Steel shipped to China...

[jakesteele]

Maybe a Truther could answer this...

Why is it important to explain that the steel from the World Trade Center was cut into smaller sections and shipped off overseas to China and other foreign countries?

I have read (red) some truther blogs where the explanation is that the steel was shipped off to China RIGHT AWAY! This is not true, of course, because the steel was stored at Fresh Kills landfill on Staten Island for a period of time. Some of the steel was later stored in a hangar that became property of New York and New Jersey Port Authority. (link)

However, there is the question of what happened to the rest of the steel and it's possible that some it might have been recycled, or reused. And yes, a good portion of that steel most likely got shipped overseas...

...SO WHAT?

Because it's evidence to a crime; that simple. You never know for sure until you have sifted through everything. The Govt. could have and should have shipped the stuff off to however many warehouses as needed and then gone through everything with a fine toothed comb.

The speed and relative obscurity of the removal seems suspect to me. Here is a very good explanation about the steel removal,

"Steel was the structural material of the buildings. As such it was the most important evidence to preserve in order to puzzle out how the structures held up to the impacts and fires, but then disintegrated into rubble. Since the collapse of steel-framed skyscrapers due to fires is completely unprecedented, the steel should have been subjected to detailed analysis. So what did the authorities do with this key evidence of the vast crime and unprecedented engineering failure? They recycled it!"
http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/groundzero/cleanup.html

Now, after you get done killing the messenger so you don't have to hear the message you might want to do a little footwork yourself and talk to police, FBI, etc., about forensic methods, techniques and standards, etc. Don't just listen to forums like this as your only source. Study both sides and carefully evaluate on your own. You might come out with the same opinion or not; it doesn't matter.

As to "SO WHAT?", that sounds a lot like Hillary's infamous Bengazhi(sp), "What does it matter, anyway!"

 

[DGM]

Because it's evidence to a crime; that simple. You never know for sure until you have sifted through everything. The Govt. could have and should have shipped the stuff off to however many warehouses as needed and then gone through everything with a fine toothed comb.

The speed and relative obscurity of the removal seems suspect to me. Here is a very good explanation about the steel removal,

"Steel was the structural material of the buildings. As such it was the most important evidence to preserve in order to puzzle out how the structures held up to the impacts and fires, but then disintegrated into rubble. Since the collapse of steel-framed skyscrapers due to fires is completely unprecedented, the steel should have been subjected to detailed analysis. So what did the authorities do with this key evidence of the vast crime and unprecedented engineering failure? They recycled it!"
http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/groundzero/cleanup.html

Now, after you get done killing the messenger so you don't have to hear the message you might want to do a little footwork yourself and talk to police, FBI, etc., about forensic methods, techniques and standards, etc. Don't just listen to forums like this as your only source. Study both sides and carefully evaluate on your own. You might come out with the same opinion or not; it doesn't matter.

As to "SO WHAT?", that sounds a lot like Hillary's infamous Bengazhi(sp), "What does it matter, anyway!"

Is mom not home tonight?

 

[000063]

Because it's evidence to a crime; that simple. You never know for sure until you have sifted through everything. The Govt. could have and should have shipped the stuff off to however many warehouses as needed and then gone through everything with a fine toothed comb.

I'm sorry, do you have any idea how impractical it would be to sift through a skyscraper's worth of steel?

The speed and relative obscurity of the removal seems suspect to me.

appeal to personal incredulity.

Here is a very good explanation about the steel removal,

"Steel was the structural material of the buildings. As such it was the most important evidence to preserve in order to puzzle out how the structures held up to the impacts and fires, but then disintegrated into rubble. Since the collapse of steel-framed skyscrapers due to fires is completely unprecedented, the steel should have been subjected to detailed analysis. So what did the authorities do with this key evidence of the vast crime and unprecedented engineering failure? They recycled it!"
http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/groundzero/cleanup.html

"Most important evidence" based on whose reckoning? Much of the steel was, in fact, examined, often by hand. And, of course, that quote studiously ignores the steel that was given away for memorials and suchlike.

Now, after you get done killing the messenger so you don't have to hear the message

Oh, no, the message was stillborn.

you might want to do a little footwork yourself and talk to police, FBI, etc., about forensic methods, techniques and standards, etc. Don't just listen to forums like this as your only source. Study both sides and carefully evaluate on your own. You might come out with the same opinion or not; it doesn't matter.

I think you're being disingenuous.

As to "SO WHAT?", that sounds a lot like Hillary's infamous Bengazhi(sp), "What does it matter, anyway!"

So what? It's your job to explain and support your argument, not anyone else's. You're trying to divert the burden of proof.

 

[beachnut]

Because it's evidence to a crime; that simple. You never know for sure until you have sifted through everything. The Govt. could have and should have shipped the stuff off to however many warehouses as needed and then gone through everything with a fine toothed comb.

Oops, it was sifted through for human remains first; did 911 truth followers miss it?
And scientists/engineers were able to study the steel.
Did 911 truth cult members read NIST, or FEMA reports on 911 issues? No? Why do they make up BS?

Oh noes, WTC steel... and this bent steel is called melted steel by nuts in 911 truth.
On noes, someone is studying 911 WTC steel, before it was shipped off...

You were joking, or what? or what

The speed and relative obscurity of the removal seems suspect to me. Here is a very good explanation about the steel removal,

Oh YES, 8 months of clean up, way too fast, guess they should have taken 9 months. lol, 8 months is speed and obscurity of removal?
You have to be joking.

"Steel was the structural material of the buildings. As such it was the most important evidence to preserve in order to puzzle out how the structures held up to the impacts and fires, but then disintegrated into rubble. Since the collapse of steel-framed skyscrapers due to fires is completely unprecedented, the steel should have been subjected to detailed analysis. So what did the authorities do with this key evidence of the vast crime and unprecedented engineering failure? They recycled it!"
http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/groundzero/cleanup.html

LOL, posted BS from a 911 truth nut. good job
http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/groundzero/cleanup.html
Wow, 911 truth followers let someone else do their analysis. good for them, it saves time

BTW, the steel was studied, 911 truth followers quote mining a 911 truth idiot; they always find woo, and they post woo - woo whooo

Now, after you get done killing the messenger so you don't have to hear the message you might want to do a little footwork yourself and talk to police, FBI, etc., about forensic methods, techniques and standards, etc. Don't just listen to forums like this as your only source. Study both sides and carefully evaluate on your own. You might come out with the same opinion or not; it doesn't matter.

The reason to study the steel was for building safety, to confirm the WTC was built to code, etc; read NIST. The steel has nothing to do with who did 911. But then 911 truth, the source you quoted, has not clue what reality is. You found woo, you quoted woo,; do you like woo. ??

As to "SO WHAT?", that sounds a lot like Hillary's infamous Bengazhi(sp), "What does it matter, anyway!"

So what? 911 was a terrorist act, the steel had nothing to do with 19 terrorist. The steel was studied to learn about fire and the collapse, had nothing to do with who did 911; your logic is BS, and using Hillary and another terrorist attack is irony at best.

Explain how studying the steel makes an impact on the fact 19 terrorists did 911 in four planes? The terrorists were identified as they did 911, or did you miss it. The steel clean up has nothing to do with who did 911.

Wait, you were joking. Thanks for the typing practice.

 

[Redwood]

Originally Posted by dc1971
Maybe a Truther could answer this...

Why is it important to explain that the steel from the World Trade Center was cut into smaller sections and shipped off overseas to China and other foreign countries?

Because it's evidence to a crime; that simple. You never know for sure until you have sifted through everything. The Govt. could have and should have shipped the stuff off to however many warehouses as needed and then gone through everything with a fine toothed comb.

The crime was the hijacking and deliberate crashing of two jetliners. The result of the crime was the collapse of the Twin Towers, plus the deaths of thousands of people and the destruction or damage to many surrounding builidings. You don't need steel from the towers to prove that. The notion that the towers fell from something other than impact and fire is a years-later conspiracist notion unsupported by any evidence or expert opinion. Indeed, most truthers say they believed, at first, that the towers collapsed because of impact and fire.

Tens of thousands of people, from ordinary volunteers to forensic experts, worked on the cleanup, and not one reported any signs of anything indicating that they fell from anything other than impact and fire.

The fact that a few oddly corroded pieces of steel were saved from the rubble testifies to their diligence. Aside from that, the columns from below the impact and fire all show a common pattern: Floor connections were torn out, sheared off, bent, or otherwise disrupted. The columns broke at their bolt connections or welds from buckling, being no longer laterally supported by the flooring. No signs of anything else. You only need save a few pieces as examples, and more than a few pieces have been saved.

 

[beachnut]

... hijacking multiple planes in multiple parts of a distant country all on a synchronized schedule so as not to be stopped and flying they unmolested in hostile airspace while completing amazing aerial maneuvers? ...

What is the synchronized schedule mean? Airlines have to synchronize their flights to make connecting flights, why is this a "clue" in the 911 truth fantasy version of 911, and how does it play with the "all the steel was shipped to china" failed "clue" used by 911 truth to fool new true believers.

How many months does it take to explain in detail the "amazing aerial maneuvers"? Did you make this up?

 

[DGM]

What is the synchronized schedule mean? Airlines have to synchronize their flights to make connecting flights, why is this a "clue" in the 911 truth fantasy version of 911, and how does it play with the "all the steel was shipped to china" failed "clue" used by 911 truth to fool new true believers.

How many months does it take to explain in detail the "amazing aerial maneuvers"? Did you make this up?

I'm more interested in why he would consider it "hostile airspace". I know there's fierce competition between airlines but..........this sounds extreme.

 

[jaydeehess]

I'm more interested in why he would consider it "hostile airspace". I know there's fierce competition between airlines but..........this sounds extreme.

Well in reality a human being situated more than ten feet off the surface is in a hostile environment. We are basically too fat to fly.

 

[DGM]

Well in reality a human being situated more than ten feet off the surface is in a hostile environment. We are basically too fat to fly.

.....and all this time I thought it was because we're to dense.

 

[Allen773]

Because China is taking AMERICAN jobs, so of course everything else must be their fault...

Oh wait, wrong topic. D'oh!

 

[beachnut]

I'm more interested in why he would consider it "hostile airspace". I know there's fierce competition between airlines but..........this sounds extreme.

Yes I was too: I missed to add the hostile, since on 911 our skies over the USA use to be the safest skies around, no kids in the USAF (;like me) running around in the sky armed with missiles a switch away from being armed.

The only threat in the skies on 911, idiots flying without clearances, X 4.

I want to know how these topics, a few extra Gish Gallops work with China getting the steel faster than free-fall, aka 8 months plus shipping...

 

[swright777]

Yes I was too: I missed to add the hostile, since on 911 our skies over the USA use to be the safest skies around, no kids in the USAF (;like me) running around in the sky armed with missiles a switch away from being armed.

The only threat in the skies on 911, idiots flying without clearances, X 4.

I want to know how these topics, a few extra Gish Gallops work with China getting the steel faster than free-fall, aka 8 months plus shipping...

If I drank coffee you'd owe me a keyboard.

 

[jaydeehess]

.....and all this time I thought it was because we're to dense.

Some are realz more dense than others.

 

[jaydeehess]

Yes I was too: I missed to add the hostile, since on 911 our skies over the USA use to be the safest skies around, no kids in the USAF (;like me) running around in the sky armed with missiles a switch away from being armed.

The only threat in the skies on 911, idiots flying without clearances, X 4.

I want to know how these topics, a few extra Gish Gallops work with China getting the steel faster than free-fall, aka 8 months plus shipping...

Headline:
"China Invents Faster Than Free Fall Shipping"
Purolater and FedEx go out of business.

 

[tHayner]

There are numerous private memorials containing WTC steel as ell

Hello, I hadn't seen this in any of the other posts, but admittedly I skipped some sections of this thread that had drifted off topic.

There are numerous private memorials cut from WTC steel that were discretely (and illegally) distributed among first responders and victims families. While I myself fit into neither of those categories I was given a piece about 10 days after that attacks. I recieved it from a police officer in NJ who I know very well. He was able to obtain 5 pieces, he kept one and distributed the rest among his family and friends. Only 1 shape was available, and that was a steel cross, about 10" tall, 6"wide, and 1/2" thick. No monies were exchanged between any parties.

This is what I was told regarding the chain of custody before I received it:

Vehicles, and other debris needed to be immediately cleared from the streets surrounding ground zero in order to allow site access.

The debris was moved to PAPD holding areas. (way before fresh kills). PAPD officers at the holding area, acting of their own accord, removed steel pieces and sent them to a trusted local metalworker. He cut them into smaller pieces and returned them them to the PAPD officers.

The PAPD officers then began privately distributing the pieces among search and rescue workers who they met at the site and the family of missing first responders.





If I know of 5 pieces I'm guessing that there are hundreds of other small pieces out there, if not thousands.

I don't think that my piece has any value to be tested for explosives. I was only 18 at the time and lived between my parents home and a college dorm, my mom refused to let me bring the piece inside her house and I did not want to have it on campus. So I fashioned it into a small unmarked memorial on a large rock in moms backyard using epoxy, where it still sits today. Given that it was at a metals shop for a few days when it was cut, then mounted with epoxy, and 13 years of weathering, I imagine it could have picked up any number of chemicals that may produce a false positive.

The cop who gave me my piece has his standing vertically, on a 6"x6" wood stand with a small plaque, inside a china cabinet. He simply cut a hole to fit in the stand so that the steel cross would stand up when on display but could be removed from the stand at any time. His might be a little more relevant to testing.

I doubt that these PAPD officers were able to obtain more steel once the feds started locking it down and shipping it off. But there was probably a couple weeks worth of debris that they had access to between the SAR phase and the cleanup/"investigation" phase.

I wouldn't be surprised if there is a pristine piece sitting in a ziploc bag in a safe deposit box somewhere.

 

[Oystein]

tHayner,

interesting! What some here would be most interested in would be steel from the floor joists, and particularly the red primer paint applied to it before delivery to the WTC construction site around 1970.

Would you be able to send us, or post here, photos of your specimen, and even of other pieces that you or your friend know of? When you take pics, it would be helpful to include a yardstick for scale, and take a few measurements (how wide and thick).

I'll look for some images of the floor joists later.

 

[beachnut]

... once the feds started locking it down and shipping it off. ...

The "feds"? "locking it down"? There were no explosives, so why would anyone test for something that did not happen? Do the "feds" test for GSR for a stabbing?
How long did it take to "shipping it off".

 

[tHayner]

Oystein, I have no idea what area of what building it came from. I live in Colorado now so I asked my mom to a pic and send it to me.

beachnut,

I guess by "locked down", what I meant was; fully secured the control of evidence at the ground zero site.

If police showed up to the scene and found a man who had been stabbed, but a neighbor who witnessed the stabbing claimed that they also heard a gunshot during the incident, the police would be obligated to test for gsr

 

[DGM]

tHayner,

interesting! What some here would be most interested in would be steel from the floor joists, and particularly the red primer paint applied to it before delivery to the WTC construction site around 1970.

Not likely. The vast majority of these were from exterior columns that were cut up in haste to gain access to the site. After this many years and the work the metal worker did there is no chance of identifying a paint sample.

tHayner: What was your mothers objection to having this in the house (If you don't mind me asking)?

 

[tHayner]

DGM, I'm not sure if I ever asked her why, but when she first saw it I remember she shivered, said it was ugly, and told me to get it out of the house. I put it in the garage and she made me move it out of sight, (she wouldn't even touch it back then). It was a few months later that I asked her if I could bring it back out and she just said as long as it was outside. The attack had just happened, like last week, I think she was still in shock about the whole thing. She's ok with it now tho.