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Michael Brown Shooting

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Skeptic Ginger said:
Is this an alternate universe you refer to?

BTW, the police chief called Wilson a good cop, no problems, and the picture of him getting a commendation has made the same rounds as Brown's robbery video.
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Again, working all the possible angles...

It is entirely possible that Wilson was a good cop up until he killed Brown in cold blood. Just as it is possible he was *both* a really crappy, racist cop who was also attacked by Brown and simply defended himself.

I think people just need to let the investigation play out at this stage. All this CSI-via-the-Internet nonsense isn't helping at all.
 
MattusMaximus said:
For the record, we should be reminded that eye witness testimony is among the worst forms of evidence presentable in court. This also goes for the eye witness testimony allegedly supporting those who claim Brown was shot in cold blood.

Thus, I place little to no value on reports such as these.
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I said that earlier.

These witnesses may have had smartphones, too...

Lots of people do.

Also, perhaps the police found the person talking in the background of that other video, for example.
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
I have a job that requires me to stay calm in emergencies. So do fire fighters. It comes with the territory and training to be able to handle your job.
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Even nurses, fire fighters, cops, and soldiers can simply freak right the hell out in the course of doing their jobs. It happens. Ever heard of PTSD?
 
LTC8K6 said:
I said that earlier.

These witnesses may have had smartphones, too...

Lots of people do.

Also, perhaps the police found the person talking in the background of that other video, for example.
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Now THAT would be something useful; recorded video would be helpful. This is one reason why I'm such a strong advocate for police to have video cameras in their cars or even on their persons (if possible); because it can serve to clear up all the ambiguities in situations such as these.

Eye-witness reports? Not so much.
 
The Central Scrutinizer said:
Of course. Any skeptic would be open to this possibility.

Equally plausible is he was a thug (or not) and the shooting was justified. Any skeptic would be open to this possibility. Non-skeptics struggle with this concept.
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Yep absolutely.

Sometimes this is a critical thinking forum, others it's not. :cool:
 
MattusMaximus said:
Even nurses, fire fighters, cops, and soldiers can simply freak right the hell out in the course of doing their jobs. It happens. Ever heard of PTSD?
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Can, sure, but if it's in the course of one's job, one is expected to manage it. Think about it if you thought firefighters and emergency and ICU personnel couldn't stay calm on the job?

Believe me, they could be charged with negligence under circumstances where a death resulted because the worker panicked.
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
Can, sure, but if it's in the course of one's job, one is expected to manage it. Think about it if you thought firefighters and emergency and ICU personnel couldn't stay calm on the job?

Believe me, they could be charged with negligence under circumstances where a death resulted because the worker panicked.
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And that is exactly what happens sometimes. Sometimes, under the stress of an extreme situation, they can crack; and when that happens, a ****-storm can come down upon them.

I fail to see how we're in disagreement here :confused:
 
MattusMaximus said:
.... Eye-witness reports? Not so [as] much.
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ftfy

We all know the problems with eye witness testimony. One of the three main witnesses is losing cred as she keeps talking, the friend of the victim can be expected to tell a bit of a self serving version. But one witness is very credible and there are enough consistent points between the three to add weight to the accounts and pull some evidence from them.
 
Cain said:
A lot of people missed this really amazing post (the first one, so far as I can tell, to give "Josie's" account), which is consistent with what witness said at the scene, transcribed in the link below).
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That was presented days ago.
Seems pretty compelling to me, but it has been discounted here as not coming from a "real"
witness.
Still counts as evidence that Mr. Brown was not" executed " in cold blood.
 
MattusMaximus said:
Even nurses, fire fighters, cops, and soldiers can simply freak right the hell out in the course of doing their jobs. It happens. Ever heard of PTSD?
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I thought PTSD comes after a traumatic event. Are you saying it happens during the event (Wilson interaction with Brown)?
 
We have one data point: a sketch from a preliminary autopsy report.
We have stories and anecdotes and rumors of other data points.

Before we start asserting that the slope of the line must be positive or must be negative, we could wait for more data points. A forensic report about the car's interior. A final autopsy report. A forensic report about the dead man's clothes (looking for powder marks). An official statement from Wilson. An official statement from the local police.

We could wait for those things, or we could spend another 50 pages bickering.


..................
I think the most fitting thing for me to do is quote the last line of Mark Twain's "War Prayer."
It was believed afterward that the man was a lunatic, because there was no sense in what he said.​
 
MattusMaximus said:
And that is exactly what happens sometimes. Sometimes, under the stress of an extreme situation, they can crack; and when that happens, a ****-storm can come down upon them.

I fail to see how we're in disagreement here :confused:
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Only in that I thought you were excusing and normalizing it as others in the thread are. As if it was OK to panic because the job can be expected to have moments like this.

I'm not saying I'm surprised Wilson lost control, if he did. I'm saying the job requires he remain in control in situations like this. If he didn't, it's negligence.
 
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Distracted1 said:
That was presented days ago.
Seems pretty compelling to me, but it has been discounted here as not coming from a "real"witness.
Still counts as evidence that Mr. Brown was not" executed " in cold blood.
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Nope, more straw.

I've not read anyone discounting it because it was third hand, only that that means we shouldn't assume it is accurate.

I've only seen pointing out where it is inconsistent with the autopsy, the witness accounts, and the suggestion it sounds like it exaggerates Brown's threat.
 
newyorkguy said:
Probably everyone who has been arrested in that area since Saturday has been asked:

  • Detective: You see the shooting the other day?
  • Perp: Huh?
  • Detective: You want to help yourself out?
  • Perp: Huh?
  • Detective: You see the black kid charge the police car?
  • Perp: What black kid?
  • Detective: You want to help yourself out?
  • Perp: Oh! You mean...Yeah I was there. Sure was.
  • Detective: Okay. You help us we help you.
  • Perp: Yeah that brother was acting all crazy man.

:D
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Is it some sort of rules violation to call you out on that obvious prejudice against policemen?

TuQuoque I guess to say something like:
Probably going through the heads of everyone who saw Mr. Brown charge officer Wilson
" I'm not saying anything, if I do, after the police are gone those thugs will kill me "
 
Caper said:
I think you found your calling.
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I hear you can make good money writing convoluted prose on the internet, but I don't know how I'm supposed to work Sony's next movie into a diatribe on institutional power dynamics.

Skeptic Ginger said:
Is this an alternate universe you refer to?


BTW, the police chief called Wilson a good cop, no problems, and the picture of him getting a commendation has made the same rounds as Brown's robbery video.
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Wilson wasn't one of the officers arresting reporters in a McDonald's.
 
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