Continuation Part 11: Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito

[Desert Fox]

I love the Knoxian culture: I (or any other non-cult member) posts in response to an on going conversation (in this case a conversation about the object in Mignini's hand) they then invariably shoot back with a totally unrelated question.

So how do you feel about the extremely skilled computer experts in the Italian Postal Police?

 

[Numbers]

Violations of ECHR Article 6.3 (right to legal assistance).
This is the likely primary complaint in Amanda's application regarding the calunnia conviction. There could be others, including, for example, an Article 3 violation (inhuman and degrading treatment).

There are about 160 judgments relating to violations of Article 6.3 (right to legal assistance) in the ECHR database. A fair number have Turkey as respondent; they had a State Security Court which had the special power of preventing newly arrested persons from consulting with a lawyer. Here's one of the recently judged cases:

CASE OF ARAS v. TURKEY (No. 2) 15065/07 18/11/2014

In this case, the applicant was allowed to literally "see" his lawyer while under questioning, but they were not allowed to speak. (Clever, no?) A violation.

In terms of timing, the application reached the ECtHR 23 March 2007.
The Government of Turkey was informed of the application (it was "communicated") on 5 May 2011.
ECtHR deliberated the case in private 7 October 2014.
The judgment was published 18 November 2014. It will be final 3 months from that date.

From the 7-year length of the process in this case (which seems in a way straight-forward), one can appreciate why countries choose to violate the ECHR for some short-term domestic gain.

 

[LondonJohn]

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Plus, I believe you can still access data from a broken computer. You literally have to break a hard drive into pieces before it becomes virtually impossible to recover said data, unless flash memory is used as the hard drive memory receptacle. Ask your expert if I'm right here or not,

d

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I think you're correct. In a magnetic disc hard drive (as were all the hard drives in this case) the data are stored as a magnetic imprint on the spinning platter (which looks sort of like a small thin LP vinyl record) in the heart of the unit. The problem is that the physical location of the data upon that disc platter is controlled by the logic board. The data are not arranged on the disc in any sort of linear order - it can be spread out all over the platter. Therefore, for example (and massively simplifying for clarity), a picture of a bird might store the beak on one part of the platter, the wings on a totally different part, the tail on yet another different part, and so on. The logic board knows the addresses of all these constituent parts, so if the user wanted to view the image, the logic board would know where to go on the platter to retrieve and re-assemble all the constituent parts.

Therefore, if you cook the logic board, you have a problem in that you lose the part that knows how all the information on the disc itself is assembled. You haven't lost the information, but you've lost the facility to make sense of it. There are some specialists who can use the manufacturer's algorithms to rebuild the address map, and I believe that sometimes it's also possible to substitute an identical logic board as a replacement and it will automatically figure out how the data on the platter are addressed.

 

[MDDVS]

So how do you feel about the extremely skilled computer experts in the Italian Postal Police?

He'll just find a similar example from somewhere else. He'll not understand the main point being made and will not see the fallacy underlying his answer.

 

[Vibio]

...whilst admitting you know nothing about the science in the case ...

This from science expert internet poster "Kauffer".

 

[Desert Fox]

In essence, someone at the "crack" Postal Police's forensic computer destruction examination unit fried the logic boards of the hard drives. They can only have done so by applying a much higher voltage than required to the hard drives. Most hard drives take 5V DC, but it appears in this case that much higher voltages (12V minimum, if not higher) were applied. This takes a special level of incompetence (or misconduct), since the power connectors to these boards should only be compatible with a 5V feed from a power supply. So some idiot either used the right connector but somehow managed to feed it a high-voltage supply, or they didn't use a connector at all and simply applied a ground line and a voltage line of their (idiotic) choosing direct to the power rails of the logic board.

It's such a massive and fundamental error that - as many have pointed out - it's perhaps too extreme even to be classified as sheer incompetence. I guess we shall never know. But either way it's another damning indictment of the "crack forensics" work in this case.

Here's a link to the English translation of Sollecito's defence expert's report that was recently made available:

http://themurderofmeredithkercher.com/Defence_Computer_Expert_Report_(English)

I once managed to fry a 3.5 inch hard drive (this was a decade or more ago) but what I did should be impossible to do with a 2.5 inch hard drive. I had a really badly worn molex which I manage to plug in backwards but I don't see how this is possible with a 2.5 hard drive.

 

[MDDVS]

This from science expert internet poster "Kauffer".

What about Peter Gill? Good enough scientist for you? Are you so deluded that you don't realise that there are plenty of scientists commenting on this case, some even on this very board?

 

[LondonJohn]

All true LJ but don't you think it would have been useful for Mig, and the other investigators, to keep notes of all their interactions with witnesses, suspects etc? I know that's what I do. Every time I put the phone down I make a note of what was said and I never see a client or a witness without a notebook to take down what they say. Otherwise, I forget what they tell me. I find it very odd that a two hour interview should yield a single sheet of typed paper, half of which is formal content.

I totally agree, and I too try to make notes of any significant business phone call or face-to-face conversation I have with anyone as soon as the call/conversation has finished. I should imagine that this is of increased importance and usefulness to a lawyer or anyone involved in law enforcement.

But I've never carried a dictaphone around, nor have I electronically recorded my own phone calls (though in a previous job all my calls were automatically recorded for regulatory purposes, but that's another matter). When I think of such things, my mind always turns to Nixon's obsession with electronic recording and eavesdropping when he was in the White House. Come to think of it, I know someone else who shares Nixon's jowly features, belligerent personality, and seeming ability to lie and misdirect with a straight face


(And of course I agree with you on the last sentence you wrote)

 

[LondonJohn]

I once managed to fry a 3.5 inch hard drive (this was a decade or more ago) but what I did should be impossible to do with a 2.5 inch hard drive. I had a really badly worn molex which I manage to plug in backwards but I don't see how this is possible with a 2.5 hard drive.

It's pretty much impossible to do so, owing to the directional configuration of the PATA connector - there's a wide physical notch on one edge of the female that will only mate with the corresponding groove on the male. And even if one managed somehow to force in the connector upside down, Pin 20 (5V in) would simply swap with Pin 19 (ground) - which I presume is a deliberate design feature. There's no way you could get the requisite large voltage spikes that must have been responsible for frying the circuit board and components simply by putting the connector in upside down (which is virtually impossible to do anyhow).

 

[Desert Fox]

It's pretty much impossible to do so, owing to the directional configuration of the PATA connector - there's a wide physical notch on one edge of the female that will only mate with the corresponding groove on the male. And even if one managed somehow to force in the connector upside down, Pin 20 (5V in) would simply swap with Pin 19 (ground) - which I presume is a deliberate design feature. There's no way you could get the requisite large voltage spikes that must have been responsible for frying the circuit board and components simply by putting the connector in upside down (which is virtually impossible to do anyhow).

I know a person who works on laptops. . . .Maybe I should visit him and see if he can come up with a way through stupidity that you can fry a 2.5 inch PATA. Then again, I suspect that they would find a way to fry a modern SATA as well

 

[Machiavelli]

First Magistrate’s hearing in front of Matteini (8 November 2007), p. 210, Darkness Descending (Paul Russell, Graham Johnson, Luciano Garofano).

“Judge Matteini said, ‘There are several points, Mr. Sollecito, that differ between your version of today and your version of events as related on the evening of 5 November just three days ago. Can you explain whether you were with Amanda Knox that evening or not?’
Now it was make-or-break time. Matteini had posed the million-dollar question. The one Mignini had been waiting for.
His pay-off was unexpected, effectively an explosive retraction of his initial confession.
Raffaele said, ‘I’m sorry I told you that crap about not being with Amanda. We were together that evening.’
…But now on the key point of the night in question, he was sticking to her like glue again. Backing her up… ‘I can confirm that I spent the night with Amanda Knox.’”


A Murder in Italy, page 198 (Candace Dempsey)

“Then the judge asked the Italian student what he did remember, prompting a long, dull discussion about the broken pipe under the sink, which he had showed Amanda, discussing with her the probable cause of the leak, a perennial problem in that flat. He also remembered eating dinner with her, watching a movie, working on his computer, getting tired, and going to sleep. Yes of course they slept together. He just couldn’t remember what time they did each action, because he’d been stoned, in a holiday mood, and not punching a time clock.”

Why don't you quote the actual papers from Matteini's hearing, instead of rebounce the ball on second hand reports?

 

[Kauffer]

Expertise

This from science expert internet poster "Kauffer".

No! THIS:

http://thefreelancedesk.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/Budowle_knox_clean.pdf

Let's see if you can understand it.

Doubtless, you will either ignore it or insult Dr Budowle - unless you can break your pattern.

Then you could learn something.

 

[Machiavelli]

What about Peter Gill? Good enough scientist for you? Are you so deluded that you don't realise that there are plenty of scientists commenting on this case, some even on this very board?

The delusion they express about all other matters of this case speaks for them.

 

[Kauffer]

Delusion

The delusion they express about all other matters of this case speaks for them.

Peter Gill is deluded??

 

[MDDVS]

Peter Gill is deluded??

I think Machiavelli was refererring to himself (?)

 

[Machiavelli]

Vibio claims there is no legal requirement in Italy to tape interrogations. If this is true, why have the police never used this as a justification for not taping the interrogations?

The police have never been accused of mot taping the interrogation.
The police were never called to answer about that point.

 

[Machiavelli]

Peter Gill is deluded??

The subject is those scientists who write on this board.
Peter Gill is simply wrong about facts.

 

[Bill Williams]

I love the Knoxian culture: I (or any other non-cult member) posts in response to an on going conversation (in this case a conversation about the object in Mignini's hand) they then invariably shoot back with a totally unrelated question.


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Well gee Bill Williams... Yada yada yada and bla, bla, bla to you too.

I discussed and gave my opinion here about the knife-carrier's statements at his PR event months and months ago.

Please try to keep up.

My regret with the "yada yada", is that it elicits a response in kind.

I still would be nice if you would summarize your views of Raffaele's statements at his press conference.

 

[Bill Williams]

The subject is those scientists who write on this board.
Peter Gill is simply wrong about facts.

Please cite your own credentials for being able to say such things.

 

[Samson]

Whatever it was which was possible, it satisfied the one person who is hanging his future liberty on it....

Raffaele.

He covers this in his book. The incredible thing, really, is that aside from seeing each other in court, they had no opportunity, really, to influence one another. After initially imagining the worst about Amanda, Raffaele simply put it together. To his own satisfaction.

And he has not wavered since. Three trials, one press conference, and one final appeal to Cassazione later.

And I think that Bongiorno/Sollecito knows that the real answer to the question:

If you're saying that Amanda went out, then what's this got to do with me?​

... will bring down the whole house of cards against both RS and AK.

It may not be at the March 2015 Cassazione decision.... but it will topple.

I just don't know why the pro-guilt lobby here won't answer the question - is Raffaele guilty?[/

Killer's regret. Think of the cat mourning for the dead mouse.