Continuation Part 11: Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito

[Kauffer]

Tech stuff

AVI sucks a compression (in comparison to MP4) so that is likely just a stub of a movie.
Even so, a DVD quality MP4 will be about 2 Gigs

I am all at sea with understanding computers - in this case it seems entirely unclear to me what is and isn't proven with regard to the alibi relevant instances of the running of programmes. And then recently, Bill linked to the defence report and the claim here is that the postale police didn't do their work properly and more than this, someone in authority was tampering with the evidence.

From my point of view, both Ms Knox and Mr Sollecito are in his flat at least until 845pm, provably, serenely and happily, so the idea that they went from this out into the cold November night, in a murderous, revengeful rage is extraordinarily far fetched, which would require very compelling evidence - and that evidence does not exist.

But what do we really know about the computer activity and the subsequent examination of the equipment.

 

[Desert Fox]

I am all at sea with understanding computers - in this case it seems entirely unclear to me what is and isn't proven with regard to the alibi relevant instances of the running of programmes. And then recently, Bill linked to the defence report and the claim here is that the postale police didn't do their work properly and more than this, someone in authority was tampering with the evidence.

From my point of view, both Ms Knox and Mr Sollecito are in his flat at least until 845pm, provably, serenely and happily, so the idea that they went from this out into the cold November night, in a murderous, revengeful rage is extraordinarily far fetched, which would require very compelling evidence - and that evidence does not exist.

But what do we really know about the computer activity and the subsequent examination of the equipment.

If he at least started the movie, that seems to indicate that at least at that point they were home. That was 21:26 I believe. Amanda and Raff might have been scrambling each others brains at that point and not been worrying too much about the movie. Also, I thought I remember reading that what they were watching was only about 20 minutes long (You might get that into an AVI of about 261 Meg) as an AVI.

 

[Desert Fox]

I do not believe this has been posted . . . . .Expert Report on Raffale Sollecto's computer
http://murderofmeredithkercher.com/...4/11/Expert-Report-on-Sollecitos-computer.pdf
http://murderofmeredithkercher.com/computer-fraud-alibi/

Edit: Can Italian Law Enforcement do anything right?

 

[Charlie Wilkes]

I am all at sea with understanding computers - in this case it seems entirely unclear to me what is and isn't proven with regard to the alibi relevant instances of the running of programmes. And then recently, Bill linked to the defence report and the claim here is that the postale police didn't do their work properly and more than this, someone in authority was tampering with the evidence.

From my point of view, both Ms Knox and Mr Sollecito are in his flat at least until 845pm, provably, serenely and happily, so the idea that they went from this out into the cold November night, in a murderous, revengeful rage is extraordinarily far fetched, which would require very compelling evidence - and that evidence does not exist.

But what do we really know about the computer activity and the subsequent examination of the equipment.

The computer logs show that someone watched a movie and then this Japanese cartoon on Raffaele's laptop. But, if guilt is presumed whereas innocence must be proved, the proof falls short of absolute. Raffaele's computer could have run a script to download and play videos while he was gone. That is what the prosecutor says, and the court system agrees.

 

[Samson]

The computer logs show that someone watched a movie and then this Japanese cartoon on Raffaele's laptop. But, if guilt is presumed whereas innocence must be proved, the proof falls short of absolute. Raffaele's computer could have run a script to download and play videos while he was gone. That is what the prosecutor says, and the court system agrees.

Under this unlikely scenario would the time 9 26 be specifically chosen with key strokes?
Also I thought it was ruled out, in that the movie was not downloaded, but watched.
Nencini allowed for an alibi till about 9 20pm according to an early translation by Luca I thought.

 

[Kauffer]

Computer alibi

Under this unlikely scenario would the time 9 26 be specifically chosen with key strokes?
Also I thought it was ruled out, in that the movie was not downloaded, but watched.
Nencini allowed for an alibi till about 9 20pm according to an early translation by Luca I thought.

Yes Nencini does. My understanding was as I think Charlie has alluded to that despite what the court says and what the possibilities are, there is no actual cast iron proof that there was any human interaction with the MacBook after popovich left and after Pere Sollecito called. But then I read about the alleged tampering with the files to disguise access times and got interested in the subject.

 

[Dan O.]

Here is a post from PMF

And there is more .
I notice no reference is given to the system whether or not it was set to automatically update (network time) or if it was even in the correct time zone.

The fact that some files were opened and later modified only goes to show that they were being used in P2P applications aMule & Azureus.. there are no logs to suggest these files were opened in any viewing application.

There is a screen shot of spotlight showing file attributes for "Naruto ep 101.avi" - the file name is truncated in the screen shot..
Note the file size is reported as 261.6MB - no evidence of how big this file was on the 1-2 Nov.
261MB seem rather small for a video file that is 25 minutes long.
The file was last opened on 9.26 pm 1 November 2007 by aMule.
Last modified on 6 Nov

This suggests to me that Naruto was still being downloaded, and that why there is a modification date of 6 Nov (file was closed when computer shutdown)
No evidence there was any human interaction at all.

Because this is obviously crucial to the defence, is there anything to argue here? My only observation is 261 meg looks about right, better quality than youtube for example.

Why do you pay attention to the wild speculations of the patrons of a site known to be inhabited by idiots, many of whom have already been banned from participating here? Your forwarding of their arguments may be a violation of the membership agreement.

Checking that the clock was properly set is a task that the postal police needed to perform. It could still be sorted if an independent were assigned to review this evidence as the defenses requested. Mac OS X inherited the Network Time Protocol from it's unix roots. This option I believe is enabled by default so the time is automatically kept updated as long as there is a network connection. It is still possible to check the settings of the config files and see the time corrections in the log files by analyzing the Encase backup that was created.

In the defense consultants report the full name of the Naruto file is provided. There is no indication of this being a temporary file that hasn't finished downloading. Typically the downloading files will be given an altered name or placed in a temporary location until the download is complete. This is to prevent the partial file from inadvertently being opened. Again, the behavior of aMule Can be investigated to confirm this.

While the defense suggested that the computer evidence provides additional alibies over that which the postal police found, the real goal of the defense presentation was to discredit the postal police findings and ask for an independent analysis.

 

[Numbers]

Excerpts from:
ECtHR finds Italy guilty of degrading treatment without adequate judicial remedy in mass prison beatings case {analysis of Saba v Italy}

http://www.statewatch.org/analyses/no-251-italy-prisons-final.pdf

ECtHR jurisprudence has already found that treatment applied with premeditation for some hours, causing either bodily injuries or physical and mental suffering, can be deemed “inhuman”, whereas “degrading” treatment is liable to result in feelings of fear, anguish and inferiority capable of humiliating, degrading and possibly breaking a person’s moral or physical resistance or of making them act against their will or conscience. To establish if ill-treatment should be treated as “torture”, its difference from “inhuman” or “degrading” treatment must be assessed.

The applicant was not subjected to physical violence and, although the treatment in question was deliberate, its duration was not such as to enable its classification as psychological torture. Yet, its purpose was to degrade and humiliate in a context of strong emotional tension that may have led detainees to legitimately fear for their fate.

As for Article 3’s procedural aspect, the Court considered that ill-treatment deliberately inflicted by agents of the state contravening Article 3 must be investigated in a detailed and effective manner by the internal authorities to identify and punish those responsible. Key criteria to gauge the effectiveness of the investigation include the speed with which it is initiated and conducted, the criminal charges it gives rise to, including sanctions issued and disciplinary measures that are taken. Such elements are deemed “essential” in order to ensure that the judicial system plays a dissuasive role.

 

[Bill Williams]

The computer logs show that someone watched a movie and then this Japanese cartoon on Raffaele's laptop. But, if guilt is presumed whereas innocence must be proved, the proof falls short of absolute. Raffaele's computer could have run a script to download and play videos while he was gone. That is what the prosecutor says, and the court system agrees.

So, if I read you right, that speaks to premeditation. No wonder they had to ditch the Massei verdict along with the Hellmann verdict. Judge Massei does not find premeditation.

Then again, if Raffaele goes to all the trouble to run videos while he is gone, he must be aware at some point in the future, before committing any crime whatsoever, that he intends something for which he'll need an alibi.

This raises an intriguing thing about Nencini's motivations report. Is Nencini arguing premeditation? I do not think so. For instance, Nencini argues that Raffaele's kitchen knife ends up at the cottage because of a normal exchange of cutlery and cooking implements between the two residences.

So, it sounds like Nencini is arguing that the kitchen knife just happened to be at the cottage when the fight over rent money escalated.

So - a script had been written to auto-run those videos. I suppose that Raffaele erased the script, which for normal erasing is actually only erasing the specifics of it on the File Allocation Table - the guts of the script would still be in sectors on the harddrive, for possible reassemble forensicly.

This is the problem with the Pro-guilt lobby, who seem to need to constantly reinvent this crime. When taken osmotically, or even organically, how to account for things like the running of the videos - when presumption of guilt is assumed.

 

[Ampulla of Vater]

Here is a post from PMF

And there is more .
I notice no reference is given to the system whether or not it was set to automatically update (network time) or if it was even in the correct time zone.

The fact that some files were opened and later modified only goes to show that they were being used in P2P applications aMule & Azureus.. there are no logs to suggest these files were opened in any viewing application.

There is a screen shot of spotlight showing file attributes for "Naruto ep 101.avi" - the file name is truncated in the screen shot..
Note the file size is reported as 261.6MB - no evidence of how big this file was on the 1-2 Nov.
261MB seem rather small for a video file that is 25 minutes long.
The file was last opened on 9.26 pm 1 November 2007 by aMule.
Last modified on 6 Nov

This suggests to me that Naruto was still being downloaded, and that why there is a modification date of 6 Nov (file was closed when computer shutdown)
No evidence there was any human interaction at all.

Because this is obviously crucial to the defence, is there anything to argue here? My only observation is 261 meg looks about right, better quality than youtube for example.

If I wanted to read their stupid assertions, I would go there and read them. As it is, I do not care what those hate-mongers say about anything. They clearly do not want to discuss any evidence in a civil manner or they wouldn't ban everyone who attempts a conversation.

 

[Samson]

Why do you pay attention to the wild speculations of the patrons of a site known to be inhabited by idiots, many of whom have already been banned from participating here? Your forwarding of their arguments may be a violation of the membership agreement.

Checking that the clock was properly set is a task that the postal police needed to perform. It could still be sorted if an independent were assigned to review this evidence as the defenses requested. Mac OS X inherited the Network Time Protocol from it's unix roots. This option I believe is enabled by default so the time is automatically kept updated as long as there is a network connection. It is still possible to check the settings of the config files and see the time corrections in the log files by analyzing the Encase backup that was created.

In the defense consultants report the full name of the Naruto file is provided. There is no indication of this being a temporary file that hasn't finished downloading. Typically the downloading files will be given an altered name or placed in a temporary location until the download is complete. This is to prevent the partial file from inadvertently being opened. Again, the behavior of aMule Can be investigated to confirm this.

While the defense suggested that the computer evidence provides additional alibies over that which the postal police found, the real goal of the defense presentation was to discredit the postal police findings and ask for an independent analysis.

Many of them read here and IIP so can see their arguments debunked. It is not possible to counter their statements there because they ban people who do. If it is against a membership agreement to discuss ideas from outside this forum the whole business is a waste of time. Machine is on the most aggressive twitter campagne in history broadcasting complete falsehoods to every journalist and his dog, which may just make him look ridiculous, but on the other hand the lies about the drug dealing are known to have worked against Amanda in public perception.

 

[Machiavelli]

Here is a post from PMF

And there is more .
I notice no reference is given to the system whether or not it was set to automatically update (network time) or if it was even in the correct time zone.

The fact that some files were opened and later modified only goes to show that they were being used in P2P applications aMule & Azureus.. there are no logs to suggest these files were opened in any viewing application.

There is a screen shot of spotlight showing file attributes for "Naruto ep 101.avi" - the file name is truncated in the screen shot..
Note the file size is reported as 261.6MB - no evidence of how big this file was on the 1-2 Nov.
261MB seem rather small for a video file that is 25 minutes long.
The file was last opened on 9.26 pm 1 November 2007 by aMule.
Last modified on 6 Nov

This suggests to me that Naruto was still being downloaded, and that why there is a modification date of 6 Nov (file was closed when computer shutdown)
No evidence there was any human interaction at all.

Because this is obviously crucial to the defence, is there anything to argue here? My only observation is 261 meg looks about right, better quality than youtube for example.

The Naruto file actually doesn't exist among the defence arguments. That was in only in a second defence report that was presented only on appeal and was not accepted.

 

[Numbers]

The Naruto file actually doesn't exist among the defence arguments. That was in only in a second defence report that was presented only on appeal and was not accepted.

If this is correct, the rejection of the defense evidence by the appeal court is another example of arbitrary prejudice against the defense (that is, in the ECHR sense, failure to allow equality of arms), IMO.

 

[Charlie Wilkes]

Under this unlikely scenario would the time 9 26 be specifically chosen with key strokes?
Also I thought it was ruled out, in that the movie was not downloaded, but watched.
Nencini allowed for an alibi till about 9 20pm according to an early translation by Luca I thought.

Ah, but even I could write a script to download and play a movie at a certain hour. My laptop could do this while I was out helping a stranger murder some friendly acquaintance, for no reason, using the biggest knife in my kitchen drawer, after which I could slide up and down the corridor on a bathmat. E 'possibile...

 

[Diocletus]

The Naruto file actually doesn't exist among the defence arguments. That was in only in a second defence report that was presented only on appeal and was not accepted.

So Nencini just makes up the "9:20" computer interaction? I mean it's possible, because he made up all kinds of otherwise wrong stuff, but not something like that.

 

[Kauffer]

Naruto

The Naruto file actually doesn't exist among the defence arguments. That was in only in a second defence report that was presented only on appeal and was not accepted.

Didn't Crini accept it? Doesn't Nencini sort of accept it - as in "around 9:20 pm" - at least the start of it at 9:26?? Presumably the idea was that they set the thing off and then went out a raping and a murdering without watching it. Despite the fact that Ms Kercher was already dead.

 

[Machiavelli]

Didn't Crini accept it? Doesn't Nencini sort of accept it - as in "around 9:20 pm" - at least the start of it at 9:26?? Presumably the idea was that they set the thing off and then went out a raping and a murdering without watching it. Despite the fact that Ms Kercher was already dead.

As far as I know the Nencini court refused the report just like Hellmann did. Crini mentioned the claim because he said he wouldn't have consequence on the accusation scenario even if it was found true. But I was never accepted as true by any court. It was never discussed, it equates to a rumor.

 

[Machiavelli]

Ah, but even I could write a script to download and play a movie at a certain hour. My laptop could do this while I was out helping a stranger murder some friendly acquaintance, for no reason, using the biggest knife in my kitchen drawer, after which I could slide up and down the corridor on a bathmat. E 'possibile...

Well P2P programs have scripts that start downloads automatically.You don't have to invent one.

 

[Kauffer]

As far as I know the Nencini court refused the report just like Hellmann did. Crini mentioned the claim because he said he wouldn't have consequence on the accusation scenario even if it was found true. But I was never accepted as true by any court. It was never discussed, it equates to a rumor.

So where does 9:20 come from in the Nencini report? What is the significance of this time? From where, if not Naruto, is it derived?

 

[Machiavelli]

Yes, thank you, that's me. I tend to believe Mario Spezi and Douglas Preston. They seem like diligent responsible trustworthy journalists. Perhaps I'm naive.

Mach, I don't think you responded to my question about Carlizzi coming to Perugia within days of the Kercher murder, as Preston/Spezi reported in their book, 'The Monster of Florence'.

If Mignini wanted nothing to do with Carlizzi, then why did he meet with her in Perugia within days of the Kercher killing? (Thank you for the Carlizzi articles you pointed me to, they were informative, I had heard Mignini had had Carlizzi arrested, and I was and am curious to know more about that).

Also, was Carllizzi featured on Italian TV shows, and allowed to comment on the MOnster of Florence crimes and other cases? Are Psychics generally considered legitimate sources of "news" in Italy?

Carlizzi used to jump in every high profile murder or 'mystery' claiming she had insights and information. I wouldn't be surprised if he travelled immediately to Perugia, since this is what she would always do. I wouldn't even rule out that she tried to contact the Procura saying she wanted to be heard and help the investigation, because this is what she always tried to do.
Obviously she did not give advice to Mignini. The last time she had tried to do so, as I pointed out, Mignini arrested her.