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Michael Brown Shooting

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Skeptic Tank said:
Only winner here is the media.
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As far as I'm concerned the media imperiled it's credibility yet again. No matter what occurred it wasn't covered very well by the established print and ether outlets, I've not seen anything outside clips posted to this thread from TV though.
 
LTC8K6 said:
I think the nipple wound probably caused Brown to fall. A bullet or fragment reached the heart?
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Oh for Pete's sake. The autopsy said the head wounds were the fatal wounds. Now you are imagining with no evidence whatsoever that there was a heart wound?

Can you please stick to the actual evidence?
 
GWCarver said:
The cowardly gangsters in the area found out the police were taking a mostly passive approach and they could hide among the protesters, so they came in to cause trouble, which is really what they do on a daily basis anyway. The police are going to have to clear the streets to restore order, IMO, which is probably why the National Guard is being called in. I'm not sure putting soldiers on the mean streets of Ferguson is the right thing to do, but we'll just have to wait and see. There really aren't too many options here.
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This is a military police unit, right?

I hope.
 
LTC8K6 said:
Have you seen the pic of the body on the ground?

There's a lot of blood.

I would think it has to be on the shirt.
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Stick to the actual autopsy evidence please, not fuzzy images of a shirt you cannot actually see a clear view of.

We're past this imaginary scenario. One autopsy report has been released. Try to keep up.
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
Oh I don't think it's that hard to understand.

You want to preserve your narrative regardless of the autopsy evidence. You are unwilling to say ahead of time what autopsy evidence would change your mind. Instead you wait for the evidence to give yourself time to fit that evidence into you pre-existing narrative.
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Well, wounds to his back would have been something which had me more open to the idea that the officer shot Brown down when he didn't have to, though they wouldn't have in and of themselves been enough to completely demonstrate that. That ship has sailed, obviously.

Even if it could be proven to me that he'd had his hands up, who's to say that couldn't have been in the same way as that California high speed chase guy who shot his hands up in a surrender posture for just a split second as the final bullets were hitting him? Bullets which had essentially already been committed to by the officers. Have to factor in reaction times, etc.

Honestly, if the officer's orbital socket bone was really broken, as I'm hearing people saying it was... if that's confirmed, or any sort of injury to his head is confirmed, and now in light of no injuries to the back... seriously I am having a hard time imagining what findings at this point could get me thinking the officer needs to go away for murder or manslaughter.

That's either because I'm horribly biased, or because the facts of the situation just don't support such a scenario.

Between what the autopsy looks to be consistent with, what the officer claimed (via his friend on the radio show telling his story, plus the police statement early on) + the people in the background of the video seeming to say that Brown had charged at him... I'd say there's at least enough here to feel that the officer's version of events is at least a very strong contender for what happened. And when those facial injuries are documented, especially if there are photos? Game over.

May as well just come out now and say he isn't being charged with anything, so we can get those riots folded into the current ones rather than having a whole second set of riots later.
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
"Blood on the shirt" ≠ blood spatter on the shirt consistent with the arms being down when the arm wounds occurred.

I'm pretty sure blood spatter evidence is more specific than just "blood on the shirt."

Go ahead, put your money where your mouth is. What blood spatter evidence would tell you Brown's arms were raised when at least three of those wounds occurred (allowing for one wound through the car window)?

I'm willing to accept blood spatter evidence the arms were down when the bullets hit Brown's arm if that's what is found.
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I was trying to say that the blood spatter evidence would be obliterated by the larger leaking blood stains on the shirt.

IOW, there won't be any useful blood spatter evidence on the shirt.
 
Cylinder said:
Tin soldiers and Nixon coming,
We're finally on our own.
This summer I hear the drumming,
Four dead in Ohio.
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I love Neil Young. Did you know he supported Reagan? Or at least didn't hate him as much as he was supposed to! :p

Perhaps this is just wishful thinking, but in one sense this probably isn't that much different than the original response, some of those police were probably Guardsmen and they were using similar equipment it seemed.
 
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Skeptic Tank said:
...Honestly, if the officer's orbital socket bone was really broken, as I'm hearing people saying it was... if that's confirmed, or any sort of injury to his head is confirmed, and now in light of no injuries to the back... seriously I am having a hard time imagining what findings at this point could get me thinking the officer needs to go away for murder or manslaughter.

That's either because I'm horribly biased, or because the facts of the situation just don't support such a scenario.

Between what the autopsy looks to be consistent with, what the officer claimed (via his friend on the radio show telling his story, plus the police statement early on) + the people in the background of the video seeming to say that Brown had charged at him... I'd say there's at least enough here to feel that the officer's version of events is at least a very strong contender for what happened. And when those facial injuries are documented, especially if there are photos? Game over.

May as well just come out now and say he isn't being charged with anything, so we can get those riots folded into the current ones rather than having a whole second set of riots later.
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Can you link to reports of the police officer's injuries?
 
Cylinder said:
Following coordinated attacks on civilians and law enforcement, Governor Nixon signs executive order directing Missouri National Guard resources to Ferguson
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"I join the people of Ferguson, and all Missourians, in strongly condemning this criminal activity that included firing upon law enforcement officers, shooting a civilian, throwing Molotov cocktails, looting, and a coordinated attempt to block roads and overrun the Unified Command Center."​

Huh? This sounds like the Paris mob rising. Who's doing this? Gangs?

'Protesters?'
 
shuize said:
Can you link to reports of the police officer's injuries?
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Well the very early statement that we've all seen from the Chief or whatever mentioned "facial injuries" so I assume you've seen that.

As for the additional detail of the orbital socket being broken? All I can tell you is I've seen it mentioned multiple times in multiple locations around the net.

Might be BS, but mind you I had also heard about Brown robbing the store several days before that revelation hit the media with the video and what not, in exactly the same way.
 
For all of you that gave me crap for my earlier comments:

FERGUSON, Mo. — Michael Brown, the unarmed black teenager who was killed by a police officer, sparking protests around the nation, was shot at least six times, including twice in the head, a preliminary private autopsy performed on Sunday found.
One of the bullets entered the top of Mr. Brown’s skull, suggesting his head was bent forward when it struck him and caused a fatal injury, according to Dr. Michael M. Baden, the former chief medical examiner for the City of New York, who flew to Missouri on Sunday at the family’s request to conduct the separate autopsy. It was likely the last of bullets to hit him, he said.

Yes, he was shot in the head, twice. Let the back peddling begin.
 
KatieG said:
For all of you that gave me crap for my earlier comments:

FERGUSON, Mo. — Michael Brown, the unarmed black teenager who was killed by a police officer, sparking protests around the nation, was shot at least six times, including twice in the head, a preliminary private autopsy performed on Sunday found.
One of the bullets entered the top of Mr. Brown’s skull, suggesting his head was bent forward when it struck him and caused a fatal injury, according to Dr. Michael M. Baden, the former chief medical examiner for the City of New York, who flew to Missouri on Sunday at the family’s request to conduct the separate autopsy. It was likely the last of bullets to hit him, he said.

Yes, he was shot in the head, twice. Let the back peddling begin.
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Yes, the officer's last two rounds probably hit Brown as he fell, creating the "downward" angles to the head shots.
 
KatieG said:
Yes, he was shot in the head, twice. Let the back peddling begin.
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Got any reason to believe this wasn't caused by him stumbling forward and his head entering the path of fire his chest and arm had previously occupied, as he charged toward his victim, Officer Wilson, for a second attempt on his life?

Also, please keep in mind that police are trained to fire numerous shots, and fire until the target goes down.
 
marplots said:
How many shots did Owens fire?

He still might have shot at Brown from the back, but missed. The witnesses might still be accurately telling what they saw. On the other hand, if all the bullets are accounted for (in the car or producing wounds), then that argues for front-only shooting.

Does anyone know how the count matches up?
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The officers name is Darren WILSON. Do try to keep up with the basic facts, please.
 
cornsail said:
The simplest answer is that he was shot at while he was running, but the shots missed. @TheePharoah, for instance, didn't claim that he was actually shot in the back, he just claimed that two shots were fired when his back was turned. As for Johnson thinking he was hit, that's an easy mistake to make.
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There is evidence of 6 shots. How many bullets does the officer have, in your fantasy world?
 
Dr. Baden provided a diagram of the entry wounds, and noted that the six shots produced numerous wounds. Some of the bullets entered and exited several times, including one that left at least five different wounds.

“This one here looks like his head was bent downward,” he said, indicating the wound at the very top of Mr. Brown’s head. “It can be because he’s giving up, or because he’s charging forward at the officer.”

He stressed that his information does not assign blame or justify the shooting.
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Or because the shots hit as Brown was falling.

Quote is from NYT article.
 
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