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SG is putting herself in the position of the cops and saying that what they did is not SOP by her standards. Monkety is also declaring what those standards should be. It's not as different as you make it sound.

True enough, I just saw Monketey pose it as a question. He didn't state that this is what they should do. He asked a series of questions, and then finished it with what he would do in that situation. SG states everything as if it's an absolute with no wiggle room.

Point taken though, sorry for the off topic jibber jabber.
 
A guy (allegedly) appears in a frame of a blurry video, shot from some distance and perspective, appears maybe to be slightly larger than another guy, who is at a slightly different distance, angle and perspective.

I can see how the Amanda Knox threads went forever. CSI-level genius is participating in these threads.

It's not a single frame. You can watch the whole video, which from the sounds of it, you've never seen.



Your devotion to knowledge and curiosity to learn from all sources is breathtaking.
 
Monkety made a declaration that Brown outweighed Wilson by 100 pounds. Was that the product of a thinking, skeptical person? Do we have any evidence of this? So you ignored that little bit of complete invention in order to chastise me for providing a photo of the person in question and noting that he's taller than the other cop, and obviously not thin?

Your concept of thinking needs work.

The average male in the us is 197 lbs. Mike brown was 300 lbs. So 100 lbs more sounds like the product of a person thinking about the average weight of an adult male in the US, yes.

We don't know how tall one police officer is, so putting wilsons height as taller than the officer next to simply informs us that he is not the shortest officer in the FPD, but tells us nothing about his actual height.

As for not thin... is he wearing a vest ?

Your concept of thinking needs work.
 
You seriously don't want to be defending that website. I'm just going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you do not know about the website you are seemingly defending. It does matter how one goes about being right even if one is right. A openly and apologetically racist clock is correct at least twice a day.

As Mumbles said, not only is that site a disgrace to the word "conservative", it is a disgrace to the word "treehouse"!

Anyone who links to something on a skeptics forums should be aware of and vet the site that hosts it. Ignorance is no excuse.

I think you meant "unapologetically" but either way, you're wrong or you're fibbing. This is one of those myths that gets going and builds steam simply because people repeat it.

I've seen some stories on CTH I thought were a but eye-roll inducing, but take it from someone who knows racism... CTH isn't racist, much less openly and unapologetically so. A person can and will easily and quickly get banned from their comment section for "racism."

I won't claim I keep a close eye on CTH anymore, but I've never seen this supposed racism. It's a legend. Please tell me what you're basing it on. Them bashing Al Sharpton and criticizing what they call the "black grievance industry (BGI)"??

That won't cut it. I hope you have some real basis for saying they are not just racist but super and obviously so. I'm happy to be corrected, but I do think this is a legend.
 
So in light of the new audio, do you currently think it's possible that between the first six shots and the last four, it was possible for Brown to stop running (remember, as Cain pointed out, he was a fat guy and probably took a while to stop moving), turned around, taunted Wilson, and then began charging back? Or do you concede that this would be impossible, based on the short amount of time between the volleys?

I didn't think he was fat at all, definitely not by the convenience store video at least. He looked to be in fairly decent shape. That's slightly irrelevant though.

To be honest, despite what SG says, I haven't really figured out how the audio fits in at all. I don't understand how the first shot could be missed on the audio as the individual that recorded was obviously was MID conversation, not at the beginning of the conversation. I don't understand how Brown got so far away, or why there were pauses at all.

1) Wilson obviously had more ammo in the gun. If he just wanted to put as many holes in Brown as possible there would be no pause at all. Right? He would have kept going until the gun went *click*

2) It could be that in pursuit he stopped running, Brown turned around (all gun shots are in the front), Wilson waited for him to turn around and then finished the job. This would mean that Wilson has some answering to do.

3) How does the situation at the car fit in? What happened to cause a pause or how did it get to the gun in the first place?

I really, really don't think that without the confrontation at the car that Wilson's first reaction would have been to go for the gun. As I have stated before, without knowing the details of what happened initially I don't know who was to blame, if there was one party. At this time I see it as a bad series of events as a result of poor choices by BOTH parties.
 
That CTH site that everybody disses had something not shown elsewhere. A bullet at the second floor level of one of the buildings there. It's impact point jibes with the first shot being a miss out the window. So, not being a close range hit, it would not have left powder burns on the body. Perhaps on the clothing there is plenty of residue.

And from other news snippets, there is supposedly incontrovertible evidence tha Brown was trying to take the gun in the car. Fingerprints, or skin residue on the sharp parts?
They take the liberty of saying the shot had to be the one from the car because it was so poorly aimed if it wasn't.

But you cannot rule out "poorly aimed" at this point. And without ballistics, how can the blog speculators rule out ricochet?

Who is making the claim again that there is "incontrovertible evidence that Brown was trying to take the gun in the car"?:rolleyes:
 
At 2 feet away there will be powder burns.

To the clothes, yes, if the gun went off in the direction of Brown at all. While CTH shows a potential path of that first bullet, we don't know that the gun was even pointed at Brown at the time. If there is a bullet hole in the dash broad of the SUV, I would not expect powder burns even on Browns cloths.
 
Monkety made a declaration that Brown outweighed Wilson by 100 pounds.
Which was wrong, based on the available evidence.


Was that the product of a thinking, skeptical person?
I think so, but thinking, skeptical people are wrong sometimes.

Do we have any evidence of this?
Of Brown outweighing the cop by 100 pounds? No.

So you ignored that little bit of complete invention in order to chastise me for providing a photo of the person in question and noting that he's taller than the other cop, and obviously not thin?
Nothing at all is obvious based on that video.

Your concept of thinking needs work.
:rolleyes:

I didn't think he was fat at all, definitely not by the convenience store video at least. He looked to be in fairly decent shape. That's slightly irrelevant though.
As above, you can tell absolutely nothing from that blurry surveillance video.
 
As above, you can tell absolutely nothing from that blurry surveillance video.

I can tell he's a black male, he's taller than all others in the store, what clothes he's wearing, what his actions are, that he stole something, and he was with someone that is significantly shorter, and thinner than himself. I'd say I can tell an awful lot by the surveillance video. I also didn't think it was blurry in the slightest. Maybe we're talking about different vids?
 
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You know, when I was constructing that hypothetical, I completely forgot to factor in a second individual who could conceivably assist his friend.

You mean Darian Johnson?
“Everyone else’s mentality be on some nonsense, silliness,” Johnson said. “But Mike had his mind set on more than that, helping others. I just got a good feeling from being around him.”
Brown and Johnson took off running together. There were three cars lined up along the side of the street. Johnson says he ducked behind the first car, whose two passengers were screaming. Crouching down a bit, he watched Brown run past.

“Keep running, bro!,” he said Brown yelled. Then Brown yelled it a second time. Those would be the last words Johnson’s friend, “Big Mike,” would ever say to him.

Brown made it past the third car. Then, “blam!” the officer took his second shot, striking Brown in the back. At that point, Johnson says Brown stopped, turned with his hands up and said “I don’t have a gun, stop shooting!”

By that point, Johnson says the officer and Brown were face-to-face. The officer then fired several more shots. Johnson described watching Brown go from standing with his hands up to crumbling to the ground and curling into a fetal position.

“After seeing my friend get gunned down, my body just ran,” he said. He ran to his apartment nearby. Out of breath, shocked and afraid, Johnson says he went into the bathroom and vomited. Then he checked to make sure that he hadn’t also been shot.
http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/eyewitness-michael-brown-fatal-shooting-missouri



At 2 feet away there won't be powder burns.

Are you quite certain of your assertion?
These people seem to think otherwise.
Gunshot residues emitted from the muzzle will travel out to distances of approximately 3 and 5 feet in most firearms but in some cases can travel even greater distances. At the 3-5 foot range the gunshot residues may only consist of a few trace particles and make determining the firing distance difficult if not impossible.

As the firearm gets closer to its target the residue concentrations increase and the actual size or diameter to the pattern gets smaller. At around 18-24 inches most firearms will start to deposit considerable concentrations of gunshot residues that may or may not be visible to the eye.
http://www.firearmsid.com/a_distancegsr.htm
 
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I can tell he's a black male, he's taller than all others in the store, what clothes he's wearing, what his actions are, that he stole something, and he was with someone that is significantly shorter, and thinner than himself. I'd say I can tell an awful lot by the surveillance video. I also didn't think it was blurry in the slightest. Maybe we're talking about different vids?

You could tell what kind of shape Mr. Brown was in, based on that video? Seriously?

ETA - I don't mean to be a jerk; please link the version you are viewing. The only one I saw was a gif that was blurry.
 
SG is putting herself in the position of the cops and saying that what they did is not SOP by her standards. Monkety is also declaring what those standards should be. It's not as different as you make it sound.
Not sure which thing is specifically the issue here but, I said a couple things about SOPs.

One, I said it appeared to be the typical behavior for Ferguson cops to see young black men as criminals and Wilson likely approached these two antagonistically. That was an opinion on the effects of the citizens v cops history in Ferguson.

And two, I said it wouldn't be the SOP to pull up to robbery suspects too close to open your door and get out of the vehicle. That was a mistake Wilson allegedly made. If anyone doubts the standard SOP, take a look at the video of the Ferguson cops killing the mentally disturbed man at the store. That's how cops pull up and get out of a car, gun drawn, ordering the suspect to take his hands out of his pockets and so on.
 
One, I said it appeared to be the typical behavior for Ferguson cops to see young black men as criminals and Wilson likely approached these two antagonistically. That was an opinion on the effects of the citizens v cops history in Ferguson. creative writing, fiction, what?

please elaborate
 
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