Should New Zealand Change its flag?

[angrysoba]

NZ PM John Key wants NZ to change its flag from the current dark blue one with the union flag in the corner to perhaps one with a silver fern on a black background.

It seems there will be two referendums; one in which a flag design can be chosen and one in which the winner gets to compete against the current flag.

So, tell us what you think. I will set up a poll here so you can vote. There are Kiwi options available too, but the poll is public to prevent cheating and also to reveal my lack of trust in anyone here.

 

[Ray Brady]

I'd say sure. Having another country's flag in your flag just seems... servile.

I think they can do better than the fern, though. Maybe something with Gandalf on it?

 

[angrysoba]

I'd say sure. Having another country's flag in your flag just seems... servile.

I think they can do better than the fern, though. Maybe something with Gandalf on it?

Well, New Zealand still has the Queen as head of state.

But servility is not the only interpretation, is it? After all, do Hawaiians feel like their use of the union flag is servile?

 

[Ginarley]

I'm a kiwi and I definitely say yes, and would happily go for the silver fern on black.

I travelled to Sydney with a friend to go to the A1GP back when that was a thing and we were walking around with flags over our shoulders, mine was the NZ flag and my mates was the silver fern on black. We got pulled up by the roaming media guys and interviewed, thinking it was interesting to see friends one from Aus and one from NZ. They were surprised to see my flag was the NZ one! From that anecdote, the silver fern clearly does the job of a flag better than the actual flag does.

That aside, our national teams all play in black (not blue), our national symbol is the fern not the southern cross, and from a marketing perspective the silver fern is immediately recognisable even now to anyone who knows the country whereas the current flag is not. All told, I really can't see a downside to changing it.

 

[angrysoba]

Good point! You won't look like the Aussies that way!

On the other hand, you may be mistaken for ISIS!

 

[PhantomWolf]

I'm a kiwi and I say no, and especially no to the ugly black with the fern, no way no how, nah uh. It is ugly as a flag, and way to engrained as the national sports emblem.

Anyone that mistakes our flag the Australian one simply isn't actually looking, the Australia one is quite distinctive to ours. For those that are ignorant and don't know the difference, the Australian one has 6 stars, five in the Southern Cross and a large one under the Jack. They stars are also straight white and 8 pointed compared to the New Zealand 5 pointed red with white border stars.

As of yet I have seen no good reason to change it, and really it seems little to me but an attempt to try and move us to be a Republic, something else I totally oppose, who would want President John Key, well besides John Key. ick.

Keep the one we have.

As a total aside, A while back when discussing this topic, I did come up with a design...

 

[Damien Evans]

If they want to, yes.
If they don't want to, no.

 

[angrysoba]

If they want to, yes.
If they don't want to, no.

I realized too late that there was a missing poll option which would have been, "I'm not a Kiwi, so it is not my *********** business". But consider the Planet X option as containing that one.

 

[Pulvinar]

Arrr, maties! Hoist the Jolly Fern!

 

[PhantomWolf]

I think this is going to be a pretty boring poll really, since to my recollection, there are only about 7-8 kiwis on the forum.

 

[arthwollipot]

The fern won't work. As PhantomWolf says, it's too strongly associated with sports to be an effective national flag.

 

[GraculusTheGreenBird]

The fern won't work. As PhantomWolf says, it's too strongly associated with sports to be an effective national flag.

But is associated with the "National" sports emblem, not generic sports. When people see that, they already think New Zealand. So why not extend it?

Its cool, its instantly recognisable, its different.

However, could someone explain how the fern came to be used in the first place? I believe there is a historical and heraldic connection for the English 3 lions emblem, what is the story behind the New Zealand Rugby fern?

 

[PhantomWolf]

But is associated with the "National" sports emblem, not generic sports. When people see that, they already think New Zealand. So why not extend it?

Its cool, its instantly recognisable, its different.

However, could someone explain how the fern came to be used in the first place? I believe there is a historical and heraldic connection for the English 3 lions emblem, what is the story behind the New Zealand Rugby fern?

It started as the emblem of the 1888 NZ Natives Rugby team, and then was adopted by the New Zealand National Team which would become the All Blacks. Since then other sports teams have taken similar ferns as a symbol, but the one you see most often is the All Black one, which also is trademarked by the NZRFU, another reason we shouldn't be using it.

 

[angrysoba]

Isn't it originally the leaf that is presented to foreigners (such as the Pakeha) by Maori when the groups meet, and that the visitor is supposed to pick up?

 

[Charlie Wilkes]

Something like this might work, minus the red slash:

http://www.boundlesstraveler.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/No-SheepF.jpg

 

[PhantomWolf]

Isn't it originally the leaf that is presented to foreigners (such as the Pakeha) by Maori when the groups meet, and that the visitor is supposed to pick up?

Well the plant is a fern, the upper side of which is green, and the underside silver, hence silver fern. And yes it is used in the Maori challenge, though as an emblem the first use was with the 1888 NZ Natives Team.

 

[DarthFishy]

South Africa managed to change our flag and in the process got rid of the Union Jack that was a part of it.

I do think that if you guys (Kiwi's) want to go for it, to go for something that represents more than just your sports teams.

 

[bit_pattern]

The silver fern frond design on a black background is a beautiful design and so totally synonymous with NZ. When you already have something that people automatically associate with the country more than the current flag then it really is a no-brainer IMO

EDIT:

OK I just saw all the replies stating why it can't be used. I should probably read before commenting in future.

 

[PhantomWolf]

South Africa managed to change our flag and in the process got rid of the Union Jack that was a part of it.

I do think that if you guys (Kiwi's) want to go for it, to go for something that represents more than just your sports teams.

They also did it an a fundamental time of change, which included the National Anthem as well, as the Old South Africa and Apartheid was supposed to be left behind and the New South Africa emerged from its ashes.

We're not going through any such changes.

 

[fagin]

Interesting results between Kiwis (proud to be a Kiwi mate) and foreigners.

Seems to worry the foreigners more by a large margin