Michael Brown Shooting

[Wolrab]

Their skin color.

I have been commenting on the unreliability of eyewitness testimonyaccounts from my first post on page 15 or so. I had no idea what any of the witnesses looked like because on my home tower PC youtube videos always crash. I first saw Johnson was black when I saw the strong arm robbery video on my notebook. I suspected he was black, but didn't know or care.

If this was some white militia related killing, I would still doubt eyewitness accounts, especially if they were friends of the victim, as would you, I suppose.

 

[eeyore1954]

A real skeptic would grow 5 inches and buy a Tahoe, just to gather evidence.

How sit on some phone books and rent a tahoe.

 

[LTC8K6]

I also think that Johnson bolted immediately, took off his dark shirt, and hid.

 

[Skeptic Tank]

Because you are 18, a cop just yelled at you, screeched tires getting back stopping his car right next to you, and grabbed you through his car window then shot at you. You reflexively panic, start to run, realize that was a mistake, and you turn around to surrender.

And that scenario sounds believable to you?

Officer Wilson just decided to convert his police SUV into The Murder Wagon that day? For what reason?

You do realize the scenario you describe portrays Officer Wilson as a cartoonish, raving, murderous maniac right? Screeching up next to some stranger, trying to grab him from a seated position and pull him into/toward his vehicle (totally contrary to police procedures) and then unloading 10 bullets into said stranger why exactly? Because he didn't step lively when told to get out onto the sidewalk?

This scenario would be laughable no matter what officer someone was claiming did it, but I will say the fact that Wilson looks like this:

Makes it even harder for me to imagine.

I'd have an easier time envisioning it if Wilson looked like this guy:

Bald, bulky, and with a "ragey" sort of face. Some cops are like that, the ones who are needlessly loud, angry, etc. I don't think even THOSE cops would do anything remotely like what you describe, but it'd certainly be easier to imagine than Wilson... who looks like he's 14 (and docile for a cop), and doesn't exactly look like he has the sort of physical presence or strength to be trying to pull someone Mike Brown's size anywhere.

You really see that pipsqueak of a cop, in your mind's eye, without backup... without a partner with him... going up against two adults, one of whom is certifiably gargantuan, and trying to rely on his physical strength to achieve anything?

I strongly suspect the same perception I'm referring to when I look at him, which is that he isn't physically intimidating at all... is what Mike Brown perceived, and probably a very large part of why he thought he could avoid responsibility for his strong-arm robbery by overpowering this officer.

 

[Wolrab]

Looking for overhead pics, I found this site.

http://theconservativetreehouse.com...-enhanced-audio-transcription-of-eye-witness/

Lots of important pics there, with north/south orientation. Don't let the site name bias you.

Can you tell how wide the street is?

I also see that the street curves somewhat on either side of the scene. I don't know what the posted speed limit is, but it would certainly deter me from walking down the middle of the road.
THE FOLLOWING IS ANECDOTAL WITH SPECULATION!!! I have seen many cops drive fast on residential streets. If Wilson was going fast responding to the sick person report and distracted by the radio or whatever, rounded the curve and had to abruptly slow down to avoid hitting Brown and Johnson, he may have been pissed off, clouding his judgement and escalating the situation.

 

[Unabogie]

And that scenario sounds believable to you?

Officer Wilson just decided to convert his police SUV into The Murder Wagon that day? For what reason?

You do realize the scenario you describe portrays Officer Wilson as a cartoonish, raving, murderous maniac right?

And yet you have no trouble seeing Brown in this way. You can easily picture Brown going for the gun in attempt to murder Wilson, then doubling back after being shot and charging Wilson in another attempt to murder him. Fascinating.

You really see that pipsqueak of a cop, in your mind's eye, without backup... without a partner with him... going up against two adults, one of whom is certifiably gargantuan, and trying to rely on his physical strength to achieve anything?

On this note, if you look at the video of Wilson after killing Brown, he's standing next to the other cop. He's actually a pretty tall guy. Taller than the cop next to him. Calling him a "pipsqueak" is just something you've made up to buttress your weak, bigoted bias.

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014...ge_galleryImage_Darren_Wilson_pacing_Darr.JPG

 

[Newtons Bit]

I'd have an easier time envisioning it if Wilson looked like this guy:

[qimg]http://i.imgur.com/pWcbyeY.png[/qimg]

Ah yes, Mr. Casually-Commits-Felony-Menacing.

 

[plague311]

Can you tell how wide the street is?

I also see that the street curves somewhat on either side of the scene. I don't know what the posted speed limit is, but it would certainly deter me from walking down the middle of the road.
THE FOLLOWING IS ANECDOTAL WITH SPECULATION!!! I have seen many cops drive fast on residential streets. If Wilson was going fast responding to the sick person report and distracted by the radio or whatever, rounded the curve and had to abruptly slow down to avoid hitting Brown and Johnson, he may have been pissed off, clouding his judgement and escalating the situation.

Wilson was done with the sick person call at the time, he was leaving that scene. As far as I know, he wasn't in a particular rush to get anywhere at the time.

 

[tsig]

And that scenario sounds believable to you?

Officer Wilson just decided to convert his police SUV into The Murder Wagon that day? For what reason?

You do realize the scenario you describe portrays Officer Wilson as a cartoonish, raving, murderous maniac right? Screeching up next to some stranger, trying to grab him from a seated position and pull him into/toward his vehicle (totally contrary to police procedures) and then unloading 10 bullets into said stranger why exactly? Because he didn't step lively when told to get out onto the sidewalk?

This scenario would be laughable no matter what officer someone was claiming did it, but I will say the fact that Wilson looks like this:

[qimg]http://i.imgur.com/3JVn35W.png[/qimg]

Makes it even harder for me to imagine.

I'd have an easier time envisioning it if Wilson looked like this guy:

[qimg]http://i.imgur.com/pWcbyeY.png[/qimg]

Bald, bulky, and with a "ragey" sort of face. Some cops are like that, the ones who are needlessly loud, angry, etc. I don't think even THOSE cops would do anything remotely like what you describe, but it'd certainly be easier to imagine than Wilson... who looks like he's 14 (and docile for a cop), and doesn't exactly look like he has the sort of physical presence or strength to be trying to pull someone Mike Brown's size anywhere.

You really see that pipsqueak of a cop, in your mind's eye, without backup... without a partner with him... going up against two adults, one of whom is certifiably gargantuan, and(1) trying to rely on his physical strength to achieve anything? I strongly suspect the same perception I'm referring to (2)when I look at him, which is that he isn't physically intimidating at all... is what Mike Brown perceived, and probably a very large part of why he thought he could avoid responsibility for his strong-arm robbery by overpowering this officer.

(1)That's why he shot him.

(2)Guilt by appearance, very skeptical.

 

[Skeptic Tank]

And yet you have no trouble seeing Brown in this way. You can easily picture Brown going for the gun in attempt to murder Wilson, then doubling back after being shot and charging Wilson in another attempt to murder him. Fascinating.

 

[Skeptic Tank]

(1)That's why he shot him.

There is a claim of him trying to pull him through the window or at least toward the window with his bare hands.

(2)Guilt by appearance, very skeptical.

When evaluating a claim like I just mentioned, physicality is relevant. It doesn't mean a cop could've over-estimate his or her abilities, or over-estimate how much their authority would inspire compliance... only to have a nasty surprise, but it is still relevant in weighing the probability of such a fantastical scenario.

 

[tsig]

del

 

[Unabogie]

[qimg]http://i.imgur.com/OzrXVwT.gif[/qimg]

And here's Wilson's handiwork. Which is more violent, in your eyes?

 

[This is The End]

When did we find out he tried to take the cop's gun?

We do not know for a fact.

Also, we do know this: If the cop did make a mistake and killed someone without justification, "going for my gun" is 100% absolutely one of the very top things he would claim.

For those who cannot read, I'm not saying that is what happened.

 

[TheL8Elvis]

And yet even the police version says he was shot once by the car and ran away. And even the police version says Wilson followed behind him firing his weapon. All witnesses say he jerked as if shot. My scenario follows all of the known information.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYqrAhpo_w4 Interview with anderson cooper

Michael Brady saw a tussle. Although he says he didn't know Brown, he had "seen him around"

He didn't hear a shot at the car, the first shot was at browns back at least 20 feet away. 1 or 2 shots, and wilson didn't hit brown.

By the time Brady gets outside,brown was facing the officer, hands balled around stomach, halfway. He took one or two steps toward the officer. Brady didn't see a "surrender"

How in the world does all that match what you wrote ???

Why won't you Would anyone who thinks the witness stories match the known facts and each other like to address discrepancies in your scenario and what the witnesses actually say ?

 

[pakeha]

...The whole incident simply makes no sense to me, though.
Why flee down the centre of a roadway from someone firing at you?
Wouldn't you duck between/behind cars or do as Johnson claims to have done?

Because you are 18, a cop just yelled at you, screeched tires getting back stopping his car right next to you, and grabbed you through his car window then shot at you. You reflexively panic, start to run, realize that was a mistake, and you turn around to surrender.

Dunno.
You forgot to mention the intimidation of a shop's assistent to get yourself some cheap cigars and walking down the middle of the street.
Johnson reacted very differently didn't he.

It actually seems like the car Dorian hid behind was Tiffany's.

Then there's this:

From the police chief, august 10th

http://www.ksdk.com/story/news/crim...olice-news-conference-michael-brown/13860601/

Belmar said the incident started when Brown physically assaulted the police officer, pushing him into the officer's vehicle. He said there was a struggle inside the car, and at some point Brown reached for the officer's weapon. One shot was fired inside the vehicle.

 

[LTC8K6]

Okay, in the store robbery video, Johnson is wearing some sort of bracelet on his right wrist.

In the videos of Johnson later at the scene he does not appear to have the bracelet on.

I wonder if that is his bracelet on the ground by the SUV, and not empty brass?

 

[Skeptic Tank]

And here's Wilson's handiwork. Which is more violent, in your eyes?


[qimg]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/imagehosting/thum_567053ff6c099b38e.jpg[/qimg]

I agree, what Wilson did was more violent, or at least more deadly and permanent.

But unlike what Brown did in the store (let alone what he seems to have done to Wilson), there may actually be a legal justification for Wilson shooting Brown.

 

[GWCarver]

Okay, in the store robbery video, Johnson is wearing some sort of bracelet on his right wrist.

In the videos of Johnson later at the scene he does not appear to have the bracelet on.

I wonder if that is his bracelet on the ground by the SUV, and not empty brass?

The bracelet he is wearing in the store looks to be a solid band, and whatever is on the ground looks segmented. Who knows. You certainly get an A for sleuthing.

 

[Upchurch]

But unlike what Brown did in the store (let alone what he seems to have done to Wilson), there may actually be a legal justification for Wilson shooting Brown.

Is there, at this point, any reason to so assume that there was a legal justification? There is now evidence that both Brown and Wilson not only had the capacity for violence, but have actually been violent, with Wilson being fatally violent.

Given that, what reason do you have for viewing Brown as "a cartoonish, raving, murderous maniac" and not Wilson?