Michael Brown Shooting

[Unabogie]

Many shots missed, suggesting that he was dazed from a punch to the face, effecting his aim.

Wait, what? He hit six out of ten times at a person who was running away (or if you believe Josie's story, towards him). And since you don't know what his baseline shooting skills are, it seems like you're just making this up out of whole cloth. What if this was the best he ever shot, like ever in his life? What evidence did you use to rule out that possibility?

 

[Lerxst]

Interesting video. Two deputies struggle to contain a suspect, struggle ensues, female officer shoots and kills suspect.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KqdgkGqUW68

This one also went to a grand jury. Of course the two situations are very different, but there are some similarities. Interesting what the grand jury was reported to have said:

The grand jury determined the fatal shooting didn't justify criminal charges, but they want Marion County to change its training procedures, concerned about how quickly that deputy drew her gun.

 

[Ammonitida]

Wait, what? He hit six out of ten times at a person who was running away (or if you believe Josie's story, towards him). And since you don't know what his baseline shooting skills are, it seems like you're just making this up out of whole cloth. What if this was the best he ever shot, like ever in his life? What evidence did you use to rule out that possibility?

He possibly missed four shots at a relatively close range, while four others hit the arm. Two hit the head. Cops are trained to aim at center mass, yet not one shot managed to hit in that area. His aim was awful for a range that close. If you want to wave that off as "he just sucks at shooting", fine, but I'd call that reaching, considering that he's a cop who probably has extensive training in firearms.

Something caused that aim to go off by an incredible margin at such a close range. A punch to the face that dazed him and later caused swelling is likely the reason.

 

[Ammonitida]

Interesting video. Two deputies struggle to contain a suspect, struggle ensues, female officer shoots and kills suspect.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KqdgkGqUW68

This one also went to a grand jury. Of course the two situations are very different, but there are some similarities. Interesting what the grand jury was reported to have said:

Two fat cops vs one skinny unarmed man. The shooting was unjustified, IMO.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Many shots missed, suggesting that he was dazed from a punch to the face, effecting his aim.....

We need an award for the most far fetched claims in the thread.

 

[Howie Felterbush]

A real skeptic would grow 5 inches and buy a Tahoe, just to gather evidence.

Just the other day I got an e-mail from Ron Jeremy on how to achieve this.

Should I forward it to you?

 

[Ammonitida]

We need an award for the most far fetched claims in the thread.

Nah, far fetched is the door punching his face, or Wilson trying to choke Brown through a car window.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

My understanding is that all witnesses who saw that period of time agree on them struggling inside the SUV with Wilson still inside and Brown leaning in the window.

Wilson inside, Brown outside and some kind of physical contact, yes. But Brown leaning in the window? Which witness said that?

I only heard people saying this second hand like the police chief describing reported events.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

... I find that scenario a lot more plausible than one in which someone is running away from a cop shooting at him, decides to stop and taunt the cop, and then charges the cop "like a bull" directly into a hail of bullets.

It sounds more and more ludicrous every time I hear this alleged scenario.

 

[Unabogie]

He possibly missed four shots at a relatively close range, while four others hit the arm. Two hit the head. Cops are trained to aim at center mass, yet not one shot managed to hit in that area. His aim was awful for a range that close. If you want to wave that off as "he just sucks at shooting", fine, but I'd call that reaching, considering that he's a cop who probably has extensive training in firearms.

Something caused that aim to go off by an incredible margin at such a close range. A punch to the face that dazed him and later caused swelling is likely the reason.

Let me repeat for you. YOU HAVE NO IDEA HOW HE NORMALLY SHOOTS. Therefore, your opinions on how he would have shot had he not been injured with an injury you have ZERO EVIDENCE FOR, are completely worthless.



This True Skeptic thing is not for the faint of heart.

 

[Mumbles]

Very much Yes to this. When I heard that audio I thought "Oh, man! That dude is talking to some stripper or some other thing that is TMI!". I'm waiting for the Pro-Wilson crowd to use it to impugn the character of the witness-which is actually only the audio not the person who recorded the audio!

"Oh, my! He was doing what on his phone?"Harumph

I was thinking he had a regular girlfriend, and this is, well, a "jump off", but I can see just regular embarrassment as the reason for posting it anonymously, as well.

OTOH, the two CNN experts are pretty questionable. The only reason they gave to doubt it is "It's those Howard Stern punks!", but this would be a huge step up from the prank calls that they've done for the past decade.

He possibly missed four shots at a relatively close range, while four others hit the arm. Two hit the head. Cops are trained to aim at center mass, yet not one shot managed to hit in that area. His aim was awful for a range that close. If you want to wave that off as "he just sucks at shooting", fine, but I'd call that reaching, considering that he's a cop who probably has extensive training in firearms.

Something caused that aim to go off by an incredible margin at such a close range. A punch to the face that dazed him and later caused swelling is likely the reason.

The number of hits doesn't seem unusual to me, particularly for someone who *just* got out of a car. in fact, I'd be more shocked if every shot hit. That's one reason cops, once they start shooting, don't stop - it's not that hard to miss a few times.

 

[Distracted1]

Wait, what? He hit six out of ten times at a person who was running away (or if you believe Josie's story, towards him). And since you don't know what his baseline shooting skills are, it seems like you're just making this up out of whole cloth. What if this was the best he ever shot, like ever in his life? What evidence did you use to rule out that possibility?

Pretty awesome, actually to be able to strike a person running away six times in the front.

true skeptic, and all.

 

[Newtons Bit]

Pretty awesome, actually to be able to strike a person running away six times in the front.

true skeptic, and all.

I dunno, Michael Brown was pretty heavy, there might have been some sort of gravitational slingshot there...

 

[sadhatter]

Let me repeat for you. YOU HAVE NO IDEA HOW HE NORMALLY SHOOTS. Therefore, your opinions on how he would have shot had he not been injured with an injury you have ZERO EVIDENCE FOR, are completely worthless.



This True Skeptic thing is not for the faint of heart.

So what you are saying is that it is an illogical jump to say that injuries tend to make someone perform worse?

I'm not much of a sports guy, but i believe every professional support has reams of evidence against your claim. And anecdotally, i can say after i was mugged earlier this month, my job performance suffered as a result.

Do you have any evidence to your claim that injuries do not impede performance?

 

[Unabogie]

Pretty awesome, actually to be able to strike a person running away six times in the front.

true skeptic, and all.

Why is this so hard for you to understand? Darren Wilson shot AT Michael Brown a total of eleven times. Six of those shots hit. From the audio, we know that at most, four shots were fired from the front as part of the last volley. Therefore, Darren Wilson hit Michael Brown 5/10 times as he ran away and after he turned around. What the other poster claimed was that this ratio of hits to misses was EVIDENCE of an injury, since if he wasn't injured, he'd have shot MUCH MORE AWESOMELY. I notice that you didn't seem to have a problem with that.

Such skepticism. So very robust.

 

[Ammonitida]

I was thinking he had a regular girlfriend, and this is, well, a "jump off", but I can see just regular embarrassment as the reason for posting it anonymously, as well.

OTOH, the two CNN experts are pretty questionable. The only reason they gave to doubt it is "It's those Howard Stern punks!", but this would be a huge step up from the prank calls that they've done for the past decade.



The number of hits doesn't seem unusual to me, particularly for someone who *just* got out of a car. in fact, I'd be more shocked if every shot hit. That's one reason cops, once they start shooting, don't stop - it's not that hard to miss a few times.

My larger point was that no shot hit center mass. He was way off, with four shots hitting the guy's ARM. Cops are not trained to hit appendages, like arms and heads. But if he just got out of his car after being assaulted and dazed, ...................

 

[Ammonitida]

Let me repeat for you. YOU HAVE NO IDEA HOW HE NORMALLY SHOOTS. Therefore, your opinions on how he would have shot had he not been injured with an injury you have ZERO EVIDENCE FOR, are completely worthless.



This True Skeptic thing is not for the faint of heart.

 

[Unabogie]

So what you are saying is that it is an illogical jump to say that injuries tend to make someone perform worse?

I'm not much of a sports guy, but i believe every professional support has reams of evidence against your claim. And anecdotally, i can say after i was mugged earlier this month, my job performance suffered as a result.

Do you have any evidence to your claim that injuries do not impede performance?

Oh, jeez. Another one. I can only assume that you are trolling me here.

The post I was responding to said this as to why he was taking anger off the table as a reason for Wilson shooting:

Many shots missed, suggesting that he was dazed from a punch to the face, effecting his aim.

Is that reasonable? To take the number of shots missed as evidence of a facial injury? Because to do this, you'd have to know what Wilson normally shoots like, would you not? You'd have to know what other factors played into his aim. Do you seriously not see the problem with that logic?

 

[Mike!]

I dunno, Michael Brown was pretty heavy, there might have been some sort of gravitational slingshot there...

As this YouTube video clearly demonstrates...

 

[Ammonitida]

Oh, jeez. Another one. I can only assume that you are trolling me here.

The post I was responding to said this as to why he was taking anger off the table as a reason for Wilson shooting:



Is that reasonable? To take the number of shots missed as evidence of a facial injury? Because to do this, you'd have to know what Wilson normally shoots like, would you not? You'd have to know what other factors played into his aim. Do you seriously not see the problem with that logic?

The evidence of a facial injury comes from the police chief himself. Unless he's a liar, we know that he was assaulted by Brown before he fired those shots. It's not a leap to say that Wilson's inaccuracy at close range was caused by this injury. He could be a bad shot normally, but since he's a cop with training in firearms, the former is more likely IMO.