Continuation Part 10: Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito

[Diocletus]

Hey Diocletus,
At 18:46:41 of that same video,
I see what looks like a towel on the ground, some camoflauge pants, those boxer briefs and a shirt, all strewn. Your thoughts?

Does Dr. Stef say that all of these are pillow cases?
Or just CSM #4?


Gotta run,
I'll check back l8r.
Have a good one!
RW

OK, I'll watch this a little later.

She has only CSM #4 as a pillow.

 

[Desert Fox]

Here is a YouTube video link to some comments from TJ Walker about an interview of Amanda Knox. Not everyone seems to agree with Mr. Walker. Here is a comment from one Eric Paroissien: "The reason why lie detection techniques don't work is because she could very well be sincerely crying about her fear to go back to jail while asked if she feels for Meredith Kercher, associating those two spaces is a muscle training. A 9 year old could do that."

I tend to think the whole body language thing is a wash. I put no stock in it as evidence of innocence or guilt. If she was the kind of person that the prosecution and judges seem to argue she is, I would expect some previous history of it. There is nothing like that however.

 

[Numbers]

Correction: it was claimed that this was where the DNA was found but the sample was negligently or deliberately destroyed. The person making the claim is known to be incompetent and a liar. I wish people would not keep forgetting this.

Correction: The person making the claim is known to appear to be incompetent and is a liar.

My view is that the appearance of incompetence is favored in Italy compared to the alternative of the appearance of official misconduct, since official misconduct or abuse of power might be a punishable offense. Thus, incompetence or the appearance of same becomes a cultural norm among corrupt officials.

 

[RWVBWL]

Greetings again!
I've got a few free minutes again,
and I'd like to bring up something,
something about an old dark colored car, a Peugeot.

Years ago,
I'd read of a dark colored car spotted near the driveway of the House of Horrors,
on the night of Nov. 1, 2007, the night Meredith was raped and murdered.

MichaelB and others have told me this was a car belonging to friends of the folks whose car broke down, whom the tow truck driver came out to fix. The tow truck driver stated that he saw it, it had old license plates, IIRC.

I recall reading that the occupants of the broken down car saw nothing going on,
it was all quiet at Meredith's flat when they were parked there broken down across the street.

BUT I also recall reading of other blog posts on old Perugia Shock,
which I guess made me always wonder of the dark car scenario,
and what, if anything, it meant:

Monday, November 24, 2008
Testimony Fever
Fund rising in Seattle, witness rising in Perugia

The one who saw the Peugeot in the garden is reliable: he's sure that it was in the morning of November 2 because he remembers that right after the police arrived.
<snip>
Rudy asked the Albanian his car, predicting that he had to transport the body together with the others. And indeed he had an old dark car already in the evening of 31st, when the mechanic saw it --for sure-- outside the gate. That old car was the same old Peugeot that was in the garden in the morning of the 2nd, ready to take the body away. But the body was too complicated to be taken so they where happy with just the cell phones. They drove away and they toss them, directly from the car, in Lana's garden.

Link:
http://web.archive.org/web/20101015182544/http://perugia-shock.blogspot.com/2008_11_01_archive.html


I've read of this a few times now,
that a old dark colored Peugeot was seen in the garden,
(I assume this being the diveway+parking area of the apartment)
in the morning hours of Nov. 2, 20087, before the cops arrived.

This seems interesting,
for didn't Rudy's buddy Kokomani drive a dark colored Peugeot?
Strange that the witness, whomever she or he is, didn't say the car they saw was a Dodge, or an Audi, or a Mercedes. Just an old dark colored Peugeot.

Anyone know anything about this?
Almost makes it seem like someone mighta wanted to use that probable shower curtain, seen on the kitchen floor near the door of the downstairs apartment, to wrap up Meredith's body so as to conceal her + load her into the trunk of an old car.
But what do I know?...
RW

 

[Desert Fox]

This seems interesting,
for didn't Rudy's buddy Kokomani drive a dark colored Peugeot?
Strange that the witness, whomever she or he is, didn't say the car they saw was a Dodge, or an Audi, or a Mercedes. Just an old dark colored Peugeot.
RW

Due to how small the bedroom is, I don't think more than two people could be in the bedroom without leaving significant evidence of their involvement. Do not forget that the room is further congested by a bed, a clothing storage unit, and a desk.

 

[Numbers]

Hi Diocletus,
Sure,
here you go:
[qimg]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=480&pictureid=9216[/qimg]

Underwear.
Guys, we've all worn 'em, right?
I've worn tighty whitey's, and in colors too, before.
I've worn boxer briefs, in white and colors before.
And I've worn boxers also.

Pictured above, lying on the floor, are boxer briefs, in my humble opinion.
Note the length of the briefs + the different color elastic on the legs openings
There is a buncha blood, not just drops on them, seen above the year 2007, at Crime Scene Marker #4,
They were found on the floor in the living room, to the left of the tv when you sit in the chair, facing it.
Watch the video, it shows the blood better, or tilt your computer screen back+forth...

What do you think?
Blue boxer briefs?
Whose are they?



PS-I'm gonna re-edit my long post above this 1 right now,
and I'll add the time stamps on each of the Crime Scene Markers that I mentioned above,
anyone can then find the scenes quicker if you are so inclined to watch it...
RW

This fabric article looks more like boxer shorts than a pillow to me...but I'm not absolutely sure.

I'm wondering about Guede's mode of entry downstairs (assuming he did enter) and whether he could have come in through the window with the blood stain on the sill, but left through the door, after washing up/changing into "borrowed" clothes perhaps. Any thoughts on this?

 

[Diocletus]

This fabric article looks more like boxer shorts than a pillow to me...but I'm not absolutely sure.

I'm wondering about Guede's mode of entry downstairs (assuming he did enter) and whether he could have come in through the window with the blood stain on the sill, but left through the door, after washing up/changing into "borrowed" clothes perhaps. Any thoughts on this?

Not sure. Frankly, after watching the first video, I'm wondering if the blood is from zugarini who almost severed her Achilles kicking in the window. And they still couldn't open the door.

 

[carbonjam72]

This fabric article looks more like boxer shorts than a pillow to me...but I'm not absolutely sure.

I'm wondering about Guede's mode of entry downstairs (assuming he did enter) and whether he could have come in through the window with the blood stain on the sill, but left through the door, after washing up/changing into "borrowed" clothes perhaps. Any thoughts on this?

I thought Meredith's keys were never found? Were downstairs boyfriends keys found? Could Rudy have used the boyfriend's keys to enter through the door downstairs?

(Hellman concluded Rudy took Merdith's keys because the front door upstairs could only be opened with keys from the inside because the lock was broken. I wonder, Had the landlord fixed the front door lock, Rudy might have been able to leave without needing to confront Meredith over the keys to the front door? - Similar to the Christian Traman?? incident)

 

[RWVBWL]

Not sure. Frankly, after watching the first video, I'm wondering if the blood is from zugarini who almost severed her Achilles kicking in the window. And they still couldn't open the door.

I wouldn't be surprised if those were boxer briefs and Zuga was wearin' 'em!!!
Heck, I'm sure some of my G+L friends would agree, hehehe.

Kidding aside,
when I look at the Large Crime Scene Markers, especially #5 from downstairs, which sits on top of the comfy chair in front of the tv, well to size the markers up, I seem to envision them only being about a size of when my thumbs connect each other, with my palms goin' vert, + my middle fingers connectin' to make a boxy shape. What do you think?

If so, the size of whatever it is that Marker #4 is showing,
well it ain't that big. Heck it'd easily fit on the waist size of a young athletic dude like Rudy, in my humble opinion.

The item seems,
as far as I can tell, much too small to be a pillow case.

But what about the other items?

1 looks like a towel tossed on the floor,
1 looks like some camo's, (either pants or a jacket, which I saw an old guy wearin', totally decked out in both when I was shopping at Smart+Final an hour ago), and the last item, farther away, is what, a shirt or a pillow case?

But if #4 is bloodied underwear?
Hmmmm...
RW


PS - By the Way Diocletus,
I saw you havin' fun with Mikey and crew at the original PMF!
Thanks to Michael, aka Fulcanelli, for allowing a different voice to be heard! And not givin' you the boot!

Too bad E doesn't care to think about the cats blood issue downstairs, for it seems like some of it is indeed from Meredith. So how did it get there?

 

[Machiavelli]

Correction: it was claimed that this was where the DNA was found but the sample was negligently or deliberately destroyed. The person making the claim is known to be incompetent and a liar. I wish people would not keep forgetting this.

It's not worth to forget that Conti and Vecchiotti were instead those shown to be obviously frudulent.
And that those who claim Stefanoni was incompetent and a liar were shown (also on this forum) that their idea is totally devoid of factial basis. (not differently than when they were claiming that Chiriboga stated that nobody entered Quintavalle's shop).

 

[Diocletus]

It's not worth to forget that Conti and Vecchiotti were instead those shown to be obviously frudulent.).

Dang it. Will somebody once and for all give me a clear explanation of how/where/when C&V committed fraud or whatever it was???

 

[Machiavelli]

(...)

Lab Tech Stefanoni also lied about there never being contamination in her lab. Contamination was evident in the records she did turn over to the defense.

Patrizia Stefanoni is a Molecular Biologist, and has worked 8 years at the Naples Federico II University as an assistent professor.

Intentional storage of the bra clasp within a sealed tube containing extraction fluid, resulting in certain degradation of the DNA on the clasps, thus preventing any retesting while the trial stages continue: that is absolute proof of bad faith by the forensic police and prosecution, IMO.

The highlited part is the only relevant content. The rest is in accordance with the law.

Refusal to provide the best evidence documenting the results of the DNA profiling - that is, the electronic data files, which have the potential to show contamination at the LCN level, not necessarily observable in the paper profiles, is another example of bad faith by the forensic police and prosecution.

There was no refusal to provide electronic data files.
It's all well documented. The pro-Knoxes will never get tired of making up facts and laws.

 

[acbytesla]

It's not worth to forget that Conti and Vecchiotti were instead those shown to be obviously frudulent.
And that those who claim Stefanoni was incompetent and a liar were shown (also on this forum) that their idea is totally devoid of factial basis. (not differently than when they were claiming that Chiriboga stated that nobody entered Quintavalle's shop).

Just because you say it, doesn't make it so.

I'm thoroughly convinced that Stefanoni lied several times. She lied about that her lab had never had contamination issues. She lied about the Luminol footprints and the presence of blood and she lied about the controls. What's more she did everything in her power to hide her results. This is obvious because of her continued refusal to provide the EDFs. It's worth noting that not a single sample of DNA that might incriminate Amanda or Raffaele was available for retesting. That no one including Stefanoni was able to confirm her results.

 

[Machiavelli]

Here is a YouTube video link to some comments from TJ Walker about an interview of Amanda Knox. Not everyone seems to agree with Mr. Walker. Here is a comment from one Eric Paroissien: "The reason why lie detection techniques don't work is because she could very well be sincerely crying about her fear to go back to jail while asked if she feels for Meredith Kercher, associating those two spaces is a muscle training. A 9 year old could do that."

This is the basis of the actor's work. However lie detection works, insofar it seeks incongruence.
Body language is part of a text; and there is usually actually a broader text, where you can posssibly detect systematic inconsistence.

 

[RWVBWL]

Machiavelli,
How are ya?!?

Did you ever get a chance to listen to what that female investigator was laughing about
while the video camera filmed Meredith's blood soaking into her floor?

Question for you,
Do you think that photo I posted earlier today is a pair of underwear, or a pillow case?

I can sense that C+V and The Hellmann Court still bother,
what happened so that your judicial system allowed 2 convicted murders, in your eyes I'm sure,
to escape a prison sentence and be set free? How the heck could this happen?

Does it just bother the heck outta you every day now because Raffaele is free to roam his country,
go on a date, or head to the beach?

Why didn't The Nenci Court, or whatever his name is,
demand that Raffaele Sollecito be returned to prison when he overturned The Hellmann Court ,
which set Raff free? Isn't Raffaele, a convicted murderer, a danger to your Society?

Just wondering here in Los Angeles as I look at
and edit some bitchin' surfpix from the wave riders of L.A.
I'm off work, so I'm headin' out to get drunk with some cute gals I know,
have a great rest of your day!
RW

 

[Diocletus]

Body language is part of a text; and there is usually actually a broader text, where you can posssibly detect systematic inconsistence.

That's true. I've studied Italian judges very closely and I've detected systemic incontinence.

 

[Desert Fox]

I know many here are also on the Injustice Forum but thought I would post this here as well.
Wrongful convictions are systemic ills, not acts of one person alone.
http://www.bostonglobe.com/opinion/...erson-alone/leAXka5gIr7HnKsdKtyzJP/story.html

 

[Desert Fox]

This is the basis of the actor's work. However lie detection works, insofar it seeks incongruence.
Body language is part of a text; and there is usually actually a broader text, where you can posssibly detect systematic inconsistence.

I thought I would post this which indicates that lie detection is effectively no better than chance by looking at body language
http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/spycatcher/201203/the-truth-about-lie-detection

 

[Machiavelli]

ust because you say it, doesn't make it so.

I'm thoroughly convinced that Stefanoni lied several times. She lied about that her lab had never had contamination issues.

Bah. Quote please. (If you manage to quote, then prove it false)

She lied about the Luminol footprints and the presence of blood

Where? There isn't a single false statement from Stefanoni about luminol footprints. And there isn't any false statement about blood.

and she lied about the controls.

Total bs. It was Vecchiotti here who was dramatically caught lying.

What's more she did everything in her power to hide her results.
This is obvious because of her continued refusal to provide the EDFs.

It's ridiculous, your mind makes up now on this as a habit. On May 20. 2011 Vecchiotti and Conti themselves stated - before Hellmann - that the police lab had sent them all the data they had requested, and they praised their "complete cooperation". Vecchiotti also repeated on Oct. 30 2011 Stefanoni was "correct and cooperative". There isn't a single refusal of a request from Stefanoni in the record.
It's the simple truth.

What is true is Stefanoni made DNA tests under the incidente probatorio statute, the defence expert was there, but nobody objected about lack of negative controls and nobody came to ask for electronic data.
There wasn't any request about EDF from the defence for two years. The requests the defence made at the preliminary hearing were promptly satisfied, as Bongiorno admits. The first time a request of electronic raw data was made was at the end of the Massei trial from Dalla Vedova, and was unintellegible. That was the first mention, oral and not understood by the judge, and was not repeated. No instance was submitted again.

It's worth noting that not a single sample of DNA that might incriminate Amanda or Raffaele was available for retesting.

I don't know what you mean with such statement. The bra clasp DNA sample was amplified more than once, and yielded two sequences each time (includes the Y haplotype).
The tests were done under the procedure known as incidente probatorio, art. 360 of the Code, that qualifies a test as a non-repeatable event.

 

[Chris_Halkides]

Where is the evidence?

Patrizia Stefanoni is a Molecular Biologist, and has worked 8 years at the Naples Federico II University as an assistent professor.

Prove it.