Continuation Part Nine: Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito

[CoulsdonUK]

Does anyone know whether an appeal has been lodged with the European Court of Human Rights (ECHR) relating to Amanda’s slander conviction? Assuming one has been lodged does anyone know whether ECHR have ruled that here is a case to be heard?

 

[Samson]

Does anyone know whether an appeal has been lodged with the European Court of Human Rights (ECHR) relating to Amanda’s slander conviction? Assuming one has been lodged does anyone know whether ECHR have ruled that here is a case to be heard?

Lodged not ruled I am sure.
The question of course is whether it is an ankle tap for the Italian lust for Amanda.

 

[CoulsdonUK]

Lodged not ruled I am sure.
The question of course is whether it is an ankle tap for the Italian lust for Amanda.

Not really; the question is whether there is actually a case to be heard.

Isn't there any Italian lust for Raffaele?

 

[Desert Fox]

Not really; the question is whether there is actually a case to be heard.

Isn't there any Italian lust for Raffaele?

"Why do I feel like the invisible man"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=69PN-AkJids

 

[Samson]

Not really; the question is whether there is actually a case to be heard.

Isn't there any Italian lust for Raffaele?

Of course there is a case to be heard Coulsdon, the Italian Supreme court ruled the interrogation inadmissible and Mignini and Massei kidnapped her and destroyed her life without batting an eyelid regardless.

Is Raffaele's woman friend Italian?

 

[CoulsdonUK]

Of course there is a case to be heard Coulsdon, the Italian Supreme court ruled the interrogation inadmissible and Mignini and Massei kidnapped her and destroyed her life without batting an eyelid regardless.

Is Raffaele's woman friend Italian?

My recollections defers to yours inasmuch that the Italian Supreme Court ruled that one of Amanda’s written statements was ruled as inadmissible, this has been discussed so many many times here.

I have absolutely no interest in Raffaele or Amanda’s current private life.

"Why do I feel like the invisible man"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=69PN-AkJids

Erm, noted.

 

[Samson]

My recollections defers to yours inasmuch that the Italian Supreme Court ruled that one of Amanda’s written statements was ruled as inadmissible, this has been discussed so many many times here.

I have absolutely no interest in Raffaele or Amanda’s current private life.


Erm, noted.

You are stoic. How about Casey Anthony's?

 

[CoulsdonUK]

You are stoic. How about Casey Anthony's?

If I wanted to comment about Casey Anthony or any other social issue I would comment in the appropriate thread.

I specially wanted to know whether Amanda’s s slander conviction appeal to the ECHR had reached or indeed passed the first hurdle in the process, I hope others might be in a position to provide further comment.

 

[Samson]

If I wanted to comment about Casey Anthony or any other social issue I would comment in the appropriate thread.

I specially wanted to know whether Amanda’s s slander conviction had reached or indeed passed the first hurdle in the ECHR process, I hope others might be in a position to provide further comment.

You have been around a lot longer than me, so you must know that passing that hurdle would ignite a firestorm here.

I would like to confer relevance on my Casey Anthony question.

OJ Simpson was guilty and acquitted by a jury.
Casey Anthony handled the dead body of her child, failed to mention it,and was acquitted by a jury of involvement in her death.
Allegedly Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito killed a young woman but were acquitted by a judge and jury.

To declare absolutely no interest in their social wellbeing is highly insulting to them and suggests you think they are killers roaming free.

 

[CoulsdonUK]

You have been around a lot longer than me, so you must know that passing that hurdle would ignite a firestorm here.

I would like to confer relevance on my Casey Anthony question.

OJ Simpson was guilty and acquitted by a jury.
Casey Anthony handled the dead body of her child, failed to mention it,and was acquitted by a jury of involvement in her death.
Allegedly Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito killed a young woman but were acquitted by a judge and jury.

To declare absolutely no interest in their social wellbeing is highly insulting to them and suggests you think they are killers roaming free.

I made no mention of their wellbeing as you have stated, I said I have no interest in their private lives, as in their private life should be just that, private! I have included my original post for accuracy.

My recollections defers to yours inasmuch that the Italian Supreme Court ruled that one of Amanda’s written statements was ruled as inadmissible, this has been discussed so many many times here.

I have absolutely no interest in Raffaele or Amanda’s current private life.

 

[Chris_Halkides]

The genesis of the knife prick story vs the profile itself

Actually it is. . . .When evidence indicates something crazy, your brain is going to hunt for some rationalization. Kind of like how you rationalize just about everything the Italian court does. You cannot accept that your legal system is railroading innocent people. Therefore you come up with reasons why you think they are guilty.

On pp. 91-92 Raffaele describes a time when he was cooking at the women's flat and something similar actually did happen. But it was of course not the same knife, and this paragraph in Honor Bound concludes with, "There was no possible connection." A lengthier excerpt was quoted in these threads.

This whole discussion started with what is in my opinion a red herring. Raffaele's words cannot turn an absurd DNA result into a good one, any more than his words could do the opposite. The final chapter of Dr. Peter Gill’s 2014 book Misleading DNA Evidence is a discussion of the murder of Meredith Kercher and the DNA evidence against Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito. With respect to the low template DNA profile of Meredith Kercher that the prosecution attributed to Raffaele Sollecito’s knife, Dr. Gill wrote, “…this is the kind of profile I would expect to observe, if it had originated from a contamination event.”

 

[Chris_Halkides]

the unlawful seizure of his diary

Does any one know if Raffaele was in solitary confinement when they told him Meredith's blood was on his knife? What is the regime for solitary confinement in Italy? What does a day consist of?

On p. 85 of Honor Bound it says that he was in solitary after the Matteini ruling. He was in solitary for several months. At one point he was keeping a diary but he gave it to one of his lawyers. Some prison employees seized it. The lawyer complained and got it back, but apparently not before someone photocopied a few pages, including the knife story, and leaked it (pp. 107-108). Strange how PG commenters never tell this part of the story.
EDT
I see that griffinmill did at least acknowledge that the diary was taken. I agree with Kaosium, but it also seems to me that taking the diary from his lawyer is interfering with lawyer-client privilege (which I would hope works in Italy more or less as it does elsewhere).

 

[Samson]

I made no mention of their wellbeing as you have stated, I said I have no interest in their private lives, as in their private life should be just that, private! I have included my original post for accuracy.

I certainly don't wish to nitpick, and this is a digression. I am personally intrigued by all elements of the case, so the idea of having absolutely no interest in the private lives of the protagonists makes no sense, when the hate sites behave like vultures. Indeed your interest in Amanda's appeal to the ECHR belies your claim to disinterest. However, maybe you were being respectful of what remnant of privacy they may enjoy

 

[Samson]

On p. 85 of Honor Bound it says that he was in solitary after the Matteini ruling. He was in solitary for several months. At one point he was keeping a diary but he gave it to one of his lawyers. Some prison employees seized it. The lawyer complained and got it back, but apparently not before someone photocopied a few pages, including the knife story, and leaked it (pp. 107-108). Strange how PG commenters never tell this part of the story.

Thank you Chris, better elucidation than I expected. I have read no books (yet), many of my questions would be unnecessary. Griffinmill and others should do some thought experiments.
ETA, it occurs to me that I should read both books now, as I would expect them to be extremely accurate.

 

[Diocletus]

Does anyone know whether an appeal has been lodged with the European Court of Human Rights (ECHR) relating to Amanda’s slander conviction? Assuming one has been lodged does anyone know whether ECHR have ruled that here is a case to be heard?

Yeah, she filed an appeal. No one knows whether it's been transmitted to the offending nation yet, but it's probably too early for that to have occurred anyway (look for that to happen Q4 2014 or Q1/Q2 2015).

No one has seen the appeal, but it appears to deal with pretrial rights violations, e.g., taking statements from a "suspect" in the absence of counsel, continuing failure to allow access to counsel, failure to provide a legitimate interpreter, etc. I guess it would also include hitting a suspect and maybe consular assistance. Just think of her as an Irish guy arrested by UK police and you'll get the gist (well, except for the interpreter part).

 

[CoulsdonUK]

I certainly don't wish to nitpick, and this is a digression. I am personally intrigued by all elements of the case, so the idea of having absolutely no interest in the private lives of the protagonists makes no sense, when the hate sites behave like vultures. Indeed your interest in Amanda's appeal to the ECHR belies your claim to disinterest. However, maybe you were being respectful of what remnant of privacy they may enjoy

Noted!

 

[CoulsdonUK]

Yeah, she filed an appeal. No one knows whether it's been transmitted to the offending nation yet, but it's probably too early for that to have occurred anyway (look for that to happen Q4 2014 or Q1/Q2 2015).

No one has seen the appeal, but it appears to deal with pretrial rights violations, e.g., taking statements from a "suspect" in the absence of counsel, continuing failure to allow access to counsel, failure to provide a legitimate interpreter, etc. I guess it would also include hitting a suspect and maybe consular assistance. <snip>

Thank you, the only European institution that moves slower than the Italian justice system.

 

[Bill Williams]

Thank you, the only European institution that moves slower than the Italian justice system.

Justice delayed is justice denied for both victim and accused.

 

[anglolawyer]

An axiom is an axiom, not a contention.
I am saying your deduction was patently false and illogical. On the other hand, what I say does not fall into the dicothomies of your "logic".
And I am saying precisely what I am saying - and have always said btw -that is DNA itself, taken alone, is not evidence (and in fact a discussion about alleles and DNA quality should be of Limited interest). Evidence is a logical concept not a physical finding. A date can be attributed to DNA finding, indeed; but it cannot be deduced by the finding of DNA material itself.
You need information of other kind. Might include crossing with other findings but I guess that in order to deduce a date you need information from other parameters of reality.

Obviously the bra clasp finding is not just DNA material, like any DNA evidence it's something that entails much more information than just the identity of the profile. The piece of information is tightly bound to a context. We know a lot about this subject, who he is, how many times she entered the room on what dates how many traces he left the tapistry of other evidence etc. The information connected to this piece is huge. And the most important is the absence of a plausible contamination path within it, the lack of an alternative probable explanation.

Part of the surrounding information is that we have only the word of an incompetent liar that there ever was anything on the clasp in the first place. Stefanoni claimed to have conducted an unrepeatable test knowing that in due course all traces of her deceit would be erased. You yourself explained that, Mschiavelli, when you told us all data arising from such tests must be destroyed by law. The discussion of exhibits 36B and 165B is unreal IMO. There is no evidence that either bore any relevant forensic traces.

 

[acbytesla]

Sorry acbytesla, I recalled a determination but I could be wrong, and not my business of course, but part of the rich tapestry of the case is to have some sociological profile of those who would deprive people of liberty, to do so is an act of the greatest aggression.
Amazons?

You may be right Samson, no need to apologize..Now I'm confused about Griffin's sex. Or probably was. Griffin seems more like a male name to me..but it really doesn't have to be I guess.

Take it easy.