends turning the bum in. The police were clearly protecting the identity of the Skype call recipient early on by releasing the false claim that it was someone that worked with the police and traced the IP address of his computer.

Or perhaps the wiretapping net actually paid off. As we can see, they were tapping phones at least 2 degrees from Meredith. The first degree was the immediate acquaintances like the roommates and the boys downstairs. The second degree would be anyone that had telephone contact with the first set (such as Patrick and Frederico) which would encompass perhaps 100 or more. Giacomo Benedetti could even be 3 degrees from Meredith if he told someone in the 2 degree group that he talked to Rudy and that conversation was recorded.

There are other alternatives but they involve a degree of competence on the part of the police that hasn't been demonstrated.

 

[Dan O.]

My only problem is that the Italian forensics people cannot tell shoe prints apart, do we trust them on palm prints?

If someone wants to produce the photo of the palm print and Rudy's reference print, I'll give an honest opinion as to whether they match. was this presented in Rudy's trial and did Rudy or his lawyer counter the claim? Or, did Mignini deem it not relevant to the role the minor character played in this saga?

 

[Dan O.]

Ok, fine. Not exactly best in show. But Rudy was identified at some point, by some means. If not by the palm print at the immigration office, then how was Rudy identified as a suspect in the case?

Was Rudy identified before or after his friend approached the police to say he thought Rudy might be involved, after which they did a skype? Was Rudy's name published before his friend came forward, or did his friend come forward first?

November 16 Rudy Guede is identified "with absolute certainty" according to the Micheli Report.
November 19 16:57 Skype chat with Giacomo Benedetti.
~18:30 Rudy's skype call recorded at Perugia police HQ.
November 19 20:38 GMT BBC "Fourth Meredith suspect is named".

 

[Dan O.]

Turning off a phone is not evidence of guilt, however:
1) it is evidence of lying, since Sollecito declared his phone was on.

What evidence do you have that his phone was off? We know only that it failed to receive one text in the middle of the night. This can happen if the phone is simply in a weak reception spot.


This is again evidence of your viewing everything through guilt colored glassed.

 

[Bill Williams]

Turning off a phone is not evidence of guilt, however:
1) it is evidence of lying, since Sollecito declared his phone was on.
2) it is to be noted if it is an unusual action. Knox used to never do it.
3) it was a topic of inconsistency, since Knox presented unconvincing explanations for that.

It can be suspicious if coupled to other evidence. However it is obviously not a point itself.

PM Mignini said it was a sign of premeditation. All the courts disagreed with him.

 

[RWVBWL]

4 days later...

Greetings everyone,
As we read + discuss of when the police became interested in Rudy Guede,
well I'm reminded of this, which I've posted this before.

A woman whose moniker was Oceania8 or Oceania88 posted abit after Meredith was raped and murdered,
she was from New Zealand and had a son who was going to school in Perugia and who knew Rudy Guede then.

From Skeptical Bystander at PMF:
You should ask Oceania 8, who early on began talking up the idea of Rudy's "accomplice", the guy who "got away" and who Rudy is "afraid of". As far as I can tell, this story is loosely based on O8's son's relationship with Rudy and other townies. O's son was a student in Perugia. According to O, he and his housemates were picked up for questioning by police four days after Meredith Kercher's murder. I don't think anyone except for O8, Chris Mellas and vested interests in the Railroad Job From Hell theory really give this idea much credence.

The only thing I find interesting is that O8 is tacitly admitting that the Lone Wolf theory has never had prima facie plausibility. It was necessary to find an accomplice. So much the better if he has vanished since the crime.

* * *


Rudy mentions the New Zealand guys in his March 26, 2008 Interrogation.

Here's his testimony to PM Mignini and friends:
Guede - Owen
Pros. Mignini - This is the surname
Guede - Yes because he was, he was part of a group of boys that had come
through a football school there were those who were from the United
States and those who were from New Zealand and I got to know
them and I also spent time at their house however the address I
wouldn’t be able to tell you
Pros. Mignini - So that evening there in the house below in the floor below was he also there?
Guede - No, no so as we went to celebrate this guy in the center at the end
of the evening while each was returning [home] I met the two guys
that live below and then other friends of theirs


Link to the March 26, 2008 Interrogation, on page 10:
http://murderofmeredithkercher.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/RG-Transcript.pdf


Question for you folks:
Why did the cops interrogate the New Zealand boyz 4 days after Meredith was raped and murdered?

Hmmm,
that would have been what, sometime on Monday?
How did these dudes come up on the cops radar, so to say?
Was Meredith in the New Zealand boyz circle of friends?
Odd that I'd never heard of that, nor the NZ boyz comin' over + smokin' out with the downstairs boyz either. Can anyone check Meredith's phone records and see if she had called Owen or if she called any of the Kiwi's?

I'm startin' to wonder,
were the cops already trying to track down Rudy Guede 4 days after Meredith was raped and murdered?

 

[carbonjam72]

The cloth is too rough of a surface to pull a readable print. It is only in recent years that tachneques have been developed to separate the cloth texture from the print texture.





It is a partial palm print in blood on woven fabric.





It could have been one of Rudy's friends turning the bum in. The police were clearly protecting the identity of the Skype call recipient early on by releasing the false claim that it was someone that worked with the police and traced the IP address of his computer.

Or perhaps the wiretapping net actually paid off. As we can see, they were tapping phones at least 2 degrees from Meredith. The first degree was the immediate acquaintances like the roommates and the boys downstairs. The second degree would be anyone that had telephone contact with the first set (such as Patrick and Frederico) which would encompass perhaps 100 or more. Giacomo Benedetti could even be 3 degrees from Meredith if he told someone in the 2 degree group that he talked to Rudy and that conversation was recorded.

There are other alternatives but they involve a degree of competence on the part of the police that hasn't been demonstrated.

November 16 Rudy Guede is identified "with absolute certainty" according to the Micheli Report.November 19 16:57 Skype chat with Giacomo Benedetti.
~18:30 Rudy's skype call recorded at Perugia police HQ.
November 19 20:38 GMT BBC "Fourth Meredith suspect is named".

From article above linked: Nov 20, 2007:

Giacinto Profazio, the head of Perugia’s Flying Squad, said police planned to arrest Guede at the Italian border.
However, at 7.16am, he was stopped by a conductor on a suburban train between Wiesbaden and Mainz.
He will be brought back to Italy in the next 48 hours for questioning.
His house in Perugia was searched for evidence.
Police launched the hunt for him after allegedly finding two of his fingerprints at the scene of the crime, one allegedly in blood on a cushion.Five days before Miss Kercher was killed, Guede was discovered by police inside a children’s nursery in Milan, having slept there overnight. He had with him an 11-inch kitchen knife.
He told police he needed to “protect himself from thieves”, and was also carrying a white laptop computer. He was freed, but stopped by police a second time shortly afterwards for allegedly possessing a small quantity of drugs.
Last week, an eight-inch kitchen knife from Sollecito’s house was allegedly discovered to have traces of Knox’s DNA near the handle, and traces of Miss Kercher’s DNA near the tip.
The knife had been bleached clean.
Guede is said to have lived in Perugia since he was five years old.
In recent years, he was adopted by an Italian family. The father, Paolo Caporali, 62, told the Italian national newspaper La Repubblica: “It is pointless to hide the fact that for me, Rudy was a disappointment. I hoped to help him build a future, I thought I had given him an opportunity. But as the months passed I understood I was mistaken, that my hopes were all met with delusion.
“He said he was at school, but he skipped class. He preferred to spend the day in front of the television or with video games. He had little wish to study, and even less to work.”

From this article you posted, it still seems that Rudy was identified by "two of his fingerprints" at the crime scene.

The tracing of Rudy's computer IP address, wouldn't explain how the police came into contact with Rudy, unless his friend ratted him out as you say - but that's not the story this article presents - and the time line as to when Rudy's name surfaced in the press and how, still seems fuzzy.

The only facts I've seen reported in articles or books so far, is that Rudy was ID'd from prints of some kind at the crime scene.

I'm open to other explanations, but I don't think I've seen any questioning of the standard answer of "Rudy's prints at the crime scene, matched to immigration".

Obviously access to the original case file would provide all the answers to everything. Imagine getting a look at Stef's original DNA files for example, or the human DNA profiles from downstairs?

Seems like we must speculate in the dark, and curse the crooked bastards for their obvious remorseless amoral criminality. F' 'em all.

 

[carbonjam72]

Greetings everyone,
As we read + discuss of when the police became interested in Rudy Guede,
well I'm reminded of this, which I've posted this before.

A woman whose moniker was Oceania8 or Oceania88 posted abit after Meredith was raped and murdered,
she was from New Zealand and had a son who was going to school in Perugia and who knew Rudy Guede then.

From Skeptical Bystander at PMF:
You should ask Oceania 8, who early on began talking up the idea of Rudy's "accomplice", the guy who "got away" and who Rudy is "afraid of". As far as I can tell, this story is loosely based on O8's son's relationship with Rudy and other townies. O's son was a student in Perugia. According to O, he and his housemates were picked up for questioning by police four days after Meredith Kercher's murder. I don't think anyone except for O8, Chris Mellas and vested interests in the Railroad Job From Hell theory really give this idea much credence.

The only thing I find interesting is that O8 is tacitly admitting that the Lone Wolf theory has never had prima facie plausibility. It was necessary to find an accomplice. So much the better if he has vanished since the crime.

* * *


Rudy mentions the New Zealand guys in his March 26, 2008 Interrogation.

Here's his testimony to PM Mignini and friends:
Guede - Owen
Pros. Mignini - This is the surname
Guede - Yes because he was, he was part of a group of boys that had come
through a football school there were those who were from the United
States and those who were from New Zealand and I got to know
them and I also spent time at their house however the address I
wouldn’t be able to tell you
Pros. Mignini - So that evening there in the house below in the floor below was he also there?
Guede - No, no so as we went to celebrate this guy in the center at the end
of the evening while each was returning [home] I met the two guys
that live below and then other friends of theirs


Link to the March 26, 2008 Interrogation, on page 10:
http://murderofmeredithkercher.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/RG-Transcript.pdf


Question for you folks:
Why did the cops interrogate the New Zealand boyz 4 days after Meredith was raped and murdered?

Hmmm,
that would have been what, sometime on Monday?
How did these dudes come up on the cops radar, so to say?
Was Meredith in the New Zealand boyz circle of friends?
Odd that I'd never heard of that, nor the NZ boyz comin' over + smokin' out with the downstairs boyz either. Can anyone check Meredith's phone records and see if she had called Owen or if she called any of the Kiwi's?

I'm startin' to wonder,
were the cops already trying to track down Rudy Guede 4 days after Meredith was raped and murdered?

Another fascinating find, and more great questions.

Who is Oceania 9? I thought "skeptical bystander" was Dr Lila Schneps, guilter mathematician extraordinaire - and that her daughter was dating a friend of Rudy's. And that's why Schneps has been hell bent on lessening Guede's guilt, i.e. protecting her daughter by association.

But why were these friends of Rudy interviewed 4 days after the crime? What led the police to them?

 

[carbonjam72]

Here is a slightly edited google translation of this news, Alberto Stasi was twice acquitted then 7 years on sentenced to 16 years and pay 1m euro compensation to victim's family.

http://milano.corriere.it/notizie/c...si-973dbae4-85b6-11e4-a2bf-0fba46a30b83.shtml

There appear to be common elements to Kercher murder, though no alternative suspect.

QUOTE:

Alberto Stasi was sentenced to 16 years imprisonment by the Assize Court of Appeal of Milan in the appeal bis for the murder of his girlfriend Chiara Poggi, occurred in 2007 in Garlasco (Pavia). The young accountant, who had been acquitted in first and second grade from the same charge before the Supreme Court set aside the judgment of appeal, was also sentenced perpetual interdiction from public office and to compensation for the victim's family: 1 million euro. His lawyers announced, however, a new appeal to the Supreme Court.

Parents moved to clear
The parents of Chiara Poggi visibly moved embraced the civil party lawyer, the lawyer Gian Luigi Tizzoni. The father Giuseppe Poggi had tears in his eyes. The mother Rita Poggi has embraced also the cousin of Chiara, Paolo Reale. Alberto Stasi was not recognized the aggravating circumstance of cruelty that had been challenged by the deputy who had asked Pg 30 years. From here is worth less than the request of the prosecution, then reduced by one third for summary judgment.


shadow carouselGarlasco, Stasi sentenced: "I am shocked." The mother: "I will say to Clare who won"
Garlasco, Stasi sentenced: Garlasco, Stasi sentenced: "I am shocked." The mother: "I will say to Clare who won 'PrevNext
The parents of Chiara
"We are satisfied, we never gave up." They are the words of Rita Poggi, immediately after the reading of the device with which the Assize Court of Appeal of Milan. The woman, to Sky, added: "I will say to my daughter:" you did it. '"Excited Giuseppe Poggi, dad: "Chiara has now become a daughter for our lawyers, whom I thank. I will not say more or I get emotional. ""We expected the truth to Clare and today we had an answer," said the lawyer Gian Luigi Tizzoni, assisting the family with his colleague Francesco Poggi Companion. "We are not interested worth - said the lawyer - or the financial compensation. We are interested in the truth, and this Court has given us the truth. "

Stasi 'shocked'
Alberto Stasi, however, is "shocked" after the sentence that was imposed, came after two acquittals in the classroom and an annulment to the Supreme Court with the aim of integrating the preliminary hearing. According to the lawyer Fabio Giarda, "is a sentence that does not make sense based on the principle" little evidence, little worth. '"The former boyfriend of Chiara Poggi has stagnated, impassive when the judges read the sentence, showing no visible reaction and simply leave the courtroom quietly escorted by his lawyers.

Before the judgment
"Do not try at all costs a culprit condemning an innocent man," he said Stasi in court pending the ruling. "In the past seven years - added Stasi - you forget that the death of Clare was a tragedy for me. It was my girlfriend. For years, I have referred to the pressure. It happened to me and not to others. Why? I appeal to your conscience: I hope I assolviate. "

The process of the case
At exactly five years (it was December 17, 2009) from the first instance verdict that had sent acquitted Alberto Stasi, now the Assize Court of Appeal of Milan rewrites the story of the murder of Garlasco. Against Stasi prosecutors demanded 30 years in prison contesting the aggravated murder with cruelty, aggravating rejected by the Assize Court of Appeal. For the defense, instead there was no evidence to judge responsibly.

shadow carouselDelitto Garlasco, seven years of processes and expertise in search of the truth: the photo story
Crime of Garlasco, seven years of processes and expertise in search of the truth: the photo story


New surveys and errors old
The Court, before which last April opened the so-called appeal process bis, in addition to the seizure of the bike black women in the availability of the Stasi, had ordered other tests: genetic ones on the bulb of a hair found in the palm of your hand left of Clare and her nails (which did not give the results that they constitute a test case) and repeat testing of the so-called experimental walk Alberto extending it to the two steps and the area in front of the staircase where that summer seven years ago former Bocconi student said that he found the lifeless body of the young woman. Examination, this, with which it has been established that it is not impossible that Stasi is soiled shoes and has not even left a trace of his blood on the mat Golf, the car with which immediately after the discovery of the corpse, rushed by police the small town of Lomellina to raise the alarm. In addition to the expertise of the experts appointed by the Court, the proceedings of the trial are some of the results of the supplements instructors with whom in recent months pg Barbaini has filled a number of gaps, omissions and errors of the investigation and the results of investigations carried out by the legal Poggi on black bicycle.

Fingerprints and scratches
And omissions and errors are also unpublished one of the key points of the indictment of the deputy attorney general about three weeks ago. First, it has enhanced the fingerprints of four fingers soaked in blood on the left by the pajama Chiara (left shoulder), but then deleted by the person who removed the corpse. Footprints visible cleanly in a photo shown in the classroom and for pg prove that Alberto, after killing, washed his hands because of the presence of his fingerprints on the soap dispenser in the bathroom. Other item valued are two scratches on the forearm of Stasi compatible with a fight and noticed two police station Garlasco immediacy of the crime. Scratch that, as they themselves have told the Court, have not been photographed. Has not even been put on the record as if they were procured. Finally relevant pg are the pictures of the corpse: refute what he had said and that is that the young Chiara's face was pale.
shadow carouselLa bicycle Stasi
The bicycle of Stasi
The bicycle StasiPrevNext
The staging of the discovery These and other evidence considered as a whole led the pg to argue that that of the discovery of the corpse was "a sham" and that the former student Bocconi would alter "the paintings of evidence, limiting them, turning them 'up to' sidetrack investigations, "as shown by the discovery by the prosecution of other bikes, at least two, owned by the Stasi, and it has always been silent or a pair of Geox the same number of prints of the soles to bullets found at the crime scene and never delivered.

the defense
And if the lawyers of the plaintiff, in addition to the replacement of bike pedals Bordeaux, where he was tracked down the DNA of the victim, showed that against Alberto there are "11 clues serious, precise and consistent," the defense has repeated what for years saying goes, there is no evidence. For Angelo Giarda, Alberto was acquitted because it never showed anything that might lead to deem the young manager, on the contrary came to light elements that clear him. Regarding the soles of shoes, for example, the former student of Bocconi could not step on the spots of blood on the floor, too practically dry, because of '' implicit avoidance. "Also scratches, according to surveys defensive, would never have existed and the thesis of the replacement of the pedals does not hold.

The murder and the alibi of Stasi
Hit a few steps from the front door, dragged and thrown down the stairs leading to the cellar. 13 August 2007 on the floor of the house on Via Pascoli in Garlasco (Pavia) remain traces of bloody hands of the victim, Chiara Poggi, hit several times with an unknown weapon, possibly a hammer. Fierce aggression: the murderess sneaking up to screw the skull. Nothing lacking in the home to justify an attempted theft and there are no traces of strangers. The 26 year old wearing a summer pajamas, she is likely to open the door to those who take away the vita.Nessuna shadow in his life, a few friends and the love story of four years with Alberto Stasi. E 'him, then 24-year old graduate student at Bocconi, who discovers the body of his girlfriend and him pointing investigations. A not convince is the absence of shoe prints on the floor of the house Poggi, some details on the discovery of the victim, the `freddezza' the call to 118.
Alberto has always supported the work of thesis while Chiara died. An alibi deleted from illicit access made by the police at his computer. Only an expert reconstructs his work that morning: Alberto starts working on his file by 9:36, Chiara off the house alarm at 9.12; 23 minutes into the second allegation and experts Alberto could kill his girlfriend.

This case reads like another tragedy (miscarriage of justice). Wonder what Mach thinks? Probably the police and the courts can do no wrong, especially if they use their super-Clouseau powers of perception, finely honed in the service of the Surete, I can assure you...

 

[Numbers]

Italian laws are almost totally meaningless because there is no one to apply them.

No. Italian laws are extraordinarily beautiful; no Italian authority wants to disturb that beauty by lowly practical use of the law. The laws must remain unused in the museums where they can be admired untouched.

 

[anglolawyer]

No. Italian laws are extraordinarily beautiful; no Italian authority wants to disturb that beauty by lowly practical use of the law. The laws must remain unused in the museums where they can be admired untouched.

They are easily subverted by dunking in a sea of sophistry when there are asses to cover.