Continuation Part 11: Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito

[carbonjam72]

Carlizzi used to jump in every high profile murder or 'mystery' claiming she had insights and information. I wouldn't be surprised if he travelled immediately to Perugia, since this is what she would always do. I wouldn't even rule out that she tried to contact the Procura saying she wanted to be heard and help the investigation, because this is what she always tried to do.
Obviously she did not give advice to Mignini. The last time she had tried to do so, as I pointed out, Mignini arrested her.

Well Preston & Spezi report that the psychic medium Gabriella Carlizzi did travel to Perugia within days of the kercher killing, and that she did have an informal meeting with Mignini, in his office, although no transcript of the session was taken.

I'm not surprised that she chased after sensational crimes, we've seen thse kinds of people as well. What I'm surprised about, is if TV stations were putting her on national TV shows and allowing her to share her "illuminations" with the public.

Do you believe the convictions of Pacciani, Lotti and Vanni are correct? Do you believe the Monster of Florence killings were the work of a satanic sect, killing and mutilating young women for their 'black masses'?

Do you believe that Antonio Vinci is not the true Monster of Florence?

Do you think the US FBI profile provided to the Italian police in 1989, identifying the Monster of Florence as a lone killer, is simply wrong?

Do you think that the algebraic witnesses in the MOF cases, like the witnesses Curatolo, Nara, and Quintavale are reliable, and not feeble minded and inherently unreliable?

 

[Charlie Wilkes]

Well P2P programs have scripts that start downloads automatically.You don't have to invent one.

Sure. E 'possibile...

Similarly, Meredith's dinner could have curdled in her stomach for five hours in defiance of medical science. E 'possibile...

And her phone could have picked up a rogue signal from a distant repeater while she was toying with it on her bed at 10:13 pm. E 'possibile...

Thankfully you have your infallible junkie, your infallible crazy old lady, your infallible streetwalker-cum-lab-technician, and your Infallibile Blue Loony-nol from Zeta Reticuli, to convince you of what really happened.

Now if only you could convince us. It's not working. I think the problem may be that you are too sparing with words, and you concede too easily when you are faced with contrary facts.

 

[Chris_Halkides]

Stardust: the newly translated computer report

From the translated report: "Sure enough, the keyboard, which previously deactivated at 4.34 pm on November 5, 2007, suddenly reactivated at 10.04 pm, going again into standby mode at 10.14 pm..." I realize that this has been noted before, but it bears repeating. On the basis of this information, Raffaele was obviously a suspect earlier than 10:04 PM on 5 November (contradicting a PG talking point), and this may be of interest to a neutral, objective court. There are also fourteen instances where the word "Stardust" occurs. It is unclear to me when Stardust was accessed, but this question came up in some of the earlier threads.

 

[Numbers]

The Naruto file actually doesn't exist among the defence arguments. That was in only in a second defence report that was presented only on appeal and was not accepted.

If this is correct, the rejection of the defense evidence by the appeal court is another example of arbitrary prejudice against the defense (that is, in the ECHR sense, failure to allow equality of arms), IMO.

If the appeal court did not accept the document as evidence, this is likely to have been appealed to the CSC in the latest appeal.

If the murder/rape part of the case reaches the ECtHR, how the Italian courts treated this and other defense evidence will be at issue. The ECtHR judges the overall fairness of trials. The arbitrary denial of entry to evidence of defense documents would be one indication of the failure to allow equality of arms, a violation of Article 6 of the Convention. When the ECtHR rules that the trials were unfair, which is certain because of the arbitrary quashing of the Hellmann acquittal, the Italian judicial system will be shown to be prejudiced and inadequate. Italian citizens will demand reform of the judicial system.

ETA: The quashing of Hellmann acquittal was arbitrary since there was no convincing argument put forth by the CSC that would be accepted by an objective, reasonable court.

 

[Samson]

If the appeal court did not accept the document as evidence, this is likely to have been appealed to the CSC in the latest appeal.

If the murder/rape part of the case reaches the ECtHR, how the Italian courts treated this and other defense evidence will be at issue. The ECtHR judges the overall fairness of trials. The arbitrary denial of entry to evidence of defense documents would be one indication of the failure to allow equality of arms, a violation of Article 6 of the Convention. When the ECtHR rules that the trials were unfair, which is certain because of the arbitrary quashing of the Hellmann acquittal, the Italian judicial system will be shown to be prejudiced and inadequate. Italian citizens will demand reform of the judicial system.

ETA: The quashing of Hellmann acquittal was arbitrary since there was no convincing argument put forth by the CSC that would be accepted by an objective, reasonable court.

However the quashing was strongly predicted by Italians familiar with the system, such as Popper and Machiavelli. Ultimately it is a question of smoking guns for the defence, of which there are many, competing with the osmotic theory, where adding together false evidential items which can not be quite proven untrue, are stitched together and a truth value of 1 is declared, albeit arbitrarily. I wonder if a good parallel case has been before the ECtHR.

 

[Diocletus]

However the quashing was strongly predicted by Italians familiar with the system, such as Popper and Machiavelli. Ultimately it is a question of smoking guns for the defence, of which there are many, competing with the osmotic theory, where adding together false evidential items which can not be quite proven untrue, are stitched together and a truth value of 1 is declared, albeit arbitrarily. I wonder if a good parallel case has been before the ECtHR.

I think these people all suffer from a common mental illness.

 

[Numbers]

However the quashing was strongly predicted by Italians familiar with the system, such as Popper and Machiavelli. Ultimately it is a question of smoking guns for the defence, of which there are many, competing with the osmotic theory, where adding together false evidential items which can not be quite proven untrue, are stitched together and a truth value of 1 is declared, albeit arbitrarily. I wonder if a good parallel case has been before the ECtHR.

The closest I've found to date is an Albanian case:

Berhani v. Albania 847/05 04/10/2010 Violation of Article 6.1


Short summary:
No convincing evidence brought forth in the trial.

I posted excerpts from this case a few pages ago...post 960

ETA1: Also see: Caka v. Albania 44023/02 Final 08 Mar 2010 ... post 906

ETA2: Also see: Laska and Lika v. Albania 12315/04 Final 20/07/2010 ...post 969

The two applicants were accused and convicted of armed robbery. The robbers wore blue and white balaclavas. The suspects were put into an ID parade wearing blue and white balaclavas supplied by the police, the "controls" wore black balaclavas. The applicants had no lawyer at the ID parade. The ID parade was not conducted in conformance with Albanian law (CCP). Note that the applicants had requested the balaclavas be produced in Albanian court for review; this was denied. The ECtHR finds this denial to be groundless and unfair.

Note the similarity of the denial of presenting evidence (balaclavas from the ID parade) in police custody, from the investigation stage, of the Albanian case, to the denials of presenting DNA and electronic data files etc. in the possession of the police in the Knox - Sollecito case.

 

[Numbers]

The judgment in the Saba v. Italy case, 36629/10, 01/07/2014: violations of Article 3 substantive and Article 3 procedural (prohibition against torture and inhuman and degrading treatment)

ETA:
For an English summary, see:
http://www.statewatch.org/analyses/n...sons-final.pdf
The ECtHR judgment is in French only. There is an English press release.

ETA2:
The vice-president of the ECtHR is Guido Raimondi, the judge from Italy.

 

[Machiavelli]

If the appeal court did not accept the document as evidence, this is likely to have been appealed to the CSC in the latest appeal.

If the murder/rape part of the case reaches the ECtHR, how the Italian courts treated this and other defense evidence will be at issue. The ECtHR judges the overall fairness of trials. The arbitrary denial of entry to evidence of defense documents would be one indication of the failure to allow equality of arms, a violation of Article 6 of the Convention. When the ECtHR rules that the trials were unfair, which is certain because of the arbitrary quashing of the Hellmann acquittal, the Italian judicial system will be shown to be prejudiced and inadequate. Italian citizens will demand reform of the judicial system.

ETA: The quashing of Hellmann acquittal was arbitrary since there was no convincing argument put forth by the CSC that would be accepted by an objective, reasonable court.

The second computer expert reports by Sollecito's consultants was submitted to the Hellmann-Zanetti court, and it was the Hellmann court who rejected it. Ground for rejection is that it was submitted to the Appeals' court too late. At the Appeals' court submissions the parties were given a term of a number of weeks if they wanted to deposit the further evidence. Sollecito's submission was late and the document could not be admitted. This was the Hellmann's court ruling.

 

[Numbers]

However the quashing was strongly predicted by Italians familiar with the system, such as Popper and Machiavelli. Ultimately it is a question of smoking guns for the defence, of which there are many, competing with the osmotic theory, where adding together false evidential items which can not be quite proven untrue, are stitched together and a truth value of 1 is declared, albeit arbitrarily. I wonder if a good parallel case has been before the ECtHR.

The false evidence can't be proven untrue primarily because the police are withholding so much exculpatory evidence. DNA profile electronic data files, the results of the putative semen stain, etc.

 

[Dan O.]

AVI sucks a compression (in comparison to MP4) so that is likely just a stub of a movie.
Even so, a DVD quality MP4 will be about 2 Gigs

The style of this movie allows it to compress very well. This site says it is 261MB: http://bitsnoop.com/naruto1-seria-1-104-mediaset-in-ita-q2753512.html

 Naruto s1e100-104	
 Naruto Ep 102 - In Missione Nel Paese Del Tè - By Gadriel.avi	267 MB
 Naruto Ep. 100 - Un maestro per la vita - By Gadriel[ITA].avi	267 MB
 Naruto Ep. 101 - Dietro la maschera - By Gadriel[ITA].avi	261 MB
 Naruto Ep. 103 - Attacco in mare aperto - By Gadriel[ITA].avi	268 MB
 Naruto Ep. 104 - Il passato di Idate - By Gadriel[ITA].avi	265 MB

 

[Numbers]

The second computer expert reports by Sollecito's consultants was submitted to the Hellmann-Zanetti court, and it was the Hellmann court who rejected it. Ground for rejection is that it was submitted to the Appeals' court too late. At the Appeals' court submissions the parties were given a term of a number of weeks if they wanted to deposit the further evidence. Sollecito's submission was late and the document could not be admitted. This was the Hellmann's court ruling.

Even if the report was sincerely rejected due to a late submission, if the contents are significant and exculpatory for the defense, they must rightfully be admitted in the interests of justice IMO. I think that the defense would appeal any denial of admission of the report as evidence, and if it were still not admitted, the argument about the report to the ECtHR still holds.

 

[Bill Williams]

The second computer expert reports by Sollecito's consultants was submitted to the Hellmann-Zanetti court, and it was the Hellmann court who rejected it. Ground for rejection is that it was submitted to the Appeals' court too late. At the Appeals' court submissions the parties were given a term of a number of weeks if they wanted to deposit the further evidence. Sollecito's submission was late and the document could not be admitted. This was the Hellmann's court ruling.

So? If a court is already going to acquit because "the crime did not exist", why would that court need one more reason to acquit?

 

[Dan O.]

The computer logs show that someone watched a movie and then this Japanese cartoon on Raffaele's laptop. But, if guilt is presumed whereas innocence must be proved, the proof falls short of absolute. Raffaele's computer could have run a script to download and play videos while he was gone. That is what the prosecutor says, and the court system agrees.

That must have been a totally stupid Italian prosecutor that came up with that excuse. Raffaele could have written a script to keep his computer busy all night including browsing the web and sending emails to leave external evidence of an unbreakable alibi. Instead, they accuse him of writing a script that doesn't quite give him an alibi.

 

[Machiavelli]

Sure. E 'possibile...

Similarly, Meredith's dinner could have curdled in her stomach for five hours in defiance of medical science. E 'possibile...

But no. There is no real difference between a guilter scenario and an innocentista scenario as for the time when the origin of the criminal action began (I believe Knox and Guede were already in the house at 9:00 and the argument started then); medical science is far from precise on the topic of gastric emptying timings; statistical sample indicates anyway a value of a lag time beyond 90 minutes even if Meredith was killed by Sophie Pourton on her arrival home; there is no way to narrow the statistical error (10, 20 minutes); too many multiple factor affect uncertainty on gastric emptying delay (even gender: normal women 40% slower than men; alcohic drinks; a big number); and last but most important: Knox's alibi ends between 8:35 and 8:40, when Jovana Popovic met her, and both the defendants presented false alibies.

Finally, the evidence is massive and the only alibi that could challenge it would be a 100% absolutely certain proof.

And her phone could have picked up a rogue signal from a distant repeater while she was toying with it on her bed at 10:13 pm. E 'possibile...

Possible. But improbable.

Thankfully you have your infallible junkie, your infallible crazy old lady, your infallible streetwalker-cum-lab-technician, and your Infallibile Blue Loony-nol from Zeta Reticuli, to convince you of what really happened.

You know, I also have my eyes, I can interact with humans, and I can also understand language and read.

Now if only you could convince us. It's not working. I think the problem may be that you are too sparing with words, and you concede too easily when you are faced with contrary facts.

Well, you are not convincing me neither. Despite you are 10, 15 or 20 against one. Maybe there is something inconsistent in your argumentations.
Btw, do you concede things like, for example, that a confirmative blood test can only confirm, and not deny or make something become improbable?
Do you concede that Guede's second toe misses the alleged "mark" completely?

.....

....

Make a list of the things where you were proven wrong that you conceded.

 

[Machiavelli]

So? If a court is already going to acquit because "the crime did not exist", why would that court need one more reason to acquit?

Maybe I didn't explain myself properly: the Hellmann court refused to accept the computer record report because it was submitted late. Not because they "didn't need it" (although, I'm sure they didn't need it; they already had what they wanted to have from Sollecito).

 

[Numbers]

But no. There is no real difference between a guilter scenario and an innocentista scenario as for the time when the origin of the criminal action began (I believe Knox and Guede were already in the house at 9:00 and the argument started then); medical science is far from precise on the topic of gastric emptying timings; statistical sample indicates anyway a value of a lag time beyond 90 minutes even if Meredith was killed by Sophie Pourton on her arrival home; there is no way to narrow the statistical error (10, 20 minutes); too many multiple factor affect uncertainty on gastric emptying delay (even gender: normal women 40% slower than men; alcohic drinks; a big number); and last but most important: Knox's alibi ends between 8:35 and 8:40, when Jovana Popovic met her, and both the defendants presented false alibies.

Finally, the evidence is massive and the only alibi that could challenge it would be a 100% absolutely certain proof.

Possible. But improbable.



You know, I also have my eyes, I can interact with humans, and I can also understand language and read.



Well, you are not convincing me neither. Despite you are 10, 15 or 20 against one. Maybe there is something inconsistent in your argumentations.
Btw, do you concede things like, for example, that a confirmative blood test can only confirm, and not deny or make something become improbable?
Do you concede that Guede's second toe misses the alleged "mark" completely?

.....

....

Make a list of the things where you were proven wrong that you conceded.

The highlighted text: that a confirmative test can only confirm -- that statement is not correct. A confirmative test, if it scores as positive, shows confirmation - that is, blood is there, in the application of interest. If it scores as negative, the test shows that, with a very high degree of confidence, no blood is present.

From: http://www.nfstc.org/pdi/Subject02/pdi_s02_m02_02_b.htm

The method of choice today is the ABAcard® HemaTrace test strips manufactured by Abacus Diagnostics, Inc. Stain extract is applied to the bottom of the test strip, where any human hemoglobin present in the extract will combine with a monoclonal antihuman hemoglobin antibody. The antibody is labeled with a dye. Any antibody-antigen formed then migrates through an absorbent membrane to the test area of the strip. The test area has an immobilized polyclonal antihuman hemoglobin that will capture the Ag-Ab complex to form an Ab-Ag-Ab sandwich. The pink dye becomes visible as a band in the test region at concentrations of human hemoglobin above about 0.05 µg/ml. An internal control consisting of human hemoglobin antibody–dye conjugate cannot bind to the antibody in the test area but is captured by an antibody in the control area. A correctly functioning positive test will therefore show two pink bands, one in the test area and one in the control area. A correctly functioning negative test will show only one pink band, in the control area. If there is any problem with the test there will be no visible bands.

The ABAcard® test has been extensively validated and shown to be sensitive, specific and rapid.


ETA: In experiments by the Michigan State Police, the ABAcard HemaTrace detected blood at a dilution exceeding 1:16,777,000

See:
http://www.4n6shop.cz/static_pages_files file/Hematrace_Michigan%20State%20Police_Connie%20Swander_Jennifer%20Stites.pdf

 

[RWVBWL]

Stefanoni was showing photos of these findings.

Later, she also spoke about the sweatshirt saying it hat it's sleeves reversed.
Now, a fact is that you are not able to dispute Stefanoni's assertion that there were blood drops on the inside of the jeans. You try to speculate she got "confused", but it's your speculation; another fact is there wasn't a defence party who objected about this detail. They were all there in the courtroom, they didn't dispute it. We have pictures that suggest trousers are not reversed, yet even those pictures show only part of the jeans, most of them is covered by the duvet. In any event, the blood drops in the inside stands as a finding and I shall consider it undisputed.

Hi Machiavelli,
Is this the pair of Meredith's blue jeans that you claim were reversed?

You seem to be saying that there was blood found inside of her pants, right?
Was blood also found on her black underwear too?

 

[AmyStrange]

-

The computer logs show that someone watched a movie and then this Japanese cartoon on Raffaele's laptop. But, if guilt is presumed whereas innocence must be proved, the proof falls short of absolute. Raffaele's computer could have run a script to download and play videos while he was gone. That is what the prosecutor says, and the court system agrees.

-

Raffaele was getting a degree in computer science. He wrote something about three or four years ago about screen savers. He says there is a screensaver log you can read to see what happened every minute (or something like that), and I think he wrote that log survived the trashing of his computer by LE, and I know for a fact that my screensaver will come on sometimes even while I'm watching a movie. Screensavers are weird anyway and Windows still does weird stuff too. Raffaele probably studied Unix (Linux) because that's the OS (Operating System) that runs the web. JFYI.

I can't remember when I read about the screensaver, but I think I read some of it here, with a link to the rest. I think.

Anyway, how conveeeeeeenient is it that his computer was partially fried. I don't think it was totally fried though, so no one can prove if there was a script (or not) to run the movie. The thing about computers is that even when something is erased (all you are really doing is just deleting it from the index that tells the computer where everything is), it's still on your hard drive until it is overwritten, or formatted.

Besides, why would Raffaele run a script. That would seem to me that they knew when Meredith was going to be home so they could go and kill her like they planned. There's no reason, I can think of, to run a script like that unless it was for an alibi. That means they knew they were going to go over and kill her. Who contacted them to tell them she was home? Their phones were off, remember. I don't think even Meredith knew what time she was going to be home.

Maybe they took a wild shot in the dark that Meredith would be home around 9 and all they had to do was run this scipt as an alibi so we can go over and kill her. Even just typing that makes it sound more ridiculous than it did in my head.

And of course, this is all just my opinion,

d

-

 

[Machiavelli]

Well Preston & Spezi report that the psychic medium Gabriella Carlizzi did travel to Perugia within days of the kercher killing, and that she did have an informal meeting with Mignini, in his office, although no transcript of the session was taken.

I have no information about this, personally I think it never happened. However, this is theoretically possible. It is a behaviour that would be typical of Gabriella Carlizzi. But it would also be meaningless. Anyone can ask for an appointment with the prosecutor, there are even people from the PMF forum who had met Mignini, even the pro-Knoxes PRs had informal meetings with Mignini, even Candace Dempsey and Nina Burleigh had informal meetings with Mignini, even the current attorneys did after he was no longer working on the case, even I met Mignini. Even Mario Spezi did it, although that one was a formal hearing for a formal complaint (and he attempted to record it illegally). Even you can meet Mignini if you think you have something to say, you ask for an appointment at his secretary. This would mean absolutely anything.

I'm not surprised that she chased after sensational crimes, we've seen thse kinds of people as well. What I'm surprised about, is if TV stations were putting her on national TV shows and allowing her to share her "illuminations" with the public.

I have no clue. I never knew about her before, I've learned about her only after the Kercher case because of the noise she made on newspapers.
Here is an article from the days of her "testimony" at the Narducci investigation. You don't find these news sources on the internet. You can read a laconinc comment by Mignini "Those who don't know are talking, those who know are silent".

https://plus.google.com/photos/102650202927646952297/albums/5443682288363052225/5443366382209018898?banner=pwa&pid=5443366382209018898&oid=102650202927646952297

Do you believe the convictions of Pacciani, Lotti and Vanni are correct?

Yes

Do you believe the Monster of Florence killings were the work of a satanic sect, killing and mutilating young women for their 'black masses'?

Not exactly. I don't think it was a satanic sect. I think it was a small group of people who believed in magical healing power of some objecs and rituals, they believed in magic and exoteric medicine, not in satanism. They did collect fetishes for to be used in exoteric rituals, I think with the purpose of healing sexual disturbs.

Do you believe that Antonio Vinci is not the true Monster of Florence?

He has absolutely nothing to do with it. He likes women, but he likes them alive and not in pieces. Moreover, how old is he?

Do you think the US FBI profile provided to the Italian police in 1989, identifying the Monster of Florence as a lone killer, is simply wrong?

Yes, it's absolutely wrong. More than wrong: it's false. But it's not the only profiling of the MoF. Crimonologist Francesco Bruno, for example (who was a consultant to Sollecito's family too) had made a profiling of the MoF as an exoterism-motivated murder committed by a group of individuals. The profile was commissioned by the Italian secret service SISDE, but they kept it secret. They didn't give it to the police.
On the other hand, the US Department of State appeared to be weary about Narducci: the denied him the visa ti the USA as he requested it as he wanted to attend a Gastroenterology congress in the US, in 1985. He died months later.

Do you think that the algebraic witnesses in the MOF cases, like the witnesses Curatolo, Nara, and Quintavale are reliable, and not feeble minded and inherently unreliable

?

Feeble minded? Absolutely not.
I have no doubt about Nara Capezzali. But I have some doubts about Curatolo, although not because he was feeble minded: he was mentally ok, as well as not lying. My doubt is only related to a possible mistaking of the people since he saw the defendants from 35 meters at night.
I don't have any opinion about Quintavalle, he seemed normal, and I see no reason to believe he was lying.