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..Assume you meant relevant. And if Wilson knew that Brown and Johnson were possible suspects in a robbery, I don't see how you can think it's not relevant. It provides context, either way.
Yes, I meant not relevant.

It's not relevant because no one is claiming Wilson shouldn't have arrested Brown.

It's excessive use of force that is the issue.

But even that matter is overshadowed by the problem Wilson has in that the evidence suggests he shot Brown as Brown was either getting down or falling down or doubled over.
 
I think if you can show he had a bracelet/watch, and then he didn't. And there is an evidence marker near something that looks like said bracelet/watch which is otherwise unidentified...then you may have something worth discussing.

But for now, your right. No reason to speculate. We''l find out one way or another in time. But I know which guess I'm putting my money on ...
It doesn't look like a bracelet. It looks like two casings together and while that is also unlikely, so is the bracelet speculation.

And if Johnson was involved in the initial struggle with Wilson, why was he not charged?
 
This is entirely correct. There's only one problem - the police have alleged that Brown tried to grab Wilson's gun, while it was still in the holster. And again, there's a huge chasm between Brown's acts in the store (namely, supposedly stealing some cigarellos, and pushing the sales clerk), and his alleged actions while walking down the street (trying to kill a cop!) I do not agree that the former action makes the latter behavior likely.

I'm sorry, I don't see how the connection can't be made. Brown used his size to intimidate a store clerk, and assaulted the man. He then assaulted a police officer. I agree in that the store situation isn't directly tied to the assault on Wilson, but it definitely goes to mind set and begins to establish a pattern. As the article states, Brown was given several opportunities to adhere to police instruction, and he chose not to.

Also, we can stop using "supposedly stealing". He stole them, there is nothing supposed about it. It was admitted to by one of the people that was there, security footage is available where you can see the act, and lastly, it was admitted to by one of the people that was there. Yes, I know I said that twice, but in a thread where some people have placed so much emphasis on eyewitness testimony, I can't fathom why this eyewitness recounting is ignored.

The police's official statements on this matter are all over the place.

No, they're really not. They said that the robbery wasn't the reason that Wilson approached the two men, which has stayed consistent. Unless you are reading something I am not, if you have a link I'll be happy to apologize and retract my statement. As it stands the only information I've seen that it wasn't the reason that he stopped them, but may be the reason he went back to them after beginning to leave. Otherwise, they have confirmed it was broadcasted over the radio before the shooting, and again, the information up thread.

and that's why, as I and many other people have said, it's important to see what Wilson said immediately after the shooting - we cannot draw anything definitive without his statement, and the blank report from the Ferguson PD is just putting them in a somewhat worse light than their known actions have.

I disagree, the blank report could have been because the FPD wasn't handling the investigation. Again, it's been confirmed that they immediately and deliberately handed the investigation off to another PD. Also, this is still an ongoing investigation so his statement is not going to be released. Just like the official statement of Mr. Johnson has not been released. Johnson made the choice to go on TV and recant his story, but nothing has officially been released by the police department.

The FPD have made several mistakes over this period of time, especially with regards to the protesters. Their actions were deplorable, and at times absolutely disgusting. I honestly do believe that they made the right move in handing the investigation off. We haven't seen more leaks and I don't believe we will until the grand jury makes their decision.
 
I understand fully the desire to protect your identity - and that's why I asked in the manner I did. If you had told me "I'd rather not say" I'd understand.

However, your name/avatar suggest that you do not live in the US. And I suspect that the use of "thug" for black people is restricted to the US. That's all.

Point taken, Mumbles and I'm sorry to have been so bristly about the subject. Please accept my apologies.
I rarely, if ever, take part in JREF discussions of purely USAian concern as I can't begin to understand their cultural context. This case, however, caught my interest because it is by no means what I assumed it was upon reading the first BBC reports.
 
Is Dorian Johnson in federal protective custody?

Jim RobertsVerified account ‏@nycjim 18h
Dorian Johnson, who was with #MikeBrown when he was shot, is in federal protective custody & fears for his life. http://wapo.st/1tpqYSa

A good question. I haven't found any back-up or another source for this claim.



I missed this earlier, and have not seen it mentioned, FWIW:

http://stlouis.cbslocal.com/2014/08/26/report-alleged-new-audio-of-michael-brown-shooting/

Twelve shell casings—all from police weapons—were recovered at the scene.


Twelve? All from Wilson's weapon?



This is entirely correct. There's only one problem - the police have alleged that Brown tried to grab Wilson's gun, while it was still in the holster. And again, there's a huge chasm between Brown's acts in the store (namely, supposedly stealing some cigarellos, and pushing the sales clerk), and his alleged actions while walking down the street (trying to kill a cop!) I do not agree that the former action makes the latter behavior likely. [ . . . ]

Likely or not, the former action did take place and only barely 10 minutes before the shooting, correct me if I'm wrong. Between the robbery and Brown's death in the middle of the road we know there was some sort of confrontation with Wilson. What led Brown to defy the order to clear the roadway? A possible adrenaline rush from the robbery?

I expect the truth of that struggle at the police cruiser will come out eventually or at least, so I hope- I'd like to know the truth of the matter.

What on earth made Brown think he could escape a confrontation with an armed cop by running down the middle of a road?



They say 12 casings recovered.

That means, one from the car, and 10 on the audio. Either he only shot once at Brown as Brown fled, or the six shots of which at least some entered through the front occurred as Brown turned. [ . . . ]

1+10= 12?



How do we know he "committed a felony assault on a police officer"? I find it just as easy to believe that Wilson grabbed Brown by the shirt and drew his gun on him.

Can you draw a gun with one hand?




[ . . . ]The FPD have made several mistakes over this period of time, especially with regards to the protesters. Their actions were deplorable, and at times absolutely disgusting. I honestly do believe that they made the right move in handing the investigation off. We haven't seen more leaks and I don't believe we will until the grand jury makes their decision.

I agree with you there on all those points.
 
Brown could have turned around at any time. There is absolutely no reason for him to wait for the pause in recording.
 
It doesn't look like a bracelet. It looks like two casings together and while that is also unlikely, so is the bracelet speculation.

And if Johnson was involved in the initial struggle with Wilson, why was he not charged?

Isn't Johnson more or less in protective custody now?

Perhaps possible charges and details against him are being withheld, and may never go forward if he is involved in some kind of plea deal..
 
I'm not confusing anything. The video did not need to be released at the time it was because of any legal reason. The feds specifically asked them not to release the video. I think they know the law about release of information requests. Rationalizing that it had nothing to do with Ferguson police trying to bias public opinion is an unsupportable conclusion.

Not to mention, how did the press even know about the robbery being connected to the shooting?

That doesn't mean releasing the video was wrong. How many people were out there trying to play a "gentle giant" narrative before the video came out? The police have every right to defend themselves in the court of public opinion. I real bias is from people that don't want relevant information released.
 
...1+10= 12?
Re-read my post:
1 from the car
10 on the audio

That only leaves 1 shot. Either the volley of 6 was while Brown was fleeing and he turned around during the volley, or, Wilson only shot once at Brown as he fled which is not something in any of the police accounts.
 
Point taken, Mumbles and I'm sorry to have been so bristly about the subject. Please accept my apologies.

Accepted - but I really don't think you need to apologize for it.

I'll put this in full context. First, I'm a black guy, who has never left the US. So, I'm very ignorant of anything outside of the US. And this is not admirable. But it's what I am. So no judgement there.

Second, this discussion has moved far beyond whether Brown assaulted Wilson or whatever. Ive personally heard people who I supported before this, who I have met and know to be peaceful, reporting that the local cops are blasting tear gas canisters at them, for no reason.

This is not trivial.

Regardless of the Wilson/Brown case, we have police literally driving up and down the street, blasting whoever they see with rubber bullets and tear gas. That's insanely violent, and yet we have mass media figures calling the people just walking down the street, or standing in their own backyards "rioters and looters". This is very important.
 
Brown could have turned around at any time. There is absolutely no reason for him to wait for the pause in recording.
It's not my contention Brown turned during the pause. Wilson paused when Brown turned.

Isn't Johnson more or less in protective custody now?

Perhaps possible charges and details against him are being withheld, and may never go forward if he is involved in some kind of plea deal..
Interviews with Johnson's lawyers do not give that impression.

I understand the image doesn't look like a casing. But it also doesn't look like a heavy bracelet or watch.

All of the witnesses put only Brown at the SUV window.

That doesn't mean releasing the video was wrong. How many people were out there trying to play a "gentle giant" narrative before the video came out? The police have every right to defend themselves in the court of public opinion. I real bias is from people that don't want relevant information released.
The feds asked Ferguson PD not to release it.

This isn't about right or wrong, it's about reasons why the PD would release it when they'd been asked not to. The FOIA request was a convenient excuse but it certainly wasn't mandatory the video be released at that time.
 
Isn't Johnson more or less in protective custody now?

No. And there's really no reason to hold him in any sort of custody. The only know crime he's connected with is Brown's robbery, and he was recorded giving the stolen goods he was handed back.
 
Brown could have turned around at any time. There is absolutely no reason for him to wait for the pause in recording.

And that's the central question - what was the pause in the shooting about?
 
Likely or not, the former action did take place and only barely 10 minutes before the shooting, correct me if I'm wrong. Between the robbery and Brown's death in the middle of the road we know there was some sort of confrontation with Wilson. What led Brown to defy the order to clear the roadway? A possible adrenaline rush from the robbery?

Or, possibly just not liking some guy driving up and ordering him around. That seems perfectly human to me.

What on earth made Brown think he could escape a confrontation with an armed cop by running down the middle of a road?

Wouldn't it make sense, given Johnson's story, that he would simply be running out of fear?
 
And I explained to you the hypocrisy. Either the store video is part of the investigation of Brown's death and should not have been released or it is not relevant. You cannot have it both ways by claiming it is a separate crime that the investigation is completed. If that is true then it is not relative to the Brown shooting.

It's hard to understand why this isn't clear. There were investigative reports generated by the investigation of Brown's strong arm robbery. Subsequently, Brown was shot. The robbery investigation became inactive by virtue of law enforcement making the decision not to prosecute a dead man. Once the investigation became inactive, the reports generated by that investigation became public records.

An investigation was conducted into the circumstances of Brown's shooting. That investigation is not inactive by virute of not meeting one of the statutory criteria. Those investigative reports are not yet public records.

There is no criterion for investigative reports to be closed by virtue of relevance to another investigation. It most certainly can be both a public record and relevant to another investigation. By this logic, nothing abut this case should ever become public record by virtue of potential relevance to other investigations into police wrongdoing. That interpretation would close all otherwise public records that could expose government wrongdoing.
 
Revealed today at the hearing to find Michael Brown's juvenile "record", is the fact that no, he was not accused of assault, or murder, or burglary, or robbery, or anything else that would qualify as a class A or class B felony.

http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/...cle_43c9bbbb-356f-5ea6-b9e2-7dde7e3e5c83.html

Michael Brown was never found delinquent of the juvenile equivalents of any Class A or B felony charges, and was not facing any at the time he died, a court official said this morning at a hearing on whether his juvenile records should be released.

The Post-Dispatch had filed a petition in St. Louis County Circuit Court to unseal any records about him in family court, if any existed.

Cynthia Harcourt, a lawyer for St. Louis County Juvenile Officer Kip Seeley, argued against releasing those records, but acknowledged that there were no convictions or active cases for the most serious types of felonies.

Connoisseurs of smear jobs will be expecting the inevitable cries of "but, but, but, this is only felonies!!! We don't KNOW that he wasn't accused of other things!!!" ignoring the fact that even if he had been in trouble before, it wouldn't have any relevance to whether or not Wilson had the right to kill him.

On a related note, a Princeton operations manager is running into trouble because of his medical marijuana card and activism.

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/princeton-wanrs-medical-marijuana-patient-lose-job

A Princeton University employee and marijuana legalization activist said Tuesday he has been told by his employer to choose between medical marijuana and his job.

Don DeZarn, 48, of East Windsor, said Princeton officials told him that he could not work in his job as senior operations manager of campus dining and use medical marijuana. DeZarn said he hasn't used medical marijuana while working, but had let university officials know about it if he ever needed to use it for an "emergency situation."

The U.S. Navy veteran said he is prescribed medical marijuana for inflammatory bowel disease and post-traumatic stress disorder. DeZarn said the "ultimatum" comes as a surprise to him. He is running as a New Jersey congressional candidate for the Legalize Marijuana Party.

Note that there is no mention here of how his medical marijuana usage has turned him into a homicidal maniac. Strangely, when it comes to Americans who have NOT been shot by white men, the pot usage loses all of its Reefer Madness side effects.
 
Article discussing analysis of the audio recording of some of the shots fired in the Michael Brown case:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...c-experts-detail-purported-ferguson-shooting/

The company claims the echos prove that the shooter did not move more than 4 feet while these shots were fired.

Knowing how sound can be reflected, I understand how the pattern of echos after a gunshot can give us information about the location of the shooter. But in this example, there were 10 shots and only 7 echos recorded. With one or fewer echos per shot, a consistent timing between the a shot and its echo only tells us the shooter did not move much relative to what was producing the echos. If the shooter moves parallel to a building that is producing echos, the timing between the shot and the echo will not change.
 
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