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Oscar Pistorius shoots girlfriend

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Samson said:
In reply to you and Puppycow, a god's eye view ascertains malice or mistake. For malice there is no redemption for Oscar, other than act in haste and repent at leisure.
But I feel sorry for him if the tortured history of the republic had a part to play in this tragedy, and he thought he was protecting, not killing his flame.
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Makes no difference where you live,there was no threat behind a closed door,and no sensible person(so that rules out OP)would just shoot and ask questions later.
 
Azrael 5 said:
Makes no difference where you live,there was no threat behind a closed door,and no sensible person(so that rules out OP)would just shoot and ask questions later.
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Tell that to my south african friend who was shot (and almost killed) by home intruders through a door.

That doesn't mean I don't think Oscar's actions (if you believe his story) were at best stupid and irresponsible, but knowing people who have been shot without warning by intruders, I have some sympathy for the possibility.
 
MontagK505 said:
The evidence and his own testimony shows he shot her through a closed door. The prosecution makes the claim that it makes no difference to the law whether or not Oscar knew who was behind the door. Morally some people might see a difference. One is stupidity and the other is malice.
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The prosecution makes that claim, but the defence disputes it pretty strongly with reference to other cases. I don't think it's at all clear-cut.

I do think that's the only way he's going to be found guilty of murder, though - if the judge decides it was murder even if he didn't realize it was Reeva. The prosecution hasn't come close to proving he knew it was her (failure to explain why there were two sets of shots, failure to give any alternative to the defence timeline according to which Reeva couldn't have screamed, etc).
 
katy_did said:
The prosecution makes that claim, but the defence disputes it pretty strongly with reference to other cases. I don't think it's at all clear-cut.

I do think that's the only way he's going to be found guilty of murder, though - if the judge decides it was murder even if he didn't realize it was Reeva. The prosecution hasn't come close to proving he knew it was her (failure to explain why there were two sets of shots, failure to give any alternative to the defence timeline according to which Reeva couldn't have screamed, etc).
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Since only Oscar knows the truth, the prosecution's apparent tactic has been to destroy Oscar's credibility as a witness. The actual evidence supports either story. My guess, is Oscar will likely get the SA equivalent of manslaughter.
 
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icerat said:
Tell that to my south african friend who was shot (and almost killed) by home intruders through a door.

That doesn't mean I don't think Oscar's actions (if you believe his story) were at best stupid and irresponsible, but knowing people who have been shot without warning by intruders, I have some sympathy for the possibility.
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Was the intruder hiding behind a bathroom door in his own house?
 
icerat said:
Tell that to my south african friend who was shot (and almost killed) by home intruders through a door.
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If that's the sort of thing you are worried about, then you don't stand in front of the door the intruder, who is possibly going to shoot you, is hiding behind.
 
bonzombiekitty said:
If that's the sort of thing you are worried about, then you don't stand in front of the door the intruder, who is possibly going to shoot you, is hiding behind.
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If he's to believed, he wasn't, he was back at the entrance to the bathroom. Ballistics apparently supported his story,
 
icerat said:
If he's to believed, he wasn't, he was back at the entrance to the bathroom. Ballistics apparently supported his story,
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Defence suggest this means he didnt know it was Reeva and didnt intend to kill whomever.
 
As a South African (who doesn't live in one of the more expensive security estates in the country) I find his behavior bizarre personally. I am not a gun owner, so I'm not exactly sure how I would react in a similar situation if I had a weapon but I wouldn't attempt to confront an intruder in my own home and I would definitely first ascertain where my girlfriend (in my case - wife) is.
 
DarthFishy said:
As a South African (who doesn't live in one of the more expensive security estates in the country) I find his behavior bizarre personally. I am not a gun owner, so I'm not exactly sure how I would react in a similar situation if I had a weapon but I wouldn't attempt to confront an intruder in my own home and I would definitely first ascertain where my girlfriend (in my case - wife) is.
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Ah, but you're not a world famous para-athlete who apparently suffered years of teasing as a child which has left you in a permanently anxious state (or something :rolleyes:)
 
DarthFishy said:
As a South African (who doesn't live in one of the more expensive security estates in the country) I find his behavior bizarre personally. I am not a gun owner, so I'm not exactly sure how I would react in a similar situation if I had a weapon but I wouldn't attempt to confront an intruder in my own home and I would definitely first ascertain where my girlfriend (in my case - wife) is.
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You maybe are missing a crucial point DarthFishy, gun owners crave to use the suckers. Oscar could save his girlfriend and be in a reality gunfight.
 
Samson said:
You maybe are missing a crucial point DarthFishy, gun owners crave to use the suckers. Oscar could save his girlfriend and be in a reality gunfight.
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You make a good point. A lot of South African gun owners that a do know (I mean a lot of the gun owners I know, not a lot of gun owners in general) tell similar-ish stories of defending their homes against intruders.

The rampant paranoia amongst white South Africans is just a bit weird for me. You are much safer in a traditionally white neighbourhood than in a traditionally black neighbourhood and definitely much safer in an Estate like Silver Lakes.

I used to live (with my parents) in a similar estate about 10km away from Silver Lakes and we were personally pretty lax about security. Our gate was always open, no bars on the windows (and there were a lot of windows) and if we were at home the doors would regularly be unlocked.

From what I've read about Oscar's house on the night of the shooting it seems he had a similarly lax approach to security. So that attitude and his supposed paranoia isn't really convincing for me.
 
DarthFishy said:
You make a good point. A lot of South African gun owners that a do know (I mean a lot of the gun owners I know, not a lot of gun owners in general) tell similar-ish stories of defending their homes against intruders.

The rampant paranoia amongst white South Africans is just a bit weird for me. You are much safer in a traditionally white neighbourhood than in a traditionally black neighbourhood and definitely much safer in an Estate like Silver Lakes.

I used to live (with my parents) in a similar estate about 10km away from Silver Lakes and we were personally pretty lax about security. Our gate was always open, no bars on the windows (and there were a lot of windows) and if we were at home the doors would regularly be unlocked.

From what I've read about Oscar's house on the night of the shooting it seems he had a similarly lax approach to security. So that attitude and his supposed paranoia isn't really convincing for me.
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Aha, a lax attitude until the real thing was present, and the first thought may be, what breaches to the security of the home and the safety of the love of my life have I carelessly allowed?
Context and precedent so greatly supports tragic misjudgement in a dangerous country.
Would not deliberate rage mean pointblank face on to the door?
Anyway, the judge has decided it was mistaken identity, unless I end up completely redfaced. :o
 
Samson said:
Aha, a lax attitude until the real thing was present, and the first thought may be, what breaches to the security of the home and the safety of the love of my life have I carelessly allowed?
Context and precedent so greatly supports tragic misjudgement in a dangerous country.
Would not deliberate rage mean pointblank face on to the door?
Anyway, the judge has decided it was mistaken identity, unless I end up completely redfaced. :o
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I do agree that this is probably the most rational viewpoint of the facts so far but I will admit my personal bias leans towards an argument with Reeva and a crime of passion resulting from that argument.
 
lionking said:
Where did you get this from? I have been following the trial and I haven't read that the judge has made such a decision.
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I watched as Nel summed up. I will bet against an Aussie,
Eta I mean I bet she has decided from watching her questions and challenges to Nel.
 
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lionking said:
Ah, she hasn't decided. Thanks for the clarification. :rolleyes:
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She has decided.
I say that with certainty, because otherwise she is still reading tea leaves.
Hellmann had decided.
Nencini had decided.
This is how things are.
Decisions are made, yet a measure of apparent neutrality is demanded by the protocols, yet the signals precede the decision (not always)
 
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