The Electric Comet theory

[BazBear]

So where is the "electical scar" that Valles Marineris looks like?

That would take one helluva "thunderbolt"!

 

[Reality Check]

In contrast

Evidence for Electric Comets from 67P

To illustrate yet again how abysmal argument by YouTube video can be, Haig:
Introduction
* a fantasy about the mainstream expecting a smooth icy body.
* the idiocy of comparing the double-lobed shape of 67P to blobs in an electric arc in hematite.
* rumors (from months ago!) that the detected signal "so-called" water output is not able to be explained by sublimating ices from solar heating.
* October 23 - organic molecules found.
* stupid comparison of a 67P peak to a terrestrial mesa with a peak,
* ignorance: "curious chains of pits" are actually reminiscent of the crater chains on planets and moons caused by impacts.
* the idiocy of comparing the dunes at the comet's neck with Martian sand dunes as if they were the only dunes that exist!
Any mechanism that moves dust around will create dunes.
* the usual idiotic image of "electrical discharges" between two planets that look like Earth and Mars!

Wal Thornhill starts talking
* Craters look similar to terrestrial explosion craters is not a "key" argument - Craters look similar to impact craters from experiments!
* A lie about "many" unresolved problems with the impact cratering model.
* A lie about the more than 90% of circular craters on the Moon requires the impact to be vertical. They require the impacts not to be oblique.
* The delusion the circular craters should be rare because comets are formed by accretion!
67P has many circular craters because there have been many impacts on it!
* Crater overlaps without obvious damage to "earlier crater" followed by a comment from a Professor Tommy Gold about the same feature on the Moon when viewing Lunar Orbiter images. Argument by press release/cherry picked comment?
* Planetary scientists have never solved this puzzle assertion.
* Fantasy about "neat overlapping circular craters" in EDM with an image that looks nothing like the surface of 67P!
67P has pairs of overlapping crater, not entire fields.
* Ignorance: An impact tends to create raised and sharp edged rims. It is erosion that then flattens rims.
* More EDM fantasies.
* compares a 67P crater to Victoria crater on Mars. Followed by a fantasy about arcing.
* More arcing fantasies.
* A comparison to an IO image!
* A lie about comet jets originating on the edge of a "cold area".
He cherry picks an image showing jets on the neck in shadow and ignores the fact that jets are seen all along the body of the comet.
Some else starts talking
* Scientists predicted that Tempel 1 loses about 1/3 of a meter of depth on each orbit. Deep Impact and Stardust images show a ice cliff reiterating - this is loss of material!
* Ignorance - there is no mystery about pixel saturation. If you have bright areas on a dark background then pixels can be saturated.
* fantasy about electrical arcs at these places.
Back to Wal Thronhill
* fantasy about machined surface material
But he gets near to some actual science. The neck of the comet is "downhill" so dust will fall down into it. That process could be helped along or impeded by electrostatic mechanisms as in the discovery of lofted dust on the Moon.
* a lie about all of the visual evidence discounting he dirty snowball model.
* a delusion about all of the visual evidence supporting an electric comet - none of it says that 67P is a rock!
* the delusion of recent planetary history ("Thunderbolts of the planetary gods") being witnessed by our prehistoric ancestors.

David Talbott starts talking
* a lie about not finding a trace of water for 67P.
* ignorance about gases that could not be released at the present distance from the Sun from warming - it is the amount of those gases that is surprising.
* nice description of the scientific comet model
* but then what looks like a lie about theorists not being able to account for the outgassing of CH2O, etc. by sublimation.
* a fantasy that "explicit predictions" of the electric comet exist!
* the electric comet fantasy is described.

 

[Reality Check]

Some actual science: Electric Comets III: Mass vs. Charge

From the form of the equation itself, we see that for the apparent density to be less than the real density, Qq will always be positive, meaning that the charge on the spacecraft and comet must be of the same sign, both positive or both negative. This makes intuitive sense, as the electrostatic force will be repulsive in both cases. But if the charges are of opposite signs, the apparent density will be higher than the real density since now the two objects must be attracting each other through the electrostatic force.

So: 11 December 2014 David Talbott: What do the electric comet theorists say the charges on Rosetta and the comet are - both positive, both negative or different?

 

[LSSBB]

Who said is wasn't witnessed?

ALL this happened in the age of man, all the sources are in the text below for you to check, go ahead, you should

EARTH IN UPHEAVAL PDF Emmanuel Velikovsky
http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/archivos_pdf/earth-upheaval.pdf

Cometary discharges of today are nothing compared to what the Ancients experienced.


Our solar system is stable now. Only tiny little Electric Comets show how it was ... Like Electric Comet SIDING SPRING see HERE

No "is your god dead?" is the wrong question. Why did man invent god, gods, religion ? Now you should have a clue to the answer

That is anecdotal evidence that cannot be directly tied to your conjecture. Got pics?

ETA: this subject requires a new thread. "Electric scarring", maybe.

 

[Matthew Cline]

We don't know, yet, if this has been incorporated into the official ech;

How many different Electric Comet hypotheses are there? I know there's a least three different Electric Sun hypotheses: the Sun as a capacitor, the Sun as a resistor with the current going in through one pole and out the other, and as a resistor with the current coming in through the poles and out the equator (or visa-versa).

 

[Sol88]

@ Tusenfem, could you please tell this maths poor crackpot how exactly this happens?

The Singing Comet

I mean it came as a SURPRISE -

“This is exciting because it is completely new to us. We did not expect this and we are still working to understand the physics of what is happening,” says Karl-Heinz.

Do you understand the physics Tusenfem?

Something to do magnetic oscillation?

 

[Sol88]

Reality Check, nice list

 

[Sol88]

Any more OSIRIS images yet?

Someone on the ESA blog suggested they could upload the OSIRIS images to zooniverse.org to help find Philea, that would be a real boon.

Why not?

 

[Sol88]

Hello, Sol88.

Sure, but it's not what scientists themselves say, is it?

You know, astronomers are quite crazy when it comes to bedtime stories ... did you know that astronomers call carbon a 'metal'?

And physicists are even more crazy; did you know that they call the very bright, green 'nebular' [OIII]500.7nm emission line 'forbidden'? I mean, if things like the Orion Nebula shine so brightly in this light, it can't exactly be forbidden, can it?

Then there's "flux" ... no, it's not the stuff you use when you weld roo-bars onto your ute, but some crazy thing to do with 'intensity' and is 'per Hertz' (which has nothing to do with car rentals).

Bloody scientists; why can't they speak proper?

Indeed, they need to remind us what PLASMA is

RPC consists of five instruments on the Rosetta orbiter that provide a wide variety of complementary information about the plasma environment surrounding Comet 67P/C-G. (Reminder: Plasma is the fourth state of matter, an electrically conductive gas that can carry magnetic fields and electrical currents.)

Still got it wrong though PLASMA is the fundamental state of matter!!

So not just a gas, eh? whodathunkit

 

[Haig]

That would take one helluva "thunderbolt"!

Your right there

That is anecdotal evidence that cannot be directly tied to your conjecture. Got pics?

Lots of pics in this video

An example of what a very large Electric Comet can do ...

Episode 2 Symbols of an Alien Sky: The Lightning Scarred Planet, Mars (Full Documentary)

In Episode 2 Symbols of an Alien Sky: The Lightning Scarred Planet, Mars, David Talbott takes the viewer on an odyssey across the surface of Mars. Exploring feature after feature of the planet, he finds that only electric arcs could produce the observed patterns. The high resolution images reveal massive channels and gouges, great mounds, and crater chains, none finding an explanation in traditional geology but all matching the scars from electric discharge experiments in the laboratory.

As a scientific follow-up to Symbols of an Alien Sky, this documentary provides a definitive answer to the question: was Mars carved from pole to pole by intense interplanetary discharge?

.

 

[Sol88]

Hello, Sol88.
Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
It's because thats the bedtime story the mainstream keeps telling the mums and dads to tell the kiddies!!

leftovers from the solar system formation, hangn out in the Oort cloud waiting for some random event......
Sure, but it's not what scientists themselves say, is it?

You know, astronomers are quite crazy when it comes to bedtime stories ... did you know that astronomers call carbon a 'metal'?

And physicists are even more crazy; did you know that they call the very bright, green 'nebular' [OIII]500.7nm emission line 'forbidden'? I mean, if things like the Orion Nebula shine so brightly in this light, it can't exactly be forbidden, can it?

Then there's "flux" ... no, it's not the stuff you use when you weld roo-bars onto your ute, but some crazy thing to do with 'intensity' and is 'per Hertz' (which has nothing to do with car rentals).

Bloody scientists; why can't they speak proper?

Forbidden you say? Mmm....what's do'n the exciting I'd wonder?

Ah, the flux capacitor ay! Were you meaning magnetic flux, electric flux or Poynting flux exactly?

Flux, Forbidden lines... all sounds very electrical to me!

 

[tusenfem]

@ Tusenfem, could you please tell this maths poor crackpot how exactly this happens?

The Singing Comet

I mean it came as a SURPRISE -

Do you understand the physics Tusenfem?

Something to do magnetic oscillation?

If you would actually read the posts that I write, you would not have to ask this question, but apparently reading is not your forte.

And as it is waves in the magnetic field, it probably has to do with magnetic oscillations, yes.

OTOH I will reply for the sake of not being as information retaining as the EC crowd.

Sure I can explain part of it, it is the interaction of the solarwind magnetoplasma with the weakly outgassing comet. This came as a surprise, because we have never visited a comet which was at this early stage of its development.

I actually got the poster yesterday, that will be presented at the AGU, the site is a bit slow, I am trying to get a link to the abstract. (website crash just before the meeting next week, as usual)

Anywhoooo ...
The gas coming out of the comet gets ionized and picked up by the solar wind magnetic field. Now, the gyro radius of these new ions is very very large, so it is not usual pickup in that region. This means that the pick-up current can be described as a Hall current.

Thus we try to use the model by Thompson et al. (1996) (pdf available) and modify it for our purposes. I will not present my derivation of the dispersion relation here, too much work.

This does not completely describe the waves that we observe, so there is still an ingredient missing, maybe the dust, but like I say (and have said so before) we are working on it. These things take time, also because the frequency is not constant, and the density variations also vary. It is a very interesting plasmaphysical problem.

This is, in a nutshell, what real scientists are doing. More results should be available by the end of January, because that is the deadline for the next Science special issue.

 

[tusenfem]

Forbidden you say? Mmm....what's do'n the exciting I'd wonder?

Ah, the flux capacitor ay! Were you meaning magnetic flux, electric flux or Poynting flux exactly?

Flux, Forbidden lines... all sounds very electrical to me!

Please don't post anymore of these kind of posts, it shows laughably you lack of understanding of actual plasma physics.

 

[Sol88]

Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
Forbidden you say? Mmm....what's do'n the exciting I'd wonder?

Ah, the flux capacitor ay! Were you meaning magnetic flux, electric flux or Poynting flux exactly?

Flux, Forbidden lines... all sounds very electrical to me!

Please don't post anymore of these kind of posts, it shows laughably you lack of understanding of actual plasma physics.

Please Tusenfem and Jean Tate, tell me more about the “forbidden oxygen” line at 1128Å in the spectrum of Comet Austin.

Did you think I was fair dinkum, Tusenfem on the Flux capacitor? great movie, perhaps that's the comets charge, you know about

1.21 gigawatts! 1.21 gigawatts. Great Scott!

If we could somehow harness this lightning... channel it into the flux capacitor... it just might work. Next Saturday night, we're sending you back to the future!

No I understand what flux is in the context of this thread ELECTRIC COMET and it has nothing to do with snowballs, dirtballs or indeed Tusenfems new description for a comet a chemical comet!

 

[tusenfem]

Please Tusenfem and Jean Tate, tell me more about the “forbidden oxygen” line at 1128Å in the spectrum of Comet Austin.[

If you were only half as good at looking something up as you are at smileying, you would have no problem finding out what a forbidden emission line is.

Did you think I was fair dinkum, Tusenfem on the Flux capacitor? great movie, perhaps that's the comets charge, you know about

does not compute
what flux capacitor?

dinkum
ˈdɪŋkəm/
Australian/NZinformal
adjective
adjective: dinkum

1.
(of an article or person) genuine, honest, true.
"a real dinkum bloke"

adverb
adverb: dinkum

1.
really, truly, honestly.

Origin
late 19th century: of unknown origin.

No I understand what flux is in the context of this thread ELECTRIC COMET and it has nothing to do with snowballs, dirtballs or indeed Tusenfems new description for a comet a chemical comet!

So now science is done by hollywood movies? As much as I like Micheal J. Fox ... never mind.

Yeah, Birkie was wrong there, similarly as he was wrong about Saturn's rings.
Can happen, does not make him a lesser scientist though.

 

[LSSBB]

Your right there



Lots of pics in this video

An example of what a very large Electric Comet can do ...

Episode 2 Symbols of an Alien Sky: The Lightning Scarred Planet, Mars (Full Documentary)

.

Got pics of it actually occurring on a canyon inducing scale, as it happens?

 

[Sol88]

If you were only half as good at looking something up as you are at smileying, you would have no problem finding out what a forbidden emission line is.



does not compute
what flux capacitor?

dinkum
ˈdɪŋkəm/
Australian/NZinformal
adjective
adjective: dinkum

1.
(of an article or person) genuine, honest, true.
"a real dinkum bloke"

adverb
adverb: dinkum

1.
really, truly, honestly.

Origin
late 19th century: of unknown origin.



So now science is done by hollywood movies? As much as I like Micheal J. Fox ... never mind.

Yeah, Birkie was wrong there, similarly as he was wrong about Saturn's rings.
Can happen, does not make him a lesser scientist though.

Yeah, he was a bit of a rebel with that talk of electrical corpuscle-rays, field aligned currents, 'auroral electrojets'

Birkeland's theory of the aurora was eventually confirmed, a classic example of a fringe theory, ridiculed by scientists supporting the then mainstream, that has come to be accepted as a mainstream theory.

so yeah, poor 'ol Birkie

How long ago did he do this work???

 

[JeanTate]

Good morning, Sol88.

Hello, Sol88.

Sure, but it's not what scientists themselves say, is it?

You know, astronomers are quite crazy when it comes to bedtime stories ... did you know that astronomers call carbon a 'metal'?

And physicists are even more crazy; did you know that they call the very bright, green 'nebular' [OIII]500.7nm emission line 'forbidden'? I mean, if things like the Orion Nebula shine so brightly in this light, it can't exactly be forbidden, can it?

Then there's "flux" ... no, it's not the stuff you use when you weld roo-bars onto your ute, but some crazy thing to do with 'intensity' and is 'per Hertz' (which has nothing to do with car rentals).

Bloody scientists; why can't they speak proper?

Indeed, they need to remind us what PLASMA is

RPC consists of five instruments on the Rosetta orbiter that provide a wide variety of complementary information about the plasma environment surrounding Comet 67P/C-G. (Reminder: Plasma is the fourth state of matter, an electrically conductive gas that can carry magnetic fields and electrical currents.)

Still got it wrong though PLASMA is the fundamental state of matter!!

So not just a gas, eh? whodathunkit

Um, Sol88, you do realize that I wrote what you would surely consider to be a much worse post, don't you? (I've added some bold)

Good morning, David Talbott.

It's certainly interesting, exciting even, isn't it?

Personally, however, I take the PR stuff with a grain of salt, sometimes a large grain of salt. For example, as tusenfem never seems to tire of pointing out, the repeated use of the 'dirty snowball' meme is very misleading, no matter who keeps using it. It's a bit like how radio astronomers keep referring to 'gas' (in the intracluster medium, say) when they all know perfectly well that it's a plasma (and their models are built on plasma physics).

<snip>

And I see that tusenfem has given you some good advice:

Please don't post anymore of these kind of posts, it shows laughably you lack of understanding of actual plasma physics.

I guess it's a bit like someone thinking that porky pies has something to do with pigs ...

Willful ignorance might be funny, but it's not pretty.

 

[Belz...]

Damn it, JeanTate, I liked you better when your contempt for woo was more deceptively veiled.

 

[JeanTate]

Good morning, David Talbott.

Seems I got under someone's skin by posing a reasonable implication of the electric comet. I wrote, "In fact, a comet ripped from Mars by planet-wide electric discharge and immersed in a cloud of rocky debris would surely look very much like the surface of 67P."

Probably because the statement was entirely reasonable. I find that asking reasonable questions is the one way to get the best specialists to begin considering possibilities outside their usual field of view. Let's just see what happens when comet scientists do begin asking such questions. I think my faith in the future of science may be a lot higher than yours.

I guess that you have just demonstrated that "reasonable" is like "beauty" ... it is subjective.