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Michael Brown Shooting

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Pepper spray won't 'stop' anyone. It can take as long as 15 minutes for it to start working, depending on the person. I've been directly sprayed twice and cross-contaminated dozens of times in training, and I can fight right through it, no problem. I can also shoot through it.

If you already have a gun in your hand, putting it away and cross-drawing your Taser is going to be an issue, depending on how much time you have before the person gets to you and how much maneuvering room you have. Likewise for drawing and deploying any other intermediate weapon.

I currently carry handgun, Taser, pepper spray, and baton. We bought personal cameras for each officer here but don't use them anymore. The issue for us is storage and treatment of the video. It has to be treated as evidence, at least in our policy. That means it can't be recorded over. Every shift, it has to be downloaded somewhere and that somewhere has to be secured as evidence. This is a problem because the video takes up a lot of 'room' (as in bytes) and the officers live in remote locations without access to the main evidence storage. So, if we give them each, say, an external hard-drive, how is that to be secured so the video is never accessible by them again, each day (which is part of our evidence storage policy)? This is an issue we have yet to resolve, so while buying the cameras was not a problem, the actual video is. I doubt we're the only department to have this issue.
 
GlennB said:
Only if you're Gimli and it's a throwing axe and you're resident in a fantasy movie...

Otherwise they mostly bruise and sometimes make superficial wounds.
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Heh...what a visual! I knew I should have written "can be deadly" but oh well. I also hadn't read the Tueller Drill information; I had no idea how fast a knife wielding person could get to their target.
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
You have all the shots coming in at a perpendicular angle. Brown was 6'4". Unless Wilson was holding his gun over his head, the bullets would be coming from below head level unless Brown was bent at the waist getting down on the ground, aka surrendering.
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Or Brown was bent at the waist getting down on the ground, aka falling. :rolleyes:
 
Still no confirmation about the GatewayPundit eye socket fracture story. I wonder why none of the major news sources are picking up this important story?

Even a search of Fox News doesn't turn up anything on the story.

And the person that tweeted there were dozens of witnesses that Brown attacked Wilson is now on leave from the Tabloid paper, New York Post.

Sorry, I have no idea if any of this is true. It's just off the first Google hit looking for confirmation on the fracture.
http://canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/65412
Christine Byers ✔ @ChristineDByers
Follow
Police sources tell me more than a dozen witnesses have corroborated cop's version of events in shooting #Ferguson

But less than an hour ago (posting this at 2:30 p.m. Eastern Time), this new tweet appeared on Byers’s feed:

Christine Byers ✔ @ChristineDByers
Follow
On FMLA from paper. Earlier tweets did not meet standards for publication.
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Didn't meet standards for a tabloid?:rolleyes:

Correction, she worked for the St. Louis Post-Dispatch.
 
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The Central Scrutinizer said:
Or Brown was bent at the waist getting down on the ground, aka falling. :rolleyes:
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Stumbling, surrendering, tripping, diving (like a football player lunges for an opponents chest to make a tackle), there could be a lot of reasons. The cop probably fired as fast as he could pull the trigger; once he started firing the muscle memory probably kept him firing until there was no more movement - witnesses described all six shots occurring in less than two seconds.
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
You have all the shots coming in at a perpendicular angle. Brown was 6'4". Unless Wilson was holding his gun over his head, the bullets would be coming from below head level unless Brown was bent at the waist getting down on the ground, aka surrendering.

Also, how do you figure they are all fatal? Surely the top one isn't.
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The angle changes as the distance between the barrel of the gun and the top of the head changes.
Geometry, you know.

If you arms standing face to cheats with someone taller than you who is wearing a baseball cap with a logo on the front, you can't see the logo.
Take a step back, and you still can't.
Three steps back and you can see it clearly if he looks down sharply.
From seven steps back, you can not only see the logo, but the little button right in the middle of the beanie part of the hat.

Do you take the report of the bullet striking the top of Mr. Browns' head to mean that it must necessarily have entered going straight down towards the throat?

Bullets don't behave like that once they hit a body. If you need evidence for that just ask yourself how a bullet could exit from Mr. Browns eye if he has no entry wounds from behind.
 
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Skeptic Ginger said:
So Wilson fired two fatal shots at a man after he had tripped?
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I think he did - but not with full intent. He was probably on muscle memory and training at that point, pulling the trigger rapidly until a moment after the threat was clearly reduced.

I mean, at a rapid rate of fire, he could have hit Brown twice in the time it took from when Brown started falling to when he actually hit the ground. Two twitches of the finger takes only a moment.
 
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News:

Grand Jury starts case tomorrow.

78+ were arrested last night. Some from New York are members of The Revolutionary Communist Party. At least 13 people who were arrested were from out of state.
 
Mike! said:
I thought about that when I made it and went with the perpendicular angle, assuming Brown was bent down to some degree, and not knowing how tall Wilson is. Turn the whole thing to the right and change the angle, and the results stay the same for at least 3 of 4.
As to the top shot not being fatal, what do you think the bullet did once it got inside his head, stop? At that angle, it likely rode the back of the skull to the base. Lot's of damage in between.
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I found my mother who literally ate a gun (a 380, and she was late stage terminal cancer with no more than a week left so there was no doubt as to why she did it) and there was no exit wound. The autopsy basically concluded that the brain was scrambled as the bullet whizzed around inside of the skull. Death was pretty much instantaneous and there was surprisingly little blood other than a bit of a mess coming out of the mouth.

Bullets don't always do what you think that they must do. Odd things can happen once they hit flesh and bone, especially the skull which has the best chance of containing it what with it's shape, thickness and all of that watery flesh inside to absorb energy.

I don't know if that applies here but it is something to consider.
 
More clarification
A tweet Monday night by St. Louis Post-Dispatch police reporter Christine Byers has generated a lot of attention online: ..
Byers has been on FMLA leave since March. She is not involved in the Ferguson coverage while she is on leave.

The St. Louis Post-Dispatch did not report the information included in Byers' tweet, either in print or online on STLtoday.com.

Byers has tweeted today in regards to her tweet on Monday:
On FMLA from paper. Earlier tweets did not meet standards for publication.
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IOW, the tweet was strictly personal, unrelated to her reporter position and she was on leave before the tweet not because of the tweet.
 
William Parcher said:
News:

Grand Jury starts case tomorrow.

78+ were arrested last night. Some from New York are members of The Revolutionary Communist Party. At least 13 people who were arrested were from out of state.
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Oh,some RCP idiots, members in good standing of the church of Bob Avakian.

It's a hardcore Maoist group, regarded by most American Marxist as a bad joke,nothing but a personality cult centered around it's leader, Bob Avakian.

The majority of the American Left considers them bad news, guaranteed to wreck a protest. They were a major player in why the Occupy movement fell apart so quickly.

Not at all surprised.
 
crescent said:
Stumbling, surrendering, tripping, diving (like a football player lunges for an opponents chest to make a tackle), there could be a lot of reasons. The cop probably fired as fast as he could pull the trigger; once he started firing the muscle memory probably kept him firing until there was no more movement - witnesses described all six shots occurring in less than two seconds.
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Firing six shots from a semi-automatic pistol doesn't take long at all - about the same time it would take for someone to register that they've been shot and either stumble or double over, putting the head at where center mass would have been just in time for the final shot to enter the skull cap.
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
Still no confirmation about the GatewayPundit eye socket fracture story. I wonder why none of the major news sources are picking up this important story?

Even a search of Fox News doesn't turn up anything on the story.

And the person that tweeted there were dozens of witnesses that Brown attacked Wilson is now on leave from the Tabloid paper, New York Post.

Sorry, I have no idea if any of this is true. It's just off the first Google hit looking for confirmation on the fracture.
http://canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/65412


Didn't meet standards for a tabloid?:rolleyes:

Correction, she worked for the St. Louis Post-Dispatch.
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Same as a tabloid, trust me. :rolleyes:

When I said 'bent over' I was thinking, running. I'm 6'1", when I bend into a semi running position, (part of how I came up with the head angles I used) the top of my head is around 5' or so from the floor, about where my shoulders are. Assuming Wilson is 6', and firing somewhat straight armed, and looking down the sight, I think a fairly perpendicular angle is correct.
 
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Sam.I.Am said:
<snip>
Bullets don't always do what you think that they must do. Odd things can happen once they hit flesh and bone, especially the skull which has the best chance of containing it what with it's shape, thickness and all of that watery flesh inside to absorb energy. I don't know if that applies here but it is something to consider.
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Sorry to hear about your Mother. :(

Yes that's true about bullets. There was a guy in Viet Nam, a buck sergeant, I served with him. His patrol got ambushed and he was shot in the shoulder with an AK round. The bullet deflected, probably off his shoulder blade, went down his back and came out through his buttock. He had two nasty scars, both of which he insisted on showing us. :blush:
 
Family/Maternity Leave of Absence?

I suppose a buddy at the prosecutors office called and told her at home. "Anonymous source", but she wanted to get it out tot eh general public, hence the tweet?
 
If you want to aim, the pistol is at eye level. So the head down sketches, from quite close, would be quite downward.

eta If the last shot was at say 5 feet, Brown would not have had to be looking at the ground. Just bent so head was lower than shoulder high. Say, elbow high. Sound like a tackle about to happen?
 
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