• Quick note - the problem with Youtube videos not embedding on the forum appears to have been fixed, thanks to ZiprHead. If you do still see problems let me know.

Michael Brown Shooting

Status
Not open for further replies.
BenBurch said:
People walk down my 45' wide two lane street all the time. (It is the widest residential street in town because it once had three trolley tracks on it to serve the park.) We have one old guy (never figured out if he was homeless) who runs all day and is always running down the middle of streets. Cops sometimes shoo him to the sidewalk but nobody ever tickets him. Actually, I haven't seen him in a while now, I hope he's OK.
Click to expand...

Which is exactly what the officer was doing, he was "shooing" them to the sidewalk. There is absolutely zero, zilch, not a lick of evidence that he had any intention of ticketing them. According to sources he told them to get on the sidewalk, which they in turn told him they were almost at their location, as if that should mean they don't have to abide by the law.

Once again, I know none of this means he should have been shot for it, just that Wilson was only attempting to get them on the sidewalk. He didn't ride up on them with his gun out, screaming, frothing at the mouth in hopes he could cap a black man. Just wanted them on the sidewalk.
 
steve s said:
Baden was the third person to autopsy the body, after StL County and the Feds. Perhaps it got wiped off during those other autopsies. Steve S
Click to expand...

Baden was actually second. The third autopsy of Michael Brown was the federal autopsy. The Washington Post reported:

Federal officials have ordered an additional independent autopsy for Michael Brown...“Attorney General Holder has instructed Justice Department officials to arrange for an additional autopsy to be performed by a federal medical examiner,” department spokesman Brian Fallon said in a statement Sunday. “This independent examination will take place as soon as possible.” Link
Click to expand...

This article was published on August 17th the date of the Baden autopsy and states the Justice Department was making arrangements as of that date.
 
Monketey Ghost said:
Question...

You're a cop. A six-foot-something man that outweighs you by a hundred pounds hypothetically charges you from X distance.
Click to expand...

So you're saying you know how big and tall Darren Wilson is, and he's less then 200 pounds?



Judging by this picture, he's neither short nor skinny.
 
plague311 said:
Which is exactly what the officer was doing, he was "shooing" them to the sidewalk. There is absolutely zero, zilch, not a lick of evidence that he had any intention of ticketing them. According to sources he told them to get on the sidewalk, which they in turn told him they were almost at their location, as if that should mean they don't have to abide by the law.

Once again, I know none of this means he should have been shot for it, just that Wilson was only attempting to get them on the sidewalk. He didn't ride up on them with his gun out, screaming, frothing at the mouth in hopes he could cap a black man. Just wanted them on the sidewalk.
Click to expand...

Sorry, I read that as ' "Shooting" them to the sidewalk ', and pictured a twist on the classic scene in old Westerns, where the bad guy starts shooting as the hapless victims feet, while demanding they "Dance."...
 
Last edited:
Monketey Ghost said:
Question...

You're a cop. A six-foot-something man that outweighs you by a hundred pounds hypothetically charges you from X distance.

Do you wait for him to reach/tackle you and employ your high school/collegiate level wrestling to engage him? Maybe you have some slick grappling skills and you take a second to imagine how you're going to get the guy down, maybe hope to control his body size and arms with your impassable open guard techniques? Since a closed guard on an opponent that size isn't feasible...

Or do you use your service weapon?

I'm the cop, I use the service weapon in that hypothetical every time. I'm not going to let anyone wrestle my gun away from me.
Click to expand...

To be honest Monketey, in my humble opinion, it's important for me to know the distance Brown was from Wilson at this point. If he was 50' away, had a bullet it in him already, and was unarmed, it would be hard to tell what I would do. Mind you, I am arm chair quarterbacking here, and in the heat of the moment I'd probably curl into an assball and cry. Then again, I'm a tubby, shorter, white guy from North Dakota.

With that much distance against a wounded individual, it would be possible to pepper spray then go in with a taser if needed. If he was charging and closing ground quickly from 35' or less, then fight or flight would probably take over. I have my gun drawn, he's coming at me quick, the choice is clear. I think people underestimate how difficult it is to hit a moving target with a taser that isn't in point blank range. With a taser, you have to hit them solid as well. A fleeting hit won't cut it, it has to be dead on.
 
Monketey Ghost said:
Amazing that SG knows what cops should do and what they would care about, it's like we have our own LEO Sylvia Browne.
Click to expand...

Monketey Ghost said:
Question...

You're a cop. A six-foot-something man that outweighs you by a hundred pounds hypothetically charges you from X distance.

Do you wait for him to reach/tackle you and employ your high school/collegiate level wrestling to engage him? Maybe you have some slick grappling skills and you take a second to imagine how you're going to get the guy down, maybe hope to control his body size and arms with your impassable open guard techniques? Since a closed guard on an opponent that size isn't feasible...

Or do you use your service weapon?

I'm the cop, I use the service weapon in that hypothetical every time. I'm not going to let anyone wrestle my gun away from me.
Click to expand...

By the way, I hope you didn't miss this contradiction here.
 
Mike! said:
Sorry, I read that as ' "Shooting" them to the sidewalk ', and pictured a twist on the classic scene in old Westerns, where the bad guy starts shooting as the hapless victims feet, while demanding they "Dance."...
Click to expand...

Right when you said that I got an image of Yosemite Sam, and Bugs.
 
plague311 said:
To be honest Monketey, in my humble opinion, it's important for me to know the distance Brown was from Wilson at this point. If he was 50' away, had a bullet it in him already, and was unarmed, it would be hard to tell what I would do. Mind you, I am arm chair quarterbacking here, and in the heat of the moment I'd probably curl into an assball and cry. Then again, I'm a tubby, shorter, white guy from North Dakota.

With that much distance against a wounded individual, it would be possible to pepper spray then go in with a taser if needed. If he was charging and closing ground quickly from 35' or less, then fight or flight would probably take over. I have my gun drawn, he's coming at me quick, the choice is clear. I think people underestimate how difficult it is to hit a moving target with a taser that isn't in point blank range. With a taser, you have to hit them solid as well. A fleeting hit won't cut it, it has to be dead on.
Click to expand...

So in light of the new audio, do you currently think it's possible that between the first six shots and the last four, it was possible for Brown to stop running (remember, as Cain pointed out, he was a fat guy and probably took a while to stop moving), turned around, taunted Wilson, and then began charging back? Or do you concede that this would be impossible, based on the short amount of time between the volleys?
 
Unabogie said:
By the way, I hope you didn't miss this contradiction here.
Click to expand...

I believe Monketey is saying what he would do in that situation, while SG states things from a position of certainty. "The bad cop was harassing kids", etc. While Monketey was saying "in this situation this is what I would do." Not quite the same thing.
 
plague311 said:
To be honest Monketey, in my humble opinion, it's important for me to know the distance Brown was from Wilson at this point. If he was 50' away, had a bullet it in him already, and was unarmed, it would be hard to tell what I would do. Mind you, I am arm chair quarterbacking here, and in the heat of the moment I'd probably curl into an assball and cry. Then again, I'm a tubby, shorter, white guy from North Dakota.

With that much distance against a wounded individual, it would be possible to pepper spray then go in with a taser if needed. If he was charging and closing ground quickly from 35' or less, then fight or flight would probably take over. I have my gun drawn, he's coming at me quick, the choice is clear. I think people underestimate how difficult it is to hit a moving target with a taser that isn't in point blank range. With a taser, you have to hit them solid as well. A fleeting hit won't cut it, it has to be dead on.
Click to expand...

You know, when I was constructing that hypothetical, I completely forgot to factor in a second individual who could conceivably assist his friend.
 
Mike! said:
Which one's Wilson? And do we know for 100% certainty that ether of them is?
Click to expand...

The guy on the right is Darren Wilson. That's a still shot from the video that one of the witnesses took. Notice that he's taller and thick. He's not a small guy.
 
plague311 said:
I believe Monketey is saying what he would do in that situation, while SG states things from a position of certainty. "The bad cop was harassing kids", etc. While Monketey was saying "in this situation this is what I would do." Not quite the same thing.
Click to expand...

SG is putting herself in the position of the cops and saying that what they did is not SOP by her standards. Monkety is also declaring what those standards should be. It's not as different as you make it sound.
 
Notice that he's taller and thick. He's not a small guy.
Click to expand...
A guy (allegedly) appears in a frame of a blurry video, shot from some distance and perspective, appears maybe to be slightly larger than another guy, who is at a slightly different distance, angle and perspective.

I can see how the Amanda Knox threads went forever. CSI-level genius is participating in these threads.
 
Last edited:
Monketey Ghost said:
You know, when I was constructing that hypothetical, I completely forgot to factor in a second individual who could conceivably assist his friend.
Click to expand...

That is true, and one that isn't located at that. At least I am not sure that Wilson knew where Johnson was at that time since he was in a hiding position. I wonder if that actually entered his mindset.

I keep thinking about this in the way that it happened, extremely quickly. Do you have time to think? Do you have time to evaluate everything as it's happening? Is it just pure instinct at that time?
 
carlitos said:
Yes, but a thinking, skeptical person wouldn't judge by that picture, would they?
Click to expand...

Monkety made a declaration that Brown outweighed Wilson by 100 pounds. Was that the product of a thinking, skeptical person? Do we have any evidence of this? So you ignored that little bit of complete invention in order to chastise me for providing a photo of the person in question and noting that he's taller than the other cop, and obviously not thin?

Your concept of thinking needs work.
 
Polaris said:
If you're talking about that hole above the window, that's not a bullet hole unless the CSI carved the whole thing out of the wall.
Click to expand...

They would have enlarged the hole to recover the fragments. The entry hole would be in the vinyl siding that was removed.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Back
Top Bottom