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I'll note that it works the other way too. Some had already decided, before evidence, that he was a thug who caused his own death. They have flogged happening to be correct on the conclusion for their political agenda.

Coming to the correct conclusion through invalid reasoning is hardly to be lauded.

I absolutely agree, and I meant to include people on both sides who made up their minds without waiting for the evidence.
And it is not just individuals,sadly. MSNBC and FOX NEWS both adapted a POV the day this news broke and neither has allowed evidence to change their minds. MSNBC is pretty much still proclaiming Brown/s guilt,and FOX is defending not only Brown, but the Ferguson Police Depatement in general, and is refusing to admit their might be a problem......
 
I absolutely agree, and I meant to include people on both sides who made up their minds without waiting for the evidence.
And it is not just individuals,sadly. MSNBC and FOX NEWS both adapted a POV the day this news broke and neither has allowed evidence to change their minds. MSNBC is pretty much still proclaiming Brown/s guilt,and FOX is defending not only Brown, but the Ferguson Police Depatement in general, and is refusing to admit their might be a problem......

I usually prefer to see Megyn Kelly cry like she did election night 2012, and I find agreeing with her distasteful.

Are you sure you didn't mean Wilson instead of Brown above?
 
FWIW, I think there is a very real problem of racism in Furgeson and an abuse of power (arresting media, flight restrictions) but those are completely different issues than Wilson's guilt/innocence and people are so blinded by the systemic problems that they just can't accept that Wilson responded reasonably. He had been punched a couple of times and Brown attempted to get his gun before he fired the first shot. How many of us would have been freaked out enough in those circumstances to have done the same thing? The most disturbing thing I thought about this whole affair is that it is standard for police to ride alone in Furguson. I think that is a recipe for disaster and if Wilson had a partner, this may have prevented Brown's tragic death. I think the focus should be on procedure and protocol generally so people like Brown and Wilson never find themselves in the situation they found themselves in.
 
CNN is reporting the theft of an AR-15 (semi-automatic assault rifle!!!) from a torched police car like it's potentially the next big terror about to descend upon Ferguson.

On the flip side they did a brief segment on people turning up to help repair parts of the city damaged by criminals rioting.

Ranb
 
I'll note that it works the other way too. Some had already decided, before evidence, that he was a thug who caused his own death. They have flogged happening to be correct on the conclusion for their political agenda.

Quite true. But consider how this comment is phrased. It's just a given that there are sides. That's the only way that the phrase "the other way" could have any meaning. Well, there's a "way." And then there's an "other way." But of course! And maybe we can spend, oh, five or six seconds looking for facts, provided that they don't threaten the ways, which are, of course basic.

The more I hear about Michael Brown and Ferguson, the less I am inclined to believe any of the pat, facile stories.
 
CNN is reporting the theft of an AR-15 (semi-automatic assault rifle!!!) from a torched police car like it's potentially the next big terror about to descend upon Ferguson.

Good. Well, of course, it isn't an assault rifle, because the sine qua non of an assault rifle is that it at least be switchable to full-auto, and it can't. And it's also probably the most popular rifle in the US. But hell, it's a rifle, and rifles are used in a whopping 3% of murders in the US. 3% is twice 1.5%, and don't tell me it isn't, you evil racist!

And so it goes. Expect another push for legislation to ban black plastic on firearms. Wooden stocks with pictures of deer burnt on are fine, of course, because they make it physically impossible for rounds to hit anything but deer. And white people like them, of course.
 
Haven't followed the "true crime" of this story, but what do people make of the claim that the prosecution/grand jury was peculiar in that it dumped mountains of evidence and testimony? Cheekily argued here, but given more analysis from competing experts here. There is also data that grand juries treat police indictments differently.
 
FYI: From the initial flare-up back in August, the flight restrictions above the area were put into place since some shots has been fired into the air on the first day or two.

The notion that it's some sort of media blackout seems ridiculous to me with all of the live cameras and reporters running around on the ground in the midst of the chaos.
 
Haven't followed the "true crime" of this story, but what do people make of the claim that the prosecution/grand jury was peculiar in that it dumped mountains of evidence and testimony? Cheekily argued here, but given more analysis from competing experts here. There is also data that grand juries treat police indictments differently.

Personally I think that Grand Juries should only be used when there is doubt about a case, go to them, put all the evidence in front of them, and thus test is the case is strong enough to proceed. If you cheery pick the evidence to get an indictment all while hiding any evidence that proves doubt, you're going to be hammered in the court room because you have a weak case filled with holes. If you have a strong case, get them without a GJ, if it's a weak case, don't file it, only when it's in the middle should you need it. That prosecutors have basically turned GJ's into a side show to claim to have a case really should be embarrassing to the Judicial system.

Okay to this one. The trouble is that to cherry pick evidence, you get yourself in trouble. First you have to throw out any witness that stated that Brown Charged Wilson, then those that he was moving towards him. Then you have to try and match up whet you have left and the physical evidence, so you have to thrown out the physical evidence as well, including the autopsies. Great you get an indictment, based entirely on lies and fabrications by "eyewitnesses". That's great, but what happens when you go to court?

What was wrong about this GJ? It didn't reach the decision that the mob wanted. It wasn't a cherry picked rubber stamping. What was right? The decision was right, and the prosecution got it right to test the massive holes in their case by giving all the evidence before a defence lawyer got to do it for them.
 
Your statistics are without context.

This. As others have noted, your "statistics prove discrimination" is without merit. But if you want to play that game, work on this one:

90%+ of those incarcerated are male, yet they only comprise about 50% of the population. Clearly these statistics prove that they system is biased against males. Shouldn't there be some sort of investigation and correction of this alarming disparity?
 
Well, I do think the GJ was used as cover.

The prosecutor should have looked over the evidence, interviewed witnesses, compiled a report, and then if he felt that way, announced that he would not be pressing any charges.

He would probably have been removed from office...
 
Haven't followed the "true crime" of this story, but what do people make of the claim that the prosecution/grand jury was peculiar in that it dumped mountains of evidence and testimony?

The short answer is that the venue was legal and proper, followed tradition and the presentation at least seems from my probably 500/4000-page reading straightforward.

The long answer depends on how you are using the word peculiar.

In Missouri (as much of the southern US at least) grand juries are the lawful venue to investigate both official wrongdoing and circumstances where there is dispute if a crime was committed.

Missouri Revised Statute Chapter 540 defines the duties of a grand jury:

540.031. A grand jury may make inquiry into and return indictments for all grades of crimes and shall make inquiry into all possible violations of the criminal laws as the court may direct. The grand jury may examine public buildings and report on their conditions.

A grand jury may make inquires for all grades of crimes.

It's hard to kind of document a tradition in the context of a social media discussion but having a grand jury investigate a suspicious death is very normal absent evidence to charge someone with a crime. For instance:

Google search [grand jury investigates death -ferguson]

If you follow US media, you might recall a stock car racer killed a young driver when he ran over him after an in-race argument. That case was investigated by a grand jury and no indictment was returned.

As discussed during our previous incarnation, a police officer shot a young man holding an air rifle facsimile of a popular semiautomatic firearm. That case was investigated by a grand jury and no indictment was returned.

In fact, grand jury investigations of official misconduct that they have become a kind of enumerated right in the Missouri Constitution:

Section 16. Grand juries—composition—jurisdiction to convene—powers.— That a grand jury shall consist of twelve citizens, any nine of whom concurring may find an indictment or a true bill: Provided, that no grand jury shall be convened except upon an order of a judge of a court having the power to try and determine felonies; but when so assembled such grand jury shall have power to investigate and return indictments for all character and grades of crime; and that the power of grand juries to inquire into the willful misconduct in office of public officers, and to find indictments in connection therewith, shall never be suspended.

So in that way [i.e. the power of grand juries to inquire into the willful misconduct in office of public officers, and to find indictments in connection therewith, shall never be suspended] it moves from potentially peculiar to constitutionally protected.

If one accepts the grand jury as the legitimate venue to "make inquires" into the shooting, then all the available evidence is the only rational approach.

The subject really branches off wildly outside the basics...

Could the prosecutor have Nifonged Darren Wilson to appease the angry mob? Probably yes, but there's also a cautionary tale there.

Is the grand jury venue a statistical peculiarity? Very -- but so are jury trials. For the subset that are police officer admits killing a person in the line of duty after that person robbed a corner store and assaulted the cop trying to detain him cases -- I don't know.


Missouri Rules of Professional Conduct 4-3.8:

The prosecutor in a criminal case shall refrain from prosecuting a charge that the prosecutor knows is not supported by probable cause;​

Probable cause simply doesn't exit - to the county prosecutor, to the state government and to the federal government. Oh yea, also a regularly-constituted grand jury said it didn't either.
 
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By the way, the scene supervisor did make a Cop 101 error in letting Wilson leave scene alone and with his service weapon.
 
Yeah, how'd that turn out? Folks calmed down right away? Cops didn't misbehave at all with more cops around?

I'm taking it that you're totally against the idea of having officers patrolling in pairs, increasing foot patrols and community cops to liaison with the community in the area then?
 
If you follow US media, you might recall a stock car racer killed a young driver when he ran over him after an in-race argument. That case was investigated by a grand jury and no indictment was returned.
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I served on a criminal jury the week before in the Ontario County Courthouse. All us jurors were asked if we wanted to serve for that Grand Jury session since we were already sworn jurors.



ETA: I didn't volunteer because I didn't want to lose the job I ended up losing on Halloween.
 
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Yeah, how'd that turn out? Folks calmed down right away? Cops didn't misbehave at all with more cops around?

Would have been worse with less or no cops. People were setting fire to the buildings where the cops weren't.
 
Well, I do think the GJ was used as cover.

The prosecutor should have looked over the evidence, interviewed witnesses, compiled a report, and then if he felt that way, announced that he would not be pressing any charges.

He would probably have been removed from office...

Gov. Nixon didn't have the grapes to find his Angela Corey. All the dark grey-colored anthropomorphic forensic mannequins on E-Bay can sleep easy tonight.
 
Here’s the simple point that all the outraged blogs and posts I’ve read seem to be missing: It is possible for ALL of the following things to be true (and I’m not saying I think all of them are, but roll with me):

• Black citizens in Ferguson (and many other places like it) have been marginalized by generations of systemic racism from many directions.
• Ferguson police have a history of treating black citizens unfairly, and the black community’s mistrust of police is entirely justified.
• Wilson is a racist jerk.
• Wilson was justified in shooting Brown in self-defense.

The trueness or falseness of that last point is entirely independent of the trueness of falseness of the other three, much as some people would apparently like to pretend otherwise. Even if the rage bloggers’ worst condemnations of Wilson, the Ferguson police, and society are true, that still does not negate the possibility that Wilson acted justifiably in self defense in this instance. It is possible for a person to be racist jerk with a racist agenda in a racist system, and still legitimately need to use deadly force for self defense.


Very good post.
 
I'm taking it that you're totally against the idea of having officers patrolling in pairs, increasing foot patrols and community cops to liaison with the community in the area then?

That, especially the last bit, is entirely different than what was described and suggested.
 
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