Continuation Part 11: Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito

[AmyStrange]

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I fail to see how a measure of one's normal, everyday behavior can be ascertained from observations made in abnormally stressful situations . . .

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I do understand your point.

But, I saw the much-played video of Raffaele and Amanda outside the house the day they found Meredith's body, and there was a reason why they played it over and over again. It was because their behavior looked odd.

Is it wrong to make judgements like that? Maybe, but all I can say in my defense is that it was my honest first impression that her behavior looked odd to me, but after much debate, I believe that it might be that she's either a social rebel, or socially inept, but all this (of course) is just my opinion,

d

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[AmyStrange]

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Vibio's statement was stronger, IIRC: "vile". And here's a definition of vile:

1
a : morally despicable or abhorrent <nothing is so vile as intellectual dishonesty>
b : physically repulsive : foul <a vile slum>
2
: of little worth or account : common; also : mean
3
: tending to degrade <vile employments>
4
: disgustingly or utterly bad : obnoxious, contemptible

Source: http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/vile

Perhaps a more tolerant view of the behavior would be that it was a product of relative immaturity and stress. But why be tolerant of anyone who appears to be a bit odd?

And what are to make of police who joke and laugh at crime scenes, even murders?

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And like I also said, you can find that type of behavior at any funeral; and I agree LE, especially homicide, does use black humor as a defensive measure against a constant bombardment of the darker side of life. I guess the unasked question is, are all these people guilty of murder or potential murderers also?

I don't think so,

d

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[MichaelB]

Knox sounds pretty vile.

As her "best friend" lay dead after having her throat slashed only hours before... the friends of Meredith describe Knox's gleeful, sexually charged behavior at the police station:

Robin Butterworth testifying in court:

"I found Amanda's behavior very strange and I found it quite difficult to be around her."

"Knox and Sollecito fooled around as they waited".

"I remember Amanda sticking her tongue out at Raffaele," Butterworth said in English, her testimony translated for the court. "They were talking and joking, kissing and cuddling.""

Amy Frost, another witness who was also at the police station, said Knox "made faces," such as crossing her eyes and sticking her tongue out. She was "giggling" and kissing Sollecito, said Frost.

These are just snips from a newspaper article which you forgot to post a link to. Why not post the actual testimony with a page number so we can take a look at exactly what was said?

As far as behaviour, this is enough to show she was saddened hearing her housemate/friend had been murdered. They weren't best friends, sisters or lovers so expecting her to be crying like a baby for hours is ridiculous.

Luca Altieri’s testimony

Page 224:

Mignini: Listen, when… do you remember if you saw Amanda cry in the Police Station?
Altieri: Amanda had already cried outside the house, also going to the Police Station in the car, yes, at a certain point…Mignini: when did she cry?
Altieri: Now, after I… she asked me this… I don’t remember well if she asked how, with what she had been killed, basically, how they had cut her throat, and when I gave her the answer to this question she burst out crying.

Page 229:

Dalla Vedova: one last clarification and I’ve finished. On the question of whether Amanda cried outside.
Altieri: Yes
Dalla Vedova: she was crying because she was in shock, do you think?
Altieri: Do I think?
Dalla Vedova: Your statement to the police [verbale] ends thus: she started crying.
Altieri: Yes
Dalla Vedova: As soon as you gave her this news, when you gave her the news that…
Altieri: Yes, I mean it certainly seemed to be a reaction to the thought of what I had said, then if it was or it wasn’t this other thing, I wouldn’t be able to say.
Dalla Vedova: No, I wasn’t asking for your opinion. You said to Amanda: I heard that there is a girl which it seems… killed because she has a cut on her throat and she started to cry as a result of this.
Altieri: Yes
Dalla Vedova: In that moment was Sollecito nearby?
Altieri: He was in the car, in the back seat.
Dalla Vedova: And he was trying to console her
Altieri: We were going to the Police Station
Dalla Vedova: He was trying to console Knox because she was crying?
Altieri: I don’t know, in that moment there I couldn’t tell you, when I said earlier that he was trying to console her I was referring to a scene outside the house, in the period when we were still there.
Dalla Vedova: However earlier you said that Amanda cried the first time when you were outside the house, then also in the car
Altieri: yes, it’s there that… it’s there that I visually saw him console her, outside the house when she was crying Dalla Vedova: And to you it seemed right that she behaved this way or did it seem strange to you?
Altieri: No, it seemed normal.

Her aunt Dorothy Najir testified about their phone calls November 2-5. Amanda was sad, confused, stressed, wanted to help, wanted to meet John Kercher when he arrived. Most of those calls were wiretapped and Mignini never contested what she was saying since he had the transcripts and knew it was accurate. What do you make of that? Amanda was just acting and putting on a performance for her aunt?

Doroty Najir’s testimony

Page 17:

QUESTION: It is always that you called her, I understand. What did Amanda say in that telephone call of November 2 at 15.00?
ANSWER- Ms, Knox was terrified, confused, she did not know what was happening and was on the verge of a nervous breakdown.
QUESTION: But did she say that the body of her friend was found?
ANSWER: Yes.
QUESTION: And did she recount how the body was found?
ANSWER: No, she only mentioned that the body was found.
QUESTION: Did she say who found it?
ANSWER: The police.
QUESTION: Did she say where she had been in the evening? That evening?
ANSWER: She mentioned that she had been at the house of Mr Sollecito.
QUESTION: She said that during that phone call?
ANSWER: Yes.


Page 22:

QUESTION: Do you remember having spoken with Amanda about the father of Meredith who was arriving in Perugia?
ANSWER: Yes, Ms Knox made a reference that Mr Kercher was to arrive in Perugia.
QUESTION: Did you know if Knox would have met the father of Meredith after the discovery?
ANSWER: Ms Knox would have wanted to speak with Mr Kercher and tell him whatever she knew and how she imagined that things might have went but they never met.
PRESIDENTE: Regarding one of the last questions made by the counsel can you ask the woman about this intention shown by Amanda Knox that she wanted to meet the father of Meredith Kercher, how it came up, under what circumstances, when, in what words, if it could be more specific?
ANSWER: She just wanted to meet him, to give him her condolences, to tell him anything she knew of, to be kind to him.
QUESTION: But when was it that she said it to you, in what phone call, in what context, was it advice that you gave to Amanda or Amanda’s idea, in other words how did this conversation come about?
ANSWER: It was not the woman (translator note: Is this referring to the voice of the cousin? She is possibly saying “It was not me”) to give this advice to her, it was Ms Knox who said the… she knew that Mr Kercher was to arrive in Perugia and that she wanted to meet with him.

 

[griffinmill]

The bathmat print was made by a male human being, all of whom are primates. That is what we know. Guede is the male human being that claimed to be there messing with Meredith's blood. This is called a clue in detective work.

Let me refresh. The original post you responded to was a graphic decrying a luminol footprint ascribed to Sollecito.

It said: "I can't believe the Polizia Scientifica clowns tried to attribute this luminol print to Raffaele."

You responded: "It's got primate written all over it, and that narrows down the list of candidates considerably."

I'll let the lurkers decide whether your meaning was sarcastic, and that the list of possible candidates was reduced to all "primates." Or whether the list of candidates was reduced to the "primate," Rudy Guede.

 

[Samson]

Let me refresh. The original post you responded to was a graphic decrying a luminol footprint ascribed to Sollecito.

It said: "I can't believe the Polizia Scientifica clowns tried to attribute this luminol print to Raffaele."

You responded: "It's got primate written all over it, and that narrows down the list of candidates considerably."

I'll let the lurkers decide whether your meaning was sarcastic, and that the list of possible candidates was reduced to all "primates." Or whether the list of candidates was reduced to the "primate," Rudy Guede.

Yes griffinmill, your endeavour to legitimately label another person who is certain of the ethnic origin and identity of Meredith's killer, a racist, is not lost on me.
I have said before that I belong to a liberal cultural grouping, just like the American citizens that successfully acknowledge the past while embracing a future where meritocracy guarantees equal opportunity.

ETA guarantees is wrong.
Ideally affords equal opportunity is closer to my idea.

 

[griffinmill]

Yes griffinmill, your endeavour to legitimately label another person who is certain of the ethnic origin and identity of Meredith's killer, a racist, is not lost on me.
I have said before that I belong to a liberal cultural grouping, just like the American citizens that successfully acknowledge the past while embracing a future where meritocracy guarantees equal opportunity.

Well said. Too bad your words betray you.

 

[Samson]

Well said. Too bad your words betray you.

Expand.
Which words?
This debate about race is not designed by simple souls who know who killed Meredith and who did not, but which words betray me?

 

[Dan O.]

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I do understand your point.

But, I saw the much-played video of Raffaele and Amanda outside the house the day they found Meredith's body, and there was a reason why they played it over and over again. It was because their behavior looked odd.
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Have you ever seen that clip when it wasn't being looped?

 

[Samson]

Have you ever seen that clip when it wasn't being looped?

Is it true Filomena was filmed fondling her boy friend's buttocks? Or was the action merely described by witnesses?

 

[anglolawyer]

These are just snips from a newspaper article which you forgot to post a link to. Why not post the actual testimony with a page number so we can take a look at exactly what was said?

As far as behaviour, this is enough to show she was saddened hearing her housemate/friend had been murdered. They weren't best friends, sisters or lovers so expecting her to be crying like a baby for hours is ridiculous.



Her aunt Dorothy Najir testified about their phone calls November 2-5. Amanda was sad, confused, stressed, wanted to help, wanted to meet John Kercher when he arrived. Most of those calls were wiretapped and Mignini never contested what she was saying since he had the transcripts and knew it was accurate. What do you make of that? Amanda was just acting and putting on a performance for her aunt?

This will go in one ear and out the other and a few pages from now Vibio will show his or her true colours once more. The grip is simply too strong. Another characteristic instance of guilter hypocrisy, myopia and seemingly wilful bias is the outrage that Amanda should have had any concern that, had she been at home instead of Meredith, she would have been the victim. And yet the English friends were so scared they were unable to go to sleep that night, or go to their separate homes and all flew straight home the next day.

 

[Vibio]

As far as behaviour, this is enough to show she was saddened hearing her housemate/friend had been murdered.

Saddened etc.... well one would of course expect that.

But the deliberate and disgusting display in front of others at the police station (of all places) shows another (very cruel) side of her being.

 

[Desert Fox]

Let me refresh. The original post you responded to was a graphic decrying a luminol footprint ascribed to Sollecito.

It said: "I can't believe the Polizia Scientifica clowns tried to attribute this luminol print to Raffaele."

You responded: "It's got primate written all over it, and that narrows down the list of candidates considerably."

I'll let the lurkers decide whether your meaning was sarcastic, and that the list of possible candidates was reduced to all "primates." Or whether the list of candidates was reduced to the "primate," Rudy Guede.

You might want to refresh yourself a little on biology
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QT4Gnt1Ku4Y

We are all primates - that a person might see racist overtones in their problem not anybody elses.

 

[carbonjam72]

Saddened etc.... well one would of course expect that.

But the deliberate and disgusting display in front of others at the police station (of all places) shows another (very cruel) side of her being.

Perhaps you're just looking through "very cruel" eyes?

 

[Numbers]

Air-breathing fish with legs

You might want to refresh yourself a little on biology
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QT4Gnt1Ku4Y

We are all primates - that a person might see racist overtones in their problem not anybody elses.

DF,
Thanks for pointing out that youtube vid.
I will point out a less frenetic presentation, in book form:
Your Inner Fish: A Journey into the 3.5-Billion-Year History of the Human Body, by Neil Shubin
It was also made into a PBS documentary.

The mat footprint was made by an air-breathing fish (somewhat modified) with legs (bipedal).
That narrows it down a bit.

When the guilters sense they are losing on the merits, they play the racism card. Or the behavioral card. Or the anti-American card.

But don't expect them to argue the evidence in accordance with Italian law, such as CCP Article 192, the Italian Constitution, such as Article 111, or the European Convention on Human Rights, Article 6. I suspect many of them have never heard of those laws. They persist in wallowing in their abhorrent muddy pools of hate.

 

[RWVBWL]

To Console...

Is it true Filomena was filmed fondling her boy friend's buttocks?
Or was the action merely described by witnesses?

If it wasn't apparent Samson is a freak, after that last post it should not be in doubt.

Golly,

that sure does look like Filomena is getting consoled during her grief also.
Or maybe she is consoling her boyfriend?
Or maybe her hand is cold?
Hmmmm, cute...

 

[RWVBWL]

Saddened etc.... well one would of course expect that.

But the deliberate and disgusting display in front of others at the police station Meredith's flat (of all places) shows another (very cruel) side of her being.

Fixed that for you Vibio.

Gosh,
I'm aghast!
What the heck is Filo doing with her hand in her boyfriends pants?
Deliberately and disgustingly displaying some affection???

Give it a break, Vibio...
Pfffft.

 

[Chris_Halkides]

it is the image of a human foot, and that's it

Let me refresh. The original post you responded to was a graphic decrying a luminol footprint ascribed to Sollecito.

It said: "I can't believe the Polizia Scientifica clowns tried to attribute this luminol print to Raffaele."

You responded: "It's got primate written all over it, and that narrows down the list of candidates considerably."

I'll let the lurkers decide whether your meaning was sarcastic, and that the list of possible candidates was reduced to all "primates." Or whether the list of candidates was reduced to the "primate," Rudy Guede.

griffinmill,

I would not take the foot track on the bathmat as evidence against anyone. It was probably made by a human male, but it lack defining features and was made on an irregular surface (I have a suspicion of who made it, but that is a separate question). The fact that Rinaldi attributed it to Raffaele says a great deal about Rinaldi but little about the track itself. Dr. Vinci is far more competent than Rinaldi, as shown by their work with respect to the shoe prints in Meredith's bedroom.

ETA
Apparently you and Samson were discussing a foot track in the hallway, and I misunderstood. Therefore, I have no suspicion of who made it, having no information on when it was made (see comment below).

 

[Machiavelli]

griffinmill,

I would not take the foot track on the bathmat as evidence against anyone. It was probably made by a human male, but it lack defining features and was made on an irregular surface (I have a suspicion of who made it, but that is a separate question). The fact that Rinaldi attributed it to Raffaele says a great deal about Rinaldi but little about the track itself. Dr. Vinci is far more competent than Rinaldi, as shown by their work with respect to the shoe prints in Meredith's bedroom.

Look how everybody avoids to deal with the merits of the footprint measurements.
They even avoid to deal with the merits of Vinci's analysis and with Rinaldi's findings.

 

[MichaelB]

griffinmill,

I would not take the foot track on the bathmat as evidence against anyone. It was probably made by a human male, but it lack defining features and was made on an irregular surface (I have a suspicion of who made it, but that is a separate question). The fact that Rinaldi attributed it to Raffaele says a great deal about Rinaldi but little about the track itself. Dr. Vinci is far more competent than Rinaldi, as shown by their work with respect to the shoe prints in Meredith's bedroom.

Chris this was re the single luminol print attributed to Raffaele. Photo of it is in post 1727.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=10327458#post10327458

 

[MichaelB]

Footprint map: