Continuation Part 10: Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito

[Chris_Halkides]

wrongful convictions and poverty

You are of course ignoring the common denominator of the links provide so far, inasmuch they appear to be wrongful convictions that have taken place in America against fellow Americans who happen to be from an ethnic minority.

I have seen reversals of convictions of white (non-hispanic), hispanic, and black people discussed here. One of the things I see over and over again is that interrogations should be recorded.
"Gregory Taylor, a 50-year-old man, was incarcerated for 6,149 days for the wrongful conviction of murdering Jacquetta Thomas, a woman found dead in a Raleigh cul-de-sac in 1993.
Taylor was the first man declared innocent by the Innocence Inquiry Commission, the only such organization in the United States. He was with Hunt and Lamonte Armstrong several weeks ago at UNC-Chapel Hill for the second annual North Carolina Law and Policy Symposium."

Michael Morton is another person whose name comes up when discussing prosecutorial misconduct. I have discussed Frank Esposito on a number of occasions. IMO it might make sense to look at poverty of the defendants as a factor which makes a wrongful conviction more likely, but a focus on race alone is myopic. Even if race were the sole reason for wrongful convictions in the United States, it would have no relevance whatsoever to the present case.

 

[Diocletus]

You are of course ignoring the common denominator of the links provide so far, inasmuch they appear to be wrongful convictions that have taken place in America against fellow Americans who happen to be from an ethnic minority.

Well, the Duke lacrosse kids were as white as white can be. Of course, they weren't convicted, but that's only because they were wealthy enough to hire lawyers who opened up a can of whoop ass on the crooked prosecutor. Good for them for having the money to do so, and for living in a system where it's possible to fight back against the authorities without getting sued for slander.

 

[CoulsdonUK]

I have seen reversals of convictions of white (non-hispanic), hispanic, and black people discussed here. One of the things I see over and over again is that interrogations should be recorded.
"Gregory Taylor, a 50-year-old man, was incarcerated for 6,149 days for the wrongful conviction of murdering Jacquetta Thomas, a woman found dead in a Raleigh cul-de-sac in 1993.
Taylor was the first man declared innocent by the Innocence Inquiry Commission, the only such organization in the United States. He was with Hunt and Lamonte Armstrong several weeks ago at UNC-Chapel Hill for the second annual North Carolina Law and Policy Symposium."

Michael Morton is another person whose name comes up when discussing prosecutorial misconduct. I have discussed Frank Esposito on a number of occasions. IMO it might make sense to look at poverty of the defendants as a factor which makes a wrongful conviction more likely, but a focus on race alone is myopic. Even if race were the sole reason for wrongful convictions in the United States, it would have no relevance whatsoever to the present case.

Chris Halkides

I am not saying that race is the sole reason for wrongful convictions just that the last 2 or 3 links here relating to wrongful convictions happen to involve people of colour.
It’s not like I am the one posting the links.

 

[AmyStrange]

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Is it me or is there a pattern to the recently announced wrongful convictions being posted here?

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Yes, they're all wrongful convictions. Some of which have just been recently revealed in the media and in the courts and especially here in this thread, which is mostly (over 90% of it anyway) about the wrongful conviction of Raffaele and Amanda and thus related, in my opinion, especially as to how and/ or why they relate.

Another interesting aspect of many of these wrongful convictions is that many of them involve police incompetence, laziness and false confessions, and also (interestingly enough) a zealous prosecutor who still believes they are guilty despite the overwhelming probability that they are not. Some of these problems can be directly linked to LE budgets and some can be related to personal, psychological, and/ or perception problems of the LE individual which is then exasperated by group think.

Many of them are here in the US, which goes to prove that Italy is not alone in convicting the wrong person or persons.

Also as you noted, many of them (not all of them) seem to be racially motivated. The US definitely seems to use race as a way to identify perpetrators, as seen in the disproportionate percentage (as compared to the actual percentage of the population) of the prison population being persons of African-American descent.

It's interesting to note, that the wrongful convictions you replied to were a result of two false confessions (which contradicted each other) and that they were also video taped and they were still convicted.

I have some theories (hypothesis) about that, and one of them is that even though juries here in the US are suppose to consider defendants innocent until they are proven guilty, race and the belief that authority is always right play more into these wrongful convictions than most people in our legal system are willing to admit. Also, I believe that many in LE know (and this is a conspiracy theory of sorts) if they can get a confession (false or otherwise) that is almost as good as a slam-dunk conviction in the legal world, and they are not shy about taking advantage of this for personal gain or other reasons.

I am currently working on many blog articles on my website that are concerned with missing persons and serial killers (amongst many other subjects not related to either) and one of my theories (hypothesis) is that some wrongful convictions are really serial murders disguised as relationship murders or just plainly, that they got the wrong guy/ gal, and as a result, the serial killer (or otherwise) got away with it and maybe is still out there killing.

Here in this country, especially since different police jurisdictions don't usually share information, serial killers can literally get away with murder because of the aforementioned reason and also because the police are adamantly opposed to calling a homicide serial killer related, unless it's proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that two or more homicides are related. The pressures associated with (and as a result of) admitting a serial killer is at large is enormous and thus they try to avoid this at all cost.

Homicide statistics here in the US seem to confirm the belief that most homicide victims know (or knew) their killers, but I believe that this is a self fulfilling prophecy, a kind of confirmation bias if you will, and as a result these statistics are used as a way to back up the belief that serial killers are rare and thus rarely considering them suspects is justified.

It's interesting to note also that in relation to the above mentioned homicide statistics (at least according to "Serial Killers: The Method and Madness of Monsters" by Peter Vronsky) stranger on stranger (or motiveless) homicides are on the rise. It's hard to prove statistically how many homicides are serial killer related, but I believe it's more than it is currently believed to be, but that is just my opinion. Add to all this, the number of people (especially children) who go missing every year and are never found and the number of unidentified bodies that are found (especially skeletal remains where the hyoid bone is never found, which is important in proving whether someone was murdered or not by strangulation) in the US every year, the numbers maybe even higher than I think.

What am I doing about these wrongful convictions (and about serial killer murders in general) besides coming here and expressing my opinions about this specific wrongful conviction and other serial killer related homicides?

I have done much research in psychology, forensics and LE related investigation techniques concerning missing persons and homicides, compiling databases, writing blog articles and running yahoo groups, facebook pages, and twitter accounts related to same and other subjects to which I am interested. In short, I'm trying my best to make others aware of what I perceive to be problems in all these areas. Maybe it's a waste of time, but I think it's better than doing nothing at all.

As a result, and in conclusion, I think we should all be concerned with wrongful convictions because you or a friend or simply someone you love maybe next to be enmeshed in it's clutches or just be a victim of some serial killer or go missing as a result, or for other reasons unknown to me at the moment.

It's better than just believing LE knows what they are doing all the time. Believe me, sometimes they don't, but it's not always their fault, but sometimes it is. All of us should be vigilant (especially when it comes to our children who depend on us to keep them safe) and this thread is just one of the many ways I am trying to do this,

d

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ETA: And, before anyone misinterprets all of this as my saying Rudy is a serial killer (personally, I believe if he is the murderer, it was accidental and not planned) or that a serial killer is responsible for Meredith's murder. That is not what I am saying. I am merely interested (amongst other things) in the methods (and techniques) that LE uses to investigate murders (and missing persons) and how sometimes these same methods end up convicting the wrong person and/ or, in my opinion, also allow a serial killer to keep killing.

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[AmyStrange]

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Chris Halkides

I am not saying that race is the sole reason for wrongful convictions just that the last 2 or 3 links here relating to wrongful convictions happen to involve people of colour.
It’s not like I am the one posting the links.

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Are you implying that because many of the wrongful convictions we've posted here (keeping in my mind that one of them that I posted recently was of a wrongfully convicted white woman in California), that makes it more probable (because he is black) that Rudy is a wrongful conviction also?

There is a lot more evidence that at least Rudy was there during the murder and possibly did the murder, than most of these wrongful convictions we've posted here, regardless of race, in my opinion.

But to be perfectly honest, I'm not absolutely sure he did murder Meredith (but there's definitely more real evidence pointing to him than there is pointing to Raffaele and Amanda), but if he did kill her, I believe (because of his personal history and character) that it was more accidental than premeditated, in my opinion,

d

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[acbytesla]

Chris Halkides

I am not saying that race is the sole reason for wrongful convictions just that the last 2 or 3 links here relating to wrongful convictions happen to involve people of colour.
It’s not like I am the one posting the links.

In the US, the number of people that are poor and of color in prison is also over represented. But there has also been more than a few Caucasians.

For example, Russ Faria, Ryan Ferguson, David Camm, Gary Gauger, Alan Gell, Sally Clark, Angela Cannings, Thomas Kennedy, Nora Wall, Tammy Marquardt, Lynn Dejac, the Mickelberg Brothers, Arthur Allan Thomas, Steven Truscott, Dr. Samuel Holmes Sheppard (The movie and tv series "The Fugitive" was loosely based on Dr. Sheppard.), These are just a few.

 

[sept79]

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But to be perfectly honest, I'm not absolutely sure he did murder Meredith (but there's definitely more real evidence pointing to him than there is pointing to Raffaele and Amanda), but if he did kill her, I believe (because of his personal history and character) that it was more accidental than premeditated, in my opinion,

d

'Accidental' ? You are aware that there were multiple stab wounds ?

 

[AmyStrange]

Yes I am aware there were multiple stab wounds...

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'Accidental' ? You are aware that there were multiple stab wounds ?

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I'm not saying, if he did kill her, that he didn't hold the knife against her throat trying to silence her, she tried to get away, they slipped and fell, the knife went in and while trying to get up, with all the blood, they slipped and fell and the knife went in again, but this all just my opinion,

d

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[CoulsdonUK]

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Are you implying that because many of the wrongful convictions we've posted here (keeping in my mind that one of them that I posted recently was of a wrongfully convicted white woman in California), that makes it more probable (because he is black) that Rudy is a wrongful conviction also?

There is a lot more evidence that at least Rudy was there during the murder and possibly did the murder, than most of these wrongful convictions we've posted here, regardless of race, in my opinion.

But to be perfectly honest, I'm not absolutely sure he did murder Meredith (but there's definitely more real evidence pointing to him than there is pointing to Raffaele and Amanda), but if he did kill her, I believe (because of his personal history and character) that it was more accidental than premeditated, in my opinion,

d

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Wow wow!!!! Hell no that is not what I am saying! It is a complete mystery how some of you folk arrive at the conclusions you do. Guede; will be released far too quickly for my taste.

 

[Diocletus]

Chris Halkides

I am not saying that race is the sole reason for wrongful convictions just that the last 2 or 3 links here relating to wrongful convictions happen to involve people of colour.
It’s not like I am the one posting the links.

You do seem like you're mesmerized by race, though.

 

[sept79]

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I'm not saying, if he did kill her, that he didn't hold the knife against her throat trying to silence her, she tried to get away, they slipped and fell, the knife went in and while trying to get up, with all the blood, they slipped and fell and the knife went in again, but this all just my opinion,

d

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You did mean to say 'and the knife went in again and again', right ?

 

[AmyStrange]

I was not reaching a conclusion c...

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Wow wow!!!! Hell no that is not what I am saying! It is a complete mystery how some of you folk arrive at the conclusions you do. Guede; will be released far too quickly for my taste.

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It's a mystery to me also how you reach the conclusions that you do?

I try to ask questions first (like I just did in the post to which you responded), then I reach conclusions, which I notice you do also, but I'm not perfect so sometimes I DO reach conclusions before asking questions, but at least I'm willing to admit that sometimes I do this.

Why then exactly are you making a big deal about our wrongful conviction posts being mostly race (or economic) related? Maybe I missed that post of yours explaining this. Please direct me to it, and thank you in advance.

Personally, I believe a wrongful conviction is a wrongful conviction, regardless of race or economic status. That's irrelevant to my discussions here, except as to how juries view the defendant and/ or how LE uses it as a place to start in their investigations, which also relates to how LE's methods and techniques may result in wrongful convictions, which relates to this case, and my interest in same, which I tried to explain in more detail HERE.

But once again, all this is just my opinion,

d

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[NancyS]

Wow wow!!!! Hell no that is not what I am saying! It is a complete mystery how some of you folk arrive at the conclusions you do. Guede; will be released far too quickly for my taste.

What were you implying by your posts? It might be easier to just say what you actually think and then people won't come to the wrong conclusion

 

[Sonia]

This is an alleged statement from Angela Antonelli, the "friendly" prison guard as posted on the Feinstein site; in the context of the article, I find this another attempt at character assassination.

Disclaimer: I have read all 7 Harry Potter books. (Thus, I have read at least 2 more books than Curt Knox allegedly had claimed to read.)
http://www.sharonfeinstein.co.uk/main/interviews/Amanda_Knox.php

She read and wrote day and night, she had so many books she could have filled a library.
She was so immersed in her world that probably even if she had lost the appeal and had to serve her 26 years she would have remained buried in her studies. The most emotion I ever saw in her was while she was waiting for her mother to bring her the second Harry Potter book.She got anxious, kept asking when her mother was coming, and whether I thought the book would pass, as not all books are allowed through. She was scared the cover would be too hard, and when it passed she was so pleased.
She felt emotions for books not for people.
Note: Amanda was an honors college student from a different culture surrounded by convicted criminals, some of whom apparently had unstable personalities (see AK's book, WTBH) and prison guards who would report all her behavior, speech, and writings (which were illegally taken from her and illegally published) positive or negative, to the prosecution to be used against her. It was wise for her to be guarded in expressing emotion, in my opinion, and not a sign of a character defect.

No doubt the "lady" prison guard and the prisoner were paid handsomely for their contributions to Feinstein's journalism.

What the prison guard and her cellmates may not have understood about Amanda was that she had found a way to continue her UW studies in prison and that she clung to those studies as a sort of psychological liferaft.

She also specifically said that she found prison "psychologically debilitating" and felt as if she couldn't trust anyone.

From the UW Daily interview titled "A student through it all":

Right around the time of Knox’s arrest, her mother, Edda Mellas, contacted Giuseppe Leporace, a UW senior lecturer and then-Italian Vice-Consul in Seattle, for advice about her daughter’s predicament.

He couldn’t help her in the legal arena, but he and fellow professors created a course of work that helped Knox improve her Italian and allowed her to continue working on general studies and creative writing requirements toward her UW degree. Leporace worked with the Germanics, history, and other departments to send her books, study materials, and poetry.

“My approach was, ‘I am not a judge, I am not a lawyer, I am a professor and she is a student of ours,’” Leporace said. “‘Whatever I can do to help her be in a good state of mind, while she is in this situation until it’s cleared out, I’ll be happy to do it.’”

Knox said life in prison was contradictory and psychologically debilitating. There was solidarity among prisoners, but, according to Knox, she couldn’t trust anyone.

http://dailyuw.com/archive/2014/02/...ns-uw-finish-her-final-degree-re#.VD_9r_ldWSo

 

[AmyStrange]

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You did mean to say 'and the knife went in again and again', right ?

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my understanding is that many people have reached the conclusion that her largest wound was caused by three individual stabs by a knife to the same area of the neck, but since I didn't perform the autopsy, i have to assume they are correct, which means that yes, you are right.

When they fell the first time, it went in once and then when they slipped and fell again and again, the knife went in again and again, IF those people I mentioned earlier are correct in their conclusions,

d

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[acbytesla]

Chris Halkides

I am not saying that race is the sole reason for wrongful convictions just that the last 2 or 3 links here relating to wrongful convictions happen to involve people of colour.
It’s not like I am the one posting the links.

More wrongfully convicted Caucasians: Larry Davis, Alan Northrup, Susan Mellen, Susan King, Nick Rhoades, Michelle Murphy, Jamie Lee Peterson, Michael Parker, Patrick Murray,Mark Woodworth, Jimmie Nelson,Randall Mills, Samuel Lawson, Dewey Jones, John Mooney, Johnathan Montgomery, Gabriel Drennen, Christopher Roesser, Paula Hall, David Boyce, John Grega, Joseph Frey, Uriah Courtney, David Munchinski,Jerry Lee Jenkins, Megan Winfrey, Jeramie Davis, David Ranta, Seth Penalver, Kristine Bunch, James Grissom.

I could go on and on and on Coulsdon. None of these cases got the publicity that Amanda Knox got, but all were White people that spent time in prison and were eventually exonerated. (Most in the last few years)

 

[CoulsdonUK]

What were you implying by your posts? It might be easier to just say what you actually think and then people won't come to the wrong conclusion

Oh my goodness, I did say; 2 or 3 the last links posted in relation to wrongful convictions involved people of colour! To be more direct, I do not see the slightest connection to this case.

 

[Desert Fox]

More wrongfully convicted Caucasians: Larry Davis, Alan Northrup, Susan Mellen, Susan King, Nick Rhoades, Michelle Murphy, Jamie Lee Peterson, Michael Parker, Patrick Murray,Mark Woodworth, Jimmie Nelson,Randall Mills, Samuel Lawson, Dewey Jones, John Mooney, Johnathan Montgomery, Gabriel Drennen, Christopher Roesser, Paula Hall, David Boyce, John Grega, Joseph Frey, Uriah Courtney, David Munchinski,Jerry Lee Jenkins, Megan Winfrey, Jeramie Davis, David Ranta, Seth Penalver, Kristine Bunch, James Grissom.

I could go on and on and on Coulsdon. None of these cases got the publicity that Amanda Knox got, but all were White people that spent time in prison and were eventually exonerated. (Most in the last few years)

One person who one should also not forget is Marty Tankleff. . . . .
From a wealthy family and also very intelligent. Once he got out of prison, he studied law and has gotten his degree. Was originally convicted of murdering his parents.

Going to have some questions for CoulsdonUK but want to take my dog for a long walk first. Be back in a few hours to ask him.

 

[AmyStrange]

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Oh my goodness, I did say; 2 or 3 the last links posted in relation to wrongful convictions involved people of colour! To be more direct, I don’t the slightest connection to this case.

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Thank you c, but I believe you are wrong that they are not related to this case, because many of the techniques and methods used by law enforcement (and prosecutors) which resulted in the wrongful convictions posted here (at least in the ones I posted anyway, and some of the others also, such as the Norfolk 4) are very similar to the ones used in this case, and/ or also how they relate to the idea of group think by LE (i.e. the thin blue line, which is slang for police solidarity), or how prosecutors think (see examples below).

For example, in many of these cases that we posted, the original prosecutor still thinks the exonerated person is guilty, regardless of the overwhelming evidence to the contrary.

Also, the whole idea that false confessions are impossible and don't happen to innocent people and how the prosecutors sometimes use this as one of the reasons they still think the exonerated person is guilty.

That's why I believe race is the least important factor as it relates to this particular case. It's the methods and techniques that are more important, in my opinion, which (again) I tried to explain in more detail HERE.

But it's not like race (and economic status) don't also apply to wrongful convictions, it's just not what makes it relatable to this case,

d

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[Numbers]

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Are you implying that because many of the wrongful convictions we've posted here (keeping in my mind that one of them that I posted recently was of a wrongfully convicted white woman in California), that makes it more probable (because he is black) that Rudy is a wrongful conviction also?

There is a lot more evidence that at least Rudy was there during the murder and possibly did the murder, than most of these wrongful convictions we've posted here, regardless of race, in my opinion.

But to be perfectly honest, I'm not absolutely sure he did murder Meredith (but there's definitely more real evidence pointing to him than there is pointing to Raffaele and Amanda), but if he did kill her, I believe (because of his personal history and character) that it was more accidental than premeditated, in my opinion,

d

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AmyS,

You are stating that the breaking of the glass, the confrontation of Meredith, the multiple stab wounds, and the purported semen stain on the pillow were all "accidental"? Guede was well aware, from his acquaintance with the boys downstairs, that four young women lived in the upstairs apartment. Do you believe that he did not think one or more would return to the apartment while he was occupying it?