Continuation Part 10: Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito

[js202]

Really? You could knock me down with a feather, Socrates. There's me thinking that we should be more concerned with jailing the innocent. You always get brilliant, mind-opening stuff on the International Skeptics Forum.

If you would just *once* place a hold on these childish, drive-by insults that seem such a satisfying part of your otherwise meager existence, and actually engage with the evidence of the Kercher murder case, I suspect the matter of who is more or less Socratic would get sorted out rather quickly. But, no, you post like a coward who, deep inside, knows his insufficiency to that task would be exposed in short order.

 

[Supercalifragilistic]

As a skeptic, if you have a set of procedures to stop shenanigans but they actually aid shenanigans, that violates the spirit the rules were written to protect.

This is just banal.

What about if you have "a set of procedures" to nail murderers and they actually accomplish this , does that not vindicate the said procedures?

Much as you'd like your screwed-up "fellow American", fair damsel/juvenile delinquent to "beat the rap", as I think you call it, I'm afraid her nemesis is looming - and this becomes more and more obvious with each passing day ( for those with eyes to see). No amount of sentimental and patriotic huffing and puffing on sites like this will change the situation, though you might find it comforting to be so deluded. Karma is inexorable.

 

[Supercalifragilistic]

If you would just *once* place a hold on these childish, drive-by insults that seem such a satisfying part of your otherwise meager existence, and actually engage with the evidence of the Kercher murder case, I suspect the matter of who is more or less Socratic would get sorted out rather quickly. But, no, you post like a coward who, deep inside, knows his insufficiency to that task would be exposed in short order.

Ha ha, I think you're losing it - which comes as no surprise.

I refer you to all the evidence that's needed, viz:

http://themurderofmeredithkercher.com
http://www.perugiamurderfile.org/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=628#p167076.

You won't read any of this of course, because you have an incestuous social club going here and truth is not high on the agenda. So be it and I hope you find each other comforting. Let me remind you however that incest is never healthy - it often produces deformed and stupid offspring.

 

[Wattson]

This is just banal.

What about if you have "a set of procedures" to nail murderers and they actually accomplish this , does that not vindicate the said procedures?

Much as you'd like your screwed-up "fellow American", fair damsel/juvenile delinquent to "beat the rap", as I think you call it, I'm afraid her nemesis is looming - and this becomes more and more obvious with each passing day ( for those with eyes to see). No amount of sentimental and patriotic huffing and puffing on sites like this will change the situation, though you might find it comforting to be so deluded. Karma is inexorable.

You'd better be careful. This also applies to clowns who advocate for the imprisonment of innocent people.

 

[Samson]

Ha ha, I think you're losing it - which comes as no surprise.

I refer you to all the evidence that's needed, viz:

http://themurderofmeredithkercher.com
http://www.perugiamurderfile.org/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=628#p167076.

You won't read any of this of course, because you have an incestuous social club going here and truth is not high on the agenda. So be it and I hope you find each other comforting. Let me remind you however that incest is never healthy - it often produces deformed and stupid offspring.

In the meantime, could you refer people to a longer blog thread open to all comers on any subject where the concensus has clearly arrived at a wrong conclusion? Any thread, anywhere, any subject.

 

[js202]

Ha ha, I think you're losing it - which comes as no surprise.

I refer you to all the evidence that's needed, viz:

http://themurderofmeredithkercher.com
http://www.perugiamurderfile.org/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=628#p167076.

You won't read any of this of course, because you have an incestuous social club going here and truth is not high on the agenda. So be it and I hope you find each other comforting. Let me remind you however that incest is never healthy - it often produces deformed and stupid offspring.

Just as I thought. You ever read "Michael" of PMF, fame? Now there's an absolute textbook product of inbreeding and poor diet. I suspect you lap up his groundless fantasies like so much pablum.

 

[Desert Fox]

Ha ha, I think you're losing it - which comes as no surprise.

I refer you to all the evidence that's needed, viz:

http://themurderofmeredithkercher.com
http://www.perugiamurderfile.org/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=628#p167076.

You won't read any of this of course, because you have an incestuous social club going here and truth is not high on the agenda. So be it and I hope you find each other comforting. Let me remind you however that incest is never healthy - it often produces deformed and stupid offspring.

I think we have address every point brought up there which is actually not just crazy (and most of them as well) multiple times.

 

[Diocletus]

We covered it in excruciating detail several threads ago. The conclusion was there was a print. Dan knows all about it, as with most things.

I don't know that it was ever identified specifically. However, I do not believe that the candidates showed definite finger forms, i.e., they were palmprints. This is interesting, because Rudy's wound was low on his fingers.

ETA: One of the cuts is actually on his palm.

 

[anglolawyer]

I don't know that it was ever identified specifically. However, I do not believe that the candidates showed definite finger forms, i.e., they were palmprints. This is interesting, because Rudy's wound was low on his fingers.

We were examining pics of the pillow case, as I recall, and got attracted by what looked clearly like a hand print only to discover we were wrong and the print was somewhere else. It was like looking at those ink blots. There is expert testimony about it in the Massei trial I think and an express finding somewhere or other (Micheli?)

 

[Kevin_Lowe]

Ha ha, I think you're losing it - which comes as no surprise.

I refer you to all the evidence that's needed, viz:

http://themurderofmeredithkercher.com
http://www.perugiamurderfile.org/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=628#p167076.

You won't read any of this of course, because you have an incestuous social club going here and truth is not high on the agenda. So be it and I hope you find each other comforting. Let me remind you however that incest is never healthy - it often produces deformed and stupid offspring.

Hi Supercalifragilistic,

Believe it or not, this thread here has been going for a very long time, and not only have we discussed everything raised on those sites, we've had a standing invitation for the people who run those sites to discuss the matter here with us.

They all either fled or committed suicide by moderator, unfortunately, because it turns out that they can only "debate" this topic effectively on sites where they can ban everyone who presents an evidence-based view.

So there's a very meaningful sense in which those sites are extremely incestuous. If you don't believe me, try making up a new account there and arguing for a 9:10 time of death. You'll be shown the door in very short order. The only allowable views on those sites are that Sollecito and Knox definitely did it in exactly the way (some) courts said, or that Sollecito and Knox definitely did it but in some even more horrible way because they are twisted, serial killing, manga-watching, sadistic psychopaths who smell.

This site ended up a little bit incestuous in some sense, but only because the people carrying pro-guilt genes all fled and locked themselves in their own private breeding ground for insanity. We've been trying to lure them out to get a bit of hybrid vigour going but I think they all know they have absolutely no chance at all in an open, rational debate so they stay in their own little rabbit hole breeding amongst themselves.

Call it evolution - the strong arguments survive and take over the major landmasses, the ones that suck retreat to some tiny island somewhere.

 

[Diocletus]

We were examining pics of the pillow case, as I recall, and got attracted by what looked clearly like a hand print only to discover we were wrong and the print was somewhere else. It was like looking at those ink blots. There is expert testimony about it in the Massei trial I think and an express finding somewhere or other (Micheli?)

Go here: http://www.crimetv.com/page/print/magazine/murder-of-meredith-kercher/134

Scroll down to "Guede Trial and Appeal" and you will see a picture labeled as the palm print. I does appear to show three "finger" lines leading into a shape that could be a palm. I can't tell the orientation to tell which hand this is (pillow could have been flipped). No idea how you would ever identify someone with this.

This does not appear inconsistent with the known hand wounds of Guede, if this was the cut hand.

 

[js202]

This site ended up a little bit incestuous in some sense, but only because the people carrying pro-guilt genes all fled and locked themselves in their own private breeding ground for insanity. We've been trying to lure them out to get a bit of hybrid vigour going but I think they all know they have absolutely no chance at all in an open, rational debate so they stay in their own little rabbit hole breeding amongst themselves.

The poor soul is too busy agreeing with the likes of Ergon that Dr. Peter Gill is *naive* to consider your eminently thoughtful and reasonable critique. Such a person is not actually interested in reasoning through this case, but only finding leverage points from which to hurl invective. In short, a stereotypical member of the "internet demographic."

 

[lonepinealex]

I do enjoy these occasional envoys from the Slytherin common room. Reminds me why I should never visit pro-guilt sites.

Diocletus - you are beginning to persuade me of the Rudy-downstairs-theory, though it's all a lot more complicated than I had previously realised, if true. This is such a messed up case!

 

[Chris_Halkides]

misleading comments on Y chromosomal DNA analysis

http://themurderofmeredithkercher.com
http://www.perugiamurderfile.org/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=628#p167076.

You won't read any of this of course, because you have an incestuous social club going here and truth is not high on the agenda. So be it and I hope you find each other comforting. Let me remind you however that incest is never healthy - it often produces deformed and stupid offspring.

Supercalifragilistic,

I have read portions of themurderofmeredithkercher, and what I found were statements about forensics that were either misleading or outright wrong. For example, I explained here several threads ago why their discussion of YSTR results was highly misleading. They also posted a photo of a knife that they had misidentified, to give you a second example. Perhaps you would care to defend their positions in these matters, seeing as you are holding up this "wiki" as a source of supposedly good information.

 

[Diocletus]

Here's something else interesting. Rep. 166a, the sample from Kercher's purse that shows a mixed profile of Guede + Kercher is TMB positive.

 

[MDDVS]

Ha ha, I think you're losing it - which comes as no surprise.

I refer you to all the evidence that's needed, viz:

http://themurderofmeredithkercher.com
http://www.perugiamurderfile.org/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=628#p167076.

You won't read any of this of course, because you have an incestuous social club going here and truth is not high on the agenda. So be it and I hope you find each other comforting. Let me remind you however that incest is never healthy - it often produces deformed and stupid offspring.

I'm not impressed. The arguments for guilt seem to boil down to "because a judge said so".

 

[Machiavelli]

Mach,

What I think you fail to realise is your own arguments defeat you. Because we come from different philosophies.

Stefanoni argues that doing a further test might result in a false negative, but is satisfied to accept a false positive. By doing a further test you gain further information, you do not lose knowledge of the Luminol test. Stefanoni and by implication the Italian prosecutorial system prefer lack of information because it gives freedom to formulate theories. Given the result of the Luminol test one can say there is a Luminol positive stain this might be blood. Given a TMB negative result, one can say this might be blood but most likely is not. Knowledge is gained not lost.

Actually, our difference seems to me not much of philosophies, but in the assessment of a few things of merit.

A point that seems important to me, is that in reality a TMB negative test adds no information at all to the luminol test.

Luminol test is more specific than TMB, by far more sensitive, it is direct instead of requiring a dilution on swab (thus TMB causes even further dilution), while luminol and TMB react to the same array of false positives (exactly the same kind of substances).
Under any point of view the luminol test is better. It is much more difficult to perform, not good for items and more expensive.

Based on these (relatively recent) findings, I say it is wrong to expect that a TMB test would add information after a positive luminol test. I think no knowledge is gained.
That "most likely is not" is an absolutely false statement. TMB coming out positive or negative doesn't change the balance of probability.

PS were the defence experts present for the series of further tests carried out?

I don't know. Only Prof. Potenza used to come to assist to laboratory work, but I don't know if he came for the corridoor samples analysis.

 

[anglolawyer]

Go here: http://www.crimetv.com/page/print/magazine/murder-of-meredith-kercher/134

Scroll down to "Guede Trial and Appeal" and you will see a picture labeled as the palm print. I does appear to show three "finger" lines leading into a shape that could be a palm. I can't tell the orientation to tell which hand this is (pillow could have been flipped). No idea how you would ever identify someone with this.

This does not appear inconsistent with the known hand wounds of Guede, if this was the cut hand.

Oh gawd. Somewhere in these threads we have the pictures, like the actual, high-def crime scene pics of the pillow case, accompanied by pages of finger-pointing saying: it's that blob there, no it isn't its that one there ... I have no idea how to search for such things but I assure you we have it. Dan is torturing us by not taking us there.

 

[Numbers]

This image is that of a spread sheet table detailing some of the issues known (pointed out by others) with the forensic police DNA results.

 

[Numbers]

This image is the second (and currently last) part of the spreadsheet table showing some of the issues with the forensic police DNA results.