Continuation Part 10: Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito

[acbytesla]

Obviously - ericp doesn’t know RG is a black African.
& he has failed to understand that a pweety white American and her unidirectional alibi could ever ever be guilty of murder.
That’s the kind of thing blacks/drifters do.

Golly!

I am beginning to think that ericp has missed the whole thrust of the groupie argument.

As if this has anything to do with color. That's absurd. Eric and you should keep in mind the following.

There are no shoe prints in Meredith's blood that belong to Amanda or Raffaele. There are a dozen that match the shoes of Rudy G.

There is no DNA of Raffaele inside Meredith's vagina. There is DNA that was found there that matched Rudy G.

There is no trace whatsoever of Amanda Knox in Meredith's bedroom despite living in the room next door. There are a half a dozen shoe prints that match Rudy G. There are multiple samples of Rudy's DNA and there is a palm print of Rudy's in Meredith's blood.

Rudy G admitted on a Skype call that he was on the toilet when Meredtih's killer came into the cottage and Rudy tussled with him and the killer left, leaving no trace. Rudy also said that Amanda and Raffaele WERE NOT THERE.

Rudy G fled the country demonstrating consciousness of guilt despite the fact that no one was looking for him.

Rudy G. was arrested only days before the break in at the cottage having broken into the nursery in Milan and was convicted of possessing stolen property from a burglary that took place only a couple of blocks from his home in Perugia....(Rudy said he bought the laptop in Milan)

The idea that Rudy was convicted because he was black is downright absurd. Oh btw, there is not one single call, or text ever between Rudy and Amanda/Raffaele EVER. Doesn't sound like co-conspirators to me.

 

[Desert Fox]

Something of interest I just read on "The Wrong Guys" page 200

This is from Larry McCann, former Virginia State Police Officer and expert of crime scene investigation. He states that an attacker can use a combination of choking and slight knife jabs to control a victim.

Believe I have read that Meredeth had a number of minor stab wounds. If I remembering correctly, might have been Guede controlling her.

 

[Diocletus]

I think the bottom line on the downstairs crime scene is that it was no problem to have a mess down there if the perp belonged downstairs (as they thought when they were collecting the samples downstairs), but, it was a problem as soon as it required someone to have broken in to make the mess downstairs, because if there's a breakin downstairs, then there could have been one upstairs. And the possibility of an upstairs breakin is fatal to the case against Knox and Sollecito.

 

[Dan O.]

In the Youtube link Machiavelli offered on RG's testimony, it's almost as if he said to the judge, "i never named them, you did and i didn't deny it." He won't assertively point the finger at AK and RS but he won't absolve them either.

Do you believe that Rudy Guede wrote the letter that Mignini read in court while Rudy sat silently in the witness chair, the letter that includes the statement:

“a horrible murder of the wonderful marvelous girl that was Meredith by Raffaele Sollecito and Amanda Knox”​

?


BTW, welcome to the new International Skeptics forum.

 

[Samson]

Here is a new PMF post to decipher.

I think, and always have, that there's ****loads that LE and the courts know that has not come out.

 

[Desert Fox]

Here is a new PMF post to decipher.

I think, and always have, that there's ****loads that LE and the courts know that has not come out.

Until and unless it is shown, it si not evidence. Idiots.

 

[RWVBWL]

Greetings,
I re-read this passage from Murder in Italy the other day:

WHY didn't Meredith answer her phone?
That was the question her friends and family would be asking all day.
For Robyn Butterworth, the worrying had begun at 10:00 A.M. Meredith had not shown up for class. Even though it turned out to have been cancelled, Robyn still waited for her friend to appear. She didn't want to nag her about the book, but it was new and expensive and she needed it back so she could study for the exam.
"I didn't worry too much at first because, to be honest, Meredith was always late." she said. "We texted each other, never called. But after a while I started getting nervous. I called. Then I called again. I kept calling."
Meredith never did pick up.

I asked this question on IA the other day, but not everyone reads the site there.
I would like to see a comparison between Amanda's concerned cell phone calls to Meredith
versus Robyn's call to Meredith the day she was found dead.

I can not seem to find much info on any phone calls from Robyn to Meredith at around 10:00am that day on Nov. 2, 2007, it seems Amanda's call at 12:11:02 was the 1st that day.

It seems there might be a couple made from Robyn to Meredith when I looked at The Massei Report in pages 326-329 or so, but I can't be sure.

As much was made of the apparent shortness of Amada's concerned calls to Meredith, well I'd like to read of how many concerned calls did Meredith's close English friend Robyn place to Meredith that day, the times she did call, and how long they lasted.

ACbyTesla, Dan O., anyone else got any info or wanna help dig around abit?
Thanks, RW

 

[acbytesla]

Here is a new PMF post to decipher.

I think, and always have, that there's ****loads that LE and the courts know that has not come out.

Basically, it is there way of saying "evidence, we don't need no stinkin evidence!"

It is what comes from watching tv cop shows where the police "know that the suspect did it" but they can't prove it because of some bs red tape. And if only that evidence was made available, no one would believe in their innocence and we could lock them up for good. ("Because really, I sound like a moron arguing they are guilty"......"and I just know that I'm not a moron"........"I think"... "I hope").

 

[Planigale]

As if this has anything to do with color. That's absurd. Eric and you should keep in mind the following.

There are no shoe prints in Meredith's blood that belong to Amanda or Raffaele. There are a dozen that match the shoes of Rudy G.

There is no DNA of Raffaele inside Meredith's vagina. There is DNA that was found there that matched Rudy G.

There is no trace whatsoever of Amanda Knox in Meredith's bedroom despite living in the room next door. There are a half a dozen shoe prints that match Rudy G. There are multiple samples of Rudy's DNA and there is a palm print of Rudy's in Meredith's blood.

Rudy G admitted on a Skype call that he was on the toilet when Meredtih's killer came into the cottage and Rudy tussled with him and the killer left, leaving no trace. Rudy also said that Amanda and Raffaele WERE NOT THERE.

Rudy G fled the country demonstrating consciousness of guilt despite the fact that no one was looking for him.

Rudy G. was arrested only days before the break in at the cottage having broken into the nursery in Milan and was convicted of possessing stolen property from a burglary that took place only a couple of blocks from his home in Perugia....(Rudy said he bought the laptop in Milan)

The idea that Rudy was convicted because he was black is downright absurd. Oh btw, there is not one single call, or text ever between Rudy and Amanda/Raffaele EVER. Doesn't sound like co-conspirators to me.

Also one of Guede's friends (Skype recipient) pro-actively approached the police reporting that he believed Guede was guilty.

 

[codyjuneau]

Here is a new PMF post to decipher.

I think, and always have, that there's ****loads that LE and the courts know that has not come out.

.
Actually I agree. They know where the interrogation recordings are, they know exactly how and why the computers got fried. they know where the missing CCTV footage is, they know where the missing bugged telephone conversations are, they know why they picked a single knife at random, they know why they never tested any other knives, they know which forensic tests have been withheld and why, they know how the bra clasp got tampered with, they know why the bra clasp was destroyed after testing, they know the results for the blood tests downstairs, they know the results of the putative semen test on the pillow found under Meredith's naked body, they know the favours the company that stores their data off-site did for them in return for being give the infamous cartoon movie of the crime contract. Just to name a few.

The bottom line is that the cops don't want the truth heard, but Raffaele and Amanda do.

Is it too much to ask of a justice system to just be honest and transparent?

BTW, I bet the same PMF poster that you quoted has never demanded the putative semen stain be tested. None of them do, which proves none of them really believe Raffaele had anything to do with Meredith's murder.

Cody
.

 

[Dan O.]

Greetings,
I re-read this passage from Murder in Italy the other day:




I asked this question on IA the other day, but not everyone reads the site there.
I would like to see a comparison between Amanda's concerned cell phone calls to Meredith
versus Robyn's call to Meredith the day she was found dead.

I can not seem to find much info on any phone calls from Robyn to Meredith at around 10:00am that day on Nov. 2, 2007, it seems Amanda's call at 12:11:02 was the 1st that day.

It seems there might be a couple made from Robyn to Meredith when I looked at The Massei Report in pages 326-329 or so, but I can't be sure.

As much was made of the apparent shortness of Amada's concerned calls to Meredith, well I'd like to read of how many concerned calls did Meredith's close English friend Robyn place to Meredith that day, the times she did call, and how long they lasted.

ACbyTesla, Dan O., anyone else got any info or wanna help dig around abit?
Thanks, RW

I already answered this and it needs no more response than to reiterate that smart people know how cell phones work and know the futility that it is to keep calling a phone that isn't going to ring.

 

[Planigale]

Reading Nencini motivation.

"In fact, the DNA of Raffaele Sollecito was found on the clasp of the bra worn by Meredith Kercher. It is DNA from likely epithelial exfoliation, left by the defendant the moment he pulled the clasp to remove it from the back of the young woman in order to insert the blade that cut the cloth of the bra hook."

I think there are two errors here. 1) The bra tore and was not cut. Certainly examination of the photos show that the bra had separated at the seam and was not cut. The Italian crime scene investigators say at the scene that it is torn (heard in video). Where the idea that it was cut came from is unclear. It does appear to be propagated through the case. 2) The Sollecito DNA was found on the hook side not the the cloth side of the fastener, which would not be exposed to touch if the bra was fastened. There is also the claim that the DNA from Sollecito was epithelial in origin, this is an assumption of Stefanoni unsupported by any evidence. This unsubstantiated claim is important because it implies direct touch.

This is not a trivial error as it is key to Nencini's reconstruction of Sollecito's participation in the crime.

It is like the logical error (which even Mach accepted), that the Knox DNA on the handle of the knife that had been so thoroughly cleaned (if the murder weapon) to leave no trace of blood and the merest trace of DNA of Kercher (which if it was the murder weapon should be hugely greater in quantity than that of the wielder), originates from the crime. So Nencini says "The fact that, on the handle of the knife, only DNA attributable to Amanda Marie Knox was found leads us to believe that the weapon was held by her". Even if this is the murder weapon, the DNA on the handle must originate after the cleaning, not from the time of the crime, and cannot therefore say anything about who used the knife.

We have the entire reconstruction of Sollecito's and Knox's role based on three facts that are demonstrable errors. And one unsubstantiated claim with no evidence to support it. The one fact that I think is correct is that Sollecito DNA was found in a low amount on the hook side of the fastener, along with traces of DNA of other individuals. There is nothing to identify the particular origin, sweat, saliva, or epithelial. There is nothing to say when it arrived on the bra hook. What we can say is it cannot have arrived in the way Nencini says.

The final fact is the highly disputed presence of DNA of MK on the knife. In my view this is very dubious, such that no reliance can be placed on it. The reasons for the dubiety are technical such that I think beyond the understanding of Nencini who clearly has little understanding of the technical issues (read his discussion of suspect centred DNA profiling). So I am not surprised he accepts the profile though he does make an error in saying "The Scientific Police analyzed the knife and found, on the blade, inside a series of streaks almost invisible to the naked eye, the mixed DNA of two contributors: Meredith Kercher and Raffaele Sollecito". a good example of his technical incompetence is "it is just as certain that the negative controls of the amplification also show an extremely low level of background noise and are thus of very good quality, thus attesting to the absence of contamination of the exhibit". he fails to understand that the amplification controls say nothing about contamination of the exhibit. What should have been run were the negative controls of the extraction / amplification.

 

[Samson]

Planigale, this is a post that tells me the case will be in safe hands for as long as it takes.
Dubiety, I am reminded how we learn something new every day. Great word.

 

[anglolawyer]

snip

The Sollecito DNA was found on the hook side not the the cloth side of the fastener, which would not be exposed to touch if the bra was fastened.

snip

Correction: it was claimed that this was where the DNA was found but the sample was negligently or deliberately destroyed. The person making the claim is known to be incompetent and a liar. I wish people would not keep forgetting this.

 

[ericparoissien]

Rudy Guede must be innocent too

But why would you want to exonerate Guede? Have I misunderstood something here? Sorry if so...

Because of a degree of implication, a degree of presence, a degree of crime-scene-association that is much lower for a person of low social self-confidence.
Guede would be/feel in a guilt position sooner, for example any amount of witnessing/presence would already throw suspicion on him.
Social self-confidence, not as a person's idiosyncrasy, but as a relationship into a human system/group.
He'd consider himself guilty (apologizing for existing as an unwanted exogenous citizen, a guest) at any degree of participation, his intrusion into the Perugian society was his first guilt, the rest followed.
Lumumba seems to have lived through a swat team assault at his place, with his kid and wife; a white Italian would have been arrested with courtesy, simply because being black and living all one's life on an ejection seat has such admitted downside but also the (perceived) advantage of an escape exit. In the case of RS, he can't go too far, "we know where you live, we know your family, and someone will have to pay the debt". Although some think RS should live a happy life in Argentina, instead of that Italian inferno antechamber. Raffaele Sollecito's sense of entitlement is extraordinaire, we saw him on Youtube ask kindly to the judges (in different terms) to let bygones be bygones and let him move on with his life.

Expelling Guede from the start from the defense process through a fast-track trial option, is common sense; he doesn't have means for a long distance defense, no strong negotiator/protector to team up with defense colleagues, no one teams up without guaranties and collaterals, also there probably was high hopes that he would jesus all the guilt on his shoulders.
If there is zero sense of social entitlement in RG, then he may have walked hand in hand with a prosecutor, thinking all the way, "maybe I'm not so guilty for this crime, but by this i pay/apologize for previous guilt".
Which brings us to the interesting, incongruous concept of Ataraxia that Rudy claims in front of judge Hellmann, so incongruous it must point to a monument within his psyche, meaning: in that storm i am at peace in my heart, i am self-justified. Guilt is only Rudy's social communication interface.
Guede's presence on the scene is accepted by all, i guess, but reading guilty actions into the traces he left is not obvious. Anyone who has done the rhetorical exercise of taking and debunking each evidence against Amanda and Raffaele can exonerate Guede before one's first coffee.

 

[Samson]

Because of a degree of implication, a degree of presence, a degree of crime-scene-association that is much lower for a person of low social self-confidence.
Guede would be/feel in a guilt position sooner, for example any amount of witnessing/presence would already throw suspicion on him.
Social self-confidence, not as a person's idiosyncrasy, but as a relationship into a human system/group.
He'd consider himself guilty (apologizing for existing as an unwanted exogenous citizen, a guest) at any degree of participation, his intrusion into the Perugian society was his first guilt, the rest followed.
Lumumba seems to have lived through a swat team assault at his place, with his kid and wife; a white Italian would have been arrested with courtesy, simply because being black and living all one's life on an ejection seat has such admitted downside but also the (perceived) advantage of an escape exit. In the case of RS, he can't go too far, "we know where you live, we know your family, and someone will have to pay the debt". Although some think RS should live a happy life in Argentina, instead of that Italian inferno antechamber. Raffaele Sollecito's sense of entitlement is extraordinaire, we saw him on Youtube ask kindly to the judges (in different terms) to let bygones be bygones and let him move on with his life.

Expelling Guede from the start from the defense process through a fast-track trial option, is common sense; he doesn't have means for a long distance defense, no strong negotiator/protector to team up with defense colleagues, no one teams up without guaranties and collaterals, also there probably was high hopes that he would jesus all the guilt on his shoulders.
If there is zero sense of social entitlement in RG, then he may have walked hand in hand with a prosecutor, thinking all the way, "maybe I'm not so guilty for this crime, but by this i pay/apologize for previous guilt".
Which brings us to the interesting, incongruous concept of Ataraxia that Rudy claims in front of judge Hellmann, so incongruous it must point to a monument within his psyche, meaning: in that storm i am at peace in my heart, i am self-justified. Guilt is only Rudy's social communication interface.
Guede's presence on the scene is accepted by all, i guess, but reading guilty actions into the traces he left is not obvious. Anyone who has done the rhetorical exercise of taking and debunking each evidence against Amanda and Raffaele can exonerate Guede before one's first coffee.

This is definitely the most original post for some time.
It reminds me of Derrida.

 

[lonepinealex]

It is a compelling bit of writing. And, like the writing of Derrida and other French philosophers, one feels it ought to be regarded as worthy, simply because one does not understand it. I'm going to resist however.

 

[js202]

deconstructing a myth

This is definitely the most original post for some time.
It reminds me of Derrida.

Yes, some memorable turns of phrase, if nothing else. By my reasoning, Guede should damn well "jesus all the guilt" if for no better reason than because all of the guilt is his own to jesus.

 

[Samson]

I hope someone of any generation can give this huge case, not for the factual narrative of the crime, but for the catastrophic damage done to so many, its academic due.

 

[RWVBWL]

As much was made of the apparent shortness of Amada's concerned calls to Meredith, well I'd like to read of how many concerned calls did Meredith's close English friend Robyn place to Meredith that day, the times she did call, and how long they lasted.

I already answered this and it needs no more response than to reiterate that smart people know how cell phones work and know the futility that it is to keep calling a phone that isn't going to ring.

Gosh Dan O.,
did I piss you off or something?
Maybe I did not see your answer,
and most of the time I'm not online much,
so I asked again? No biggie, ok?


Since you already answered this,
and don't wanna respond again,
can you give me a link to where your post is?

Look man, I respect your input, a lot,
that's why I asked you for info.

I'm curious about Robyn's memory,
heck we know that the English gals could not pin down what time they ate dinner,
which mighta helped narrow down the Time of Death issue better.
I wonder, did the gals smoke a spinello that night, get a little forgetful, like Raffaele did on the night of Nov. 5 when he was interrogated by Perugia's finest?

Robyn seemed concerned about Meredith.
She said she called again and again.
Maybe she is not the smart person you mention.
I'm not. I'd call again and again.
How would I know that the phone is not ever going to ring+ring thru-out the day?


Simple question,
no need to be defensive or give me The Stefanoni-like run-around:
Does anyone know how many times Robyn called Meredith's cell phones out of concern for her well being that morning, and if so, do you have the times she called Meredith on Nov. 2, 2007?